Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Here you go, relevant information starts at about 2 minutes, 30 seconds in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAzwiU8-7hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAzwiU8-7hc
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We are all just doomed..... Obamacare
- Thread starter HGFarm
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Minimor
Well-Known Member
sorry to disagree and burst your bubble, but I must point out that I had the exact same surgery, all necessary tests beforehand...in Canada...and I had a wait time of less than two weeks between diagnosis and surgery. As an added beneft I did NOT get sent home with chest tubes still in place. So yes, I can say with absolute certainty that you would have received equally good care--perhaps better care--in Canada!!!
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tagalong
Well-Known Member
So John Stossel on Fox News is pushing the fact that only Republicans/those on the right are charitable and giving etc, etc. etc. Considering that such polls only reflect small percentages of the total, and mulitple polls/surveys often disagree with each other, one can basically pick and choose the "results" as one pleases. Charity is an INDIVIDUAL thing and not determined by your political preferences or party or what news channel you watch... it is also not something you should be waving around as a banner to show how "good" you are. IMO that diminishes the sincerity of the act...
Shame on you, minimor - for sharing first hand facts/truth and not myths...
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I'm not saying this country is in serious need of a change in health care, but I dont think this is the answer. Why dont they clamp down on what the drug companies are charging people for meds? Especially when you can buy the same thing for PENNIES on the dollar in another country. Some of even over the counter. It's all about control and greed by the drug companies/insurance companies. It's not about saving lives and bettering people's lives.
Crack down- stop allowing insurance companies to reject people for health issues or pre existing conditions. They all need to stay out of the decision making MY DOCTOR has made and stay out of my bank account by allowing 'future transfers'. And the option that people are going to be fined if they can't afford insurance? How is that going to help? If they cant afford the cost of insurance, how are they going to afford a fine?!
Stop providing health care to illegals! Instead, provide that for the folks here who are destitute or dont have insurance (regardless of the reason- no job, cant afford, etc...) They cost this country 113 BILLION dollars a year.
Nobody has still responded regarding who is paying for all this, how the demand for more medical staffing is going to be met? It's already short now, just wait- and that is why you will take 6 months to get an appt to see anyone.
Crack down- stop allowing insurance companies to reject people for health issues or pre existing conditions. They all need to stay out of the decision making MY DOCTOR has made and stay out of my bank account by allowing 'future transfers'. And the option that people are going to be fined if they can't afford insurance? How is that going to help? If they cant afford the cost of insurance, how are they going to afford a fine?!
Stop providing health care to illegals! Instead, provide that for the folks here who are destitute or dont have insurance (regardless of the reason- no job, cant afford, etc...) They cost this country 113 BILLION dollars a year.
Nobody has still responded regarding who is paying for all this, how the demand for more medical staffing is going to be met? It's already short now, just wait- and that is why you will take 6 months to get an appt to see anyone.
tagalong
Well-Known Member
HGF - it does not take 6 months to get an appointment to see a doctor in Canada any more than it will here - depending on the doctor and the speciality and a host of other factors. My mom literally lives in the Back of Beyond, B.C. She gets in within a day or two. You can wait here in the US for a long time to see a doctor now - healthcare is not going to make that worse than it already is.
A lot of facts were presented - as opposed to the myths and fearmongering - in links earlier in this thread and some of the facts there might lead towards answers and solutions.
And NO - Politifact and FactCheck and Snopes are not PRO or CON anyone. Reading them would show you that. They treat both "sides" the same way. It is about facts, not personalities or parties or Left or Right. Those sites make that very clear. Why are such fact-checking sites deemed pro-Obama - simply because they disprove a lot of the myths that are presented as fact? They do that for everyone and they also find fault with Obama ALL THE TIME and expose his doublespeak etc. As well as anyone else who is caght lying and distorting the facts.
That is a balance you will never see at openly biased sources like MSNBC - sorry, NBC News, Fox News etc.
A lot of facts were presented - as opposed to the myths and fearmongering - in links earlier in this thread and some of the facts there might lead towards answers and solutions.
And NO - Politifact and FactCheck and Snopes are not PRO or CON anyone. Reading them would show you that. They treat both "sides" the same way. It is about facts, not personalities or parties or Left or Right. Those sites make that very clear. Why are such fact-checking sites deemed pro-Obama - simply because they disprove a lot of the myths that are presented as fact? They do that for everyone and they also find fault with Obama ALL THE TIME and expose his doublespeak etc. As well as anyone else who is caght lying and distorting the facts.
That is a balance you will never see at openly biased sources like MSNBC - sorry, NBC News, Fox News etc.
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Sonya
Well-Known Member
Who is going to pay for this someone asked....you, me, and the rest of the middle class. 75% is going to be payed by the middle class.
Matt73
Well-Known Member
Sorry....haven't read the whole thread, but the whole idea/scare tactic that Canada's health care system is horrific is so laughable to all of us up here in our igloos. Good Lord. Talk about propaganda..... The longest I've waited to see my doctor or a specialist is 1 week.
Ok I have a family member here who gets medical through the VA. It is literally MONTHS, no matter how urgent the problem, before he is able to see a doctor. It's ridiculous. If he has something that is urgent, he has to literally go to urgent care to get anything looked at. Who runs the VA stuff here? THE GOVERNMENT
ozymandias
Well-Known Member
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I think we could learn a lot from Canada
Sonya
Well-Known Member
...and I can post links that will show you that yes the middleclass is going to pay for this and pay dearly but they will be discredited...and by the way snopes is one of the most liberal sites out there. I will say that if this system is going to be like the VA hospitals, we are severly screwed. I don't live in Canada so I can't comment much on their system although I do have some relatives in Canada and all they do is complain...thankfully they haven't had any major health issues but they do come to the U.S. For preventive care because they say they can't get it in Canada...at least not timely.
Minimor
Well-Known Member
That's too bad Sonya that your family up here doesn't get timely health care. Perhaps it depends where one lives & how plentiful doctors are. Here I never have to wait more than a few days to get an appointment with my doctor. There are times when I phone in & ask for an appointment & get offered one that very day, or perhaps the following day. If my doctor is on vacation of course I might wait a week or two for him to get back, but there is also walk-in if it's urgent. When I go to walk-in the doctor has all my clinic records available, so I still get good care.
Of all the people I know, I know of just two that went by their own choice to the US for health care--both cancer patients who felt that they could get better or faster treatment in the US. I don't know if it really was better or even faster--it didn't benefit them any because both passed away very soon after treatment. I know one person that was sent to the Mayo clinic because a doctor there specialized in his particular condition; likewise there are people who get referred to specialists in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver, it depends on the conditon and where the best treatment option is. We do have very good specialists in Winnipeg so the majority of patients get excellent care right here at home. We now have a Cancer Care center here in Brandon, so cancer patients no longer have to travel to get their treatments.
There have been some doctor shortages in rural Manitoba; in this particular area that is not a problem now. We've had some new doctors come to town, and they are still accepting new patients. Of course we've had a few crappy physicians here too--My mom had one of those a few years back. Happily he left town--moved to somewhere in the US--so if you think you're getting better care because you pay for your doctor visits, perhaps that isn't the case. Someone on this very forum could very well be seeing that doctor that we were happy to see gone!! As for him--he's just getting better paid for his substandard services now that he is south of the border.
Of all the people I know, I know of just two that went by their own choice to the US for health care--both cancer patients who felt that they could get better or faster treatment in the US. I don't know if it really was better or even faster--it didn't benefit them any because both passed away very soon after treatment. I know one person that was sent to the Mayo clinic because a doctor there specialized in his particular condition; likewise there are people who get referred to specialists in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver, it depends on the conditon and where the best treatment option is. We do have very good specialists in Winnipeg so the majority of patients get excellent care right here at home. We now have a Cancer Care center here in Brandon, so cancer patients no longer have to travel to get their treatments.
There have been some doctor shortages in rural Manitoba; in this particular area that is not a problem now. We've had some new doctors come to town, and they are still accepting new patients. Of course we've had a few crappy physicians here too--My mom had one of those a few years back. Happily he left town--moved to somewhere in the US--so if you think you're getting better care because you pay for your doctor visits, perhaps that isn't the case. Someone on this very forum could very well be seeing that doctor that we were happy to see gone!! As for him--he's just getting better paid for his substandard services now that he is south of the border.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
You're saying exactly what I've heard and read -- time and time again, source after repeated source
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Minimor
Well-Known Member
Seriously Tab, here in Canada people get treated for ovarian cysts/tumors of all kinds ecery day. Prople get treated for ovarian cancer and cancer of the fallopian tubes every day. The fact that you heard of one woman who had a jerk of a doctor who wouldn't treat her doesn't mean our entire health care ststem is a disaster! I bet there are as many screw ups in your health care system as there are in ours. I bet you have some crooked doctors too!
Oh Sonya, please do. I'd like to see what source you're using that's better/more credible than politifact.
It's very easy to find all the biased and false information you'd like, especially on the internet. It's not as easy to do your homework using as unbiased sources as possible that actually do their research.
It's very easy to find all the biased and false information you'd like, especially on the internet. It's not as easy to do your homework using as unbiased sources as possible that actually do their research.
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Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Silly Conservatives... We know only the liberals links are unbiased and acurate They and their lefty outlets keep saying so, so it must true.
tagalong
Well-Known Member
And FoxNews brays they are fair and balanced - so it must be true! Not.
FactCheck and Politifact are NOT media venues - they are what they say they are - fact checkers. However inconvenient that may be to those who prefer that their "facts" suit a specific agenda.
A close examination of what Politifact and FactCheck do would show ANYONE without a predisposed "opinion" that they are not biased. Look at them. Actually read there as opposed to taking someone's word for it that they are biased. They dissect everything about everyone and do not sugarcoat anything, They do not favour Obama - wow - I guess all those lists of promises he has not kept and things he has done or said wrong are imaginary!! Nothing is based on right or left or preferences or party lines - just FACTS and repeated links to back them up. And the bigger media outlets like Fox often use them as unbiased sources/fact checkers.
But if the facts do not line up with some opinion piece or a biased talking head who picks and choses what facts he/she will use or discard to suit whatever purpose (and yes, this happens on both "sides") then surely the facts must be wrong!! And the fact checking source must therefore be biased, evil - or some other dismissive term like.... what was it? Oh yes... "lefty".
And no, I am not "going after" specific posters as I have been wrongly accused of in the past - I am addressing the comment /post and not the poster.
May I please see a link to an unbiased source that shows how Snopes (for instance) is "liberal"?? I guess I did not know that investigating Nigerian princes who email you to ask you to send them money was only a liberal issue... or that an email telling you that you won a lottery in Izbekazkhistan and you need to send them $5,000 in order for them to send you $5,000,000 was just a liberal thing... or investigating all the rumours and tales about hidden messages in Disney movies was a liberal affair.. or disproving the "fact" that if you share a specific email and link with all your friends, it is a way for Microsoft to test their new mail program and Bill Gates will send you $$ for every person you contact. Most of Snopes is not even political!
May we have a link to this story, please? I would love to read this in its entirety...
ETA: Never mind - found it! Although I will have to unwind the facts from the pontifications and protests to find out what was basically going on there...
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tagalong
Well-Known Member
Thanks - I already saw that one - I am looking at a variety of sources to try and separate the angst from the actual events...
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Lizzie
Well-Known Member
Health care in the US, is an abysmal mess. There again, it seems that the entire US is in a mess these days.
I remember years ago, there was always talk among Americans, of how poor the health system was in England. I never found it so. My cousin and her husband in Wales, both in their late 60s, recently each had a hip replacement. They are reasonably well off, compared to many in the US. Own their own home, free and clear and also their car. Not one penny came out of their pocket, for the surgeries.
My own mother and father-in-law, finally went bankrupt and had to live with us to end their days. This after owning in earlier life, a large part of the Las Vegas Strip. Every penny they had, eventually went into their health care, doctors and hospitals. How many others through the years, have lost everything, due to illness? Hundreds of thousands I imagine.
I don't know what the answer is. There are serious flaws in every idea put forward.
Lizzie
I remember years ago, there was always talk among Americans, of how poor the health system was in England. I never found it so. My cousin and her husband in Wales, both in their late 60s, recently each had a hip replacement. They are reasonably well off, compared to many in the US. Own their own home, free and clear and also their car. Not one penny came out of their pocket, for the surgeries.
My own mother and father-in-law, finally went bankrupt and had to live with us to end their days. This after owning in earlier life, a large part of the Las Vegas Strip. Every penny they had, eventually went into their health care, doctors and hospitals. How many others through the years, have lost everything, due to illness? Hundreds of thousands I imagine.
I don't know what the answer is. There are serious flaws in every idea put forward.
Lizzie
