Quantcast

Update - {{{SadSighs}}}

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

SWA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
2,283
Reaction score
1
Hi there,

Well, I'm heartbroken for my Desi-Lu. It seems now, she'll likely NEVER see a show ring. {{{SadSighs}}} I'm bewildered. Upon the trainers initial evaluation of her, after her being there with them the first few days, I really had such high hopes for her as a Country Pleasure driving mare. They said, after trying her out those first couple days, that she had a "nice headset", just needed to work on her stamina because it had been so long (nearly 2 1/2 years) since I've really done any driving with her, since our move to our new home here. So all last week, I was so excited to finally get to go see her there at the trainers again, and have "my" first lesson with her in learning how to drive her in a show ring and all. I was supposed to go on this past Saturday. Only, just the day before, on Friday, they called me with the heartbreaking news. They said they've been working with her some more, and now she's revealed greater issues that will take extensive time (they said possibly at least 6 months) to try to help her work through them. But, currently "as is" she will not be ready in time to be able to take her to the AMHR show in Okochobee in May. {{{SadSighs}}}

Well, after talking some more about her issues, we decided that we need to go ahead and just bring her back home, as we wouldn't be able to afford any great extensive time in retraining as she would likely need. So, I never got to have a lesson in "show ring driving" with her. Oh well. Hopefully we'll have other opportunities in the future. {{{SadSighs}}} Gosh, I dunno.

He said whoever trained her in the past, has done a great disservice to her in letting her get away with some things for so long, that she will have to be completely retrained to help her overcome her issues. I told him, that would be "me". "I" did this to her. I felt about the size of a pea with that admission, but he was right. It is my fault that she does as she does, and I guess I've ruined her for it. He did say though, that if we wanted to continue to work with her at home on her issues, that he would help us figure things out along our way, in helping her work through them, but I don't know. If it would take them at best, 6 months of further extensive training, then I can only imagine how long it would take "me" with it all. She's already 12, and I've pretty much resolved that "this year" at least is already out of the picture for her now, as even if she stayed with them, this this show year would already be over by the time they worked her through them. And with me working her myself here at home, it could take at least another year or two...and who knows if she'll be "out of style" all over again by that time. So, it just seems rather redundant, I guess, at this point to try to make an effort of it.

Her primary "issue", (as some of you "long timer mini folks" may recall me even asking for help on this several years ago, back when we were still in Maine), is that she utterly INSISTS on having her tongue OVER the bit. NONE of my other horses have ever made this an issue. Just Desi. She's the ONLY horse I have ever encountered that literally INSISTS she have her tongue OVER the bit. I have tried and tried to force her to keep her tongue under, but she just would never have it. Years ago, a friend suggested that I just use a caveson on her to solve that, and I did, but she still always finnaggled with it till she worked her tongue back to where SHE preferred, OVER the bit. So as long as it wasn't interferring with her "comfort zone" when we drove her, I just let her have her way. It wasn't a "pretty site" or "lady like" to see her tongue flopping out the side of her face all the time, but SHE was always happiest with it there, LOL. She never refused the bit, so long as she could put her tongue where she was comfy with it, and she'd sure as shootin' ALWAYS drive like no tomorrow without fail. With a race record yet to be broken still, to prove it.

But, that won't help her in any "show ring" I guess. {{{SadSighs}}}

They said they've tried to work her with a caveson too, and when they'd tighten it so she could not finnaggle her tongue back over, she'd throw a fit and even go so far as to REAR UP. That shocked me, as she has NEVER reared up in the cart before...but then, I always let her have her tongue where she was happy with it. So anyways, they said they could help her work through that, but it would take a major overhaul in retraining her mindset to kick that long developed old habit.

So...I humbly admitt... "I" did this to her. {{{SadSighs}}}

Other than that, she's AWESOME to drive, she has a soft mouth (other than the tongue issue), has NO dental issues (Roger even said her bite was "dead on"), she has great extension, knows and holds her gaits to a "T"...but, by golly, just don't ask her to tuck that tongue of hers. Cause, I guess's she'll stand her ground and fight ya for it to put it where SHE wants it. {{{SIGHS}}}

So, anyways, as of yesterday afternoon...my Desi-Lu is back home now. So I am happy about that, because I've missed her so much these last several weeks, but I am saddened for her, that she won't see a show ring anytime soon, if ever at all.

I guess she'll just hang out here and just be my good ol faithful trail driving horse, and maybe parades every now and then still. So we do still have that to look forward to at least, LOL.

Here's one last photo of her. These are likely the last "nice" pics I'll ever get of her now...so I am glad I got them while I could. I do want to thank Roger and Dale for at least trying with her too. That's the best I could have hoped for, at the very least.



I do still want to take her to this coming show anyways, to at least have her measured right. That's bugging the bejeebers out of me, and I just have to know if I really measured her right or wrong all those years ago.

Anyways...as for Bridget, she's still trucking along with them. I'm almost scared to death to raise my hopes for her anymore though. They still seem to feel confident that she could hold her own as a "Halter Show Mare", but I don't want my bubble to burst for her like it has for my Desi-Lu. So, for now, I'm just gonna squint my eyes behind my hands (like a game of peek-a-boo) and just pray that all my HOPES for her don't come crashing down too. We'll see soon, I guess.

Anyways, thanks for bearing with me.
{{{HUGS}}}

Appreciatively,

Tanya
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
13,596
Reaction score
520
Location
Tennessee
I know its a let down but not worth beating yourself up over it. Look on the bright side Tan.......a lot of people would give their eye teeth for a dead broke

driving horse whether their tongue hung out or not. You can still get plenty of miles out of her

in your own neighborhood and just enjoy her the way she is. She still brings joy to your life in other ways and we know to treasure those precious moments the most.
 

keely2682

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 2, 2005
Messages
487
Reaction score
0
Location
florida
there are many options to work on the tongue issue

be happy that the trainers were honest with you

and suggested that you take the time to properly work her over her issues

they didn't haul to the show and collect your money

for you to be embarassed in the ring

you have many trained driving horses

maybe another would be suitable to show?
 

SWA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
2,283
Reaction score
1
I know its a let down but not worth beating yourself up over it. Look on the bright side Tan.......a lot of people would give their eye teeth for a dead broke

driving horse whether their tongue hung out or not. You can still get plenty of miles out of her

in your own neighborhood and just enjoy her the way she is. She still brings joy to your life in other ways and we know to treasure those precious moments the most.
AMEN!
 

SWA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
2,283
Reaction score
1
there are many options to work on the tongue issue

be happy that the trainers were honest with you

and suggested that you take the time to properly work her over her issues

they didn't haul to the show and collect your money

for you to be embarassed in the ring

you have many trained driving horses

maybe another would be suitable to show?
Hi Keely,

Yes, we are most grateful for their integrity and honesty with us. Just breaks my heart "for" Desi, that "I" did this to her. But we are dearly grateful to Roger and Dale for at least trying with her. That's all we really "hoped" for from the start, is for someone to take her under their wing, as they have, and look at her, for her, and then just let us know if she "has it" or not, LOL. She would...if not for "me" and my faulty handywork in her earlier years. There's no one to blame in that, but "me".


When Roger brought her home yesterday, I could feel the reluctance in his heart to break that to me, but it's entirely because of his integrity that enabled his honesty and frankness with me. I do hope he sensed my sincerest appreciation in that as well. I even wanted to give him a HUG for it (I'm a hugger
) to thank him from my heart, but I didn't know if he'd be receptive of that, being that we didn't know him well along yet, LOL.


how about rolex or the other grey mare?
Yes, we're thinking Rolex, LOL! But, I think we'll see how Bridget does first, at least for this upcoming show. Then hubby and I hope to talk further with them later on, in any possible future "show driving" prospects. Rolex might be our best "hopeful". Jeannie has shown him, and done well with him last year when she and her grand daughter showed him. So...we're thinking awful hard down "that" road.
We'll see, I guess.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kaykay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
4,390
Reaction score
4
Location
ohio
Tanya

Im so sorry you are disappointed. But glad you have your girl back home. Please dont be so hard on yourself!! Reminds me of a saying "when I knew better I did better" You didnt know at the time and now you do. Not every horse is destined for the show ring. I do know from experience how disappointing it is!

As for the halter mare please keep this in mind. Its a judges opinion on THAT day. I have had horses get the gate one day and win the following week against the same horses just a different judge. So even if she doesnt place at her first show does not mean shes not halter quality. The main thing is to learn and have fun!! Show season is such a small slice of a horses overall life

Hugs to you!!

Kay
 

Katiean

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
3,531
Reaction score
2
Location
Northern Nevada
We had a Standardbred mare. A trotter that stood maybe 14H (barn name Tiny Trot) that would get her tongue over the bit. This is not safe on the race track. They used a tongue tie on her. Maybe you could use one in training to get your mare out of the habit? A tongue tie is a loop of leather (one strip of leather feeding one end through a slit) you put around the tongue and buckle under the chin. It keeps the tongue in her mouth and maybe she can learn thats where it belongs. Just a suggestion. They do it on the race track. I have not done it since I left the track.
 

barefoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
263
Reaction score
0
Could you try a Dr. Cook mini driving headstall that they are making now? I saw it at www.bitlessbridle.com

I have a Dr. Cook bridle that I use riding sometimes. To be honest I feel I have more control bitless.

I know I used to have a saddle that didn't make my big girl happy, she was so difficult in so many areas. Once I found a configuration that she liked , I have a COMPLETELY different horse.

Just to add, I don't know much about driving. I hope to learn though.
 

txminipinto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
2,749
Reaction score
1
I've taken some baling twine tied it to the snaffle, running it through the mouth and then tied in a knot over the top jaw. Then run the rest of the twine up to the headpiece tying it between the ears at the poll. It keeps the bit elevated enough that they can't push it down with their tounge to get the tounge over it. Try that and see if it helps.
 

hobbyhorse23

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
7,805
Reaction score
35
Location
Lakeport, CA
First of all, I'm so sorry that you've had this disappointment and that you're feeling let down. It's no fun at all when you get your hopes up and then something goes wrong!
But for gosh sakes, don't go feeling "sad for her" that "you did this to her." Did what?? SHE doesn't care that she isn't showing, in fact she's probably happier at home with Mom going down the road and racing then clipped and oiled and stalled and blanketed and trotted in little circles with a headset. SHE has no interest in ribbons, no idea she's been "cheated" out of anything! She just loves her mommy and is glad to be home. There are those rare horses who just love to compete and truly miss it when they stay home but most of them with a full and interesting home life like yours have are just as happy not showing. Don't go beating yourself up for something she most assuredly doesn't see as a problem!

barefoot said:
Could you try a Dr. Cook mini driving headstall that they are making now? I saw it at www.bitlessbridle.com
I know I used to have a saddle that didn't make my big girl happy, she was so difficult in so many areas. Once I found a configuration that she liked, I have a COMPLETELY different horse.
Bitless bridles are not allowed in any driving discipline so wouldn't solve the problem, unfortunately. You've got exactly the right idea though- experiment with equipment to see what the horse is objecting to! She may think the bit is too thick or too thin, she may not like the taste of the metal, she may have an old scar on her tongue you haven't seen that is causing her pain, she may want a bar mouthpiece when you've got her in jointed or visa versa...the list is endless. Experiment!

The only way you have done her a disservice (if you want to call it that) is by not looking for some of the more obscure possible causes for her behavior. Frankly if she's happy and you're happy, why do you have to do things the way everyone else does? All fitting the mold does is make some individuals (like me) crazy.


Go enjoy your girl! I'm sure she's happy to be home.

Leia
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sterling

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
6,044
Reaction score
12
Location
Southern, NJ
Awww Tanya.....I can read the dissappointment in your words...but take heart...your pretty girl is back home, she loves being a horse and she has YOU! You can still enjoy her no matter whether she goes in the show ring or not....don't be too hard on yourself. I'm willing to bet she'll be just as happy being a stay-at-home-horse.
As long as she's healthy and happy that's all that matters.
 

SWA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
2,283
Reaction score
1
Thanks so much Kay, I'll try to keep that in my mind's heart, above all else. To just have fun with Bidget, no matter how well she does or does not do, we're just there to have the fun of enjoying the experience of it all with her.


Thanks so much for the suggestions Kat, Carin & Barefoot.
I remember the tongue tie down from our old racing days. Have never actually done it with our horses though, but remember the racing clinics our club had with SB race veterans teaching the technique. We will try that, and Carin's bit tie suggestion too, to see how Desi might take to either.

Leia, your suggestions breaths "hope" back into my deflated heart balloon all over again, LOL! Experimenting with options, that's what Roger and Dale have offered to help us with, here at home. I guess, I was just ready to give up too easy. Not a trait I've ever possessed in my earlier years, but lately...whewboy. I do sometimes feel the years creeping up on me where I find myself having a hard time getting back up when I get knocked down, so to speak, LOL. I have to sometimes smack myself upside the head nowadays though, and say NUFF OF THAT NOW, Y'HEAR!!!
LOL! :DOH!

You are right though, I need to pick myself back up, dust off my inner pride, and buckle down to find out what is making her want her tongue like that in the first place, and then help her fix it, for her sake most of all. Hopefully, Roger and Dale will still help me work through it with her.
If it takes me a year or two to figure it out, then so be it.


Oh, and the wanting to show her? Wasn't to "fit a mold" with her. It's just something that I have always wanted to do with her since the day she was born, and just never have. Time, life & priorities over the years have always taken precedence over personal "fun stuff" that I've always "wanted" to do with her. So just never got to it. Till now....


Only NOW, I guess there's work to do, to back track over how I've let her develop her mindset toward having her tongue where she wants it over the years in the mean time. :DOH!

So, I guess I'm still hopeful somewhat, that with working her through it, she might still be able to take me into a show ring "someday". If it happens, then SUPER
, but if not, I guess that's ok too.


I'll try again with another "hopeful" sooner or later.
Lord willing.


Awww Tanya.....I can read the dissappointment in your words...but take heart...your pretty girl is back home, she loves being a horse and she has YOU! You can still enjoy her no matter whether she goes in the show ring or not....don't be too hard on yourself. I'm willing to bet she'll be just as happy being a stay-at-home-horse.
As long as she's healthy and happy that's all that matters.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Keri

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,698
Reaction score
1
Location
Elwood, Utah
I'm with Leia. Experiment with bits. Also, take her back to the basics. Tie her up with a bridle and cavesson and let her work through her problems with them (with you standing close). Each horse is different and trains different. Just got to work with them. If you want her to show, then you need to not drive her until her problems are solved and she can successfully keep her tongue under her bit. If you don't care, then play around at home and have fun.
 

hobbyhorse23

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
7,805
Reaction score
35
Location
Lakeport, CA
SWA said:
Oh, and the wanting to show her? Wasn't to "fit a mold" with her. It's just something that I have always wanted to do with her since the day she was born, and just never have. Time, life & priorities over the years have always taken precedence over personal "fun stuff" that I've always "wanted" to do with her. So just never got to it. Till now....
No no,
I just meant that so many times we try to force our children, our animals, or ourselves into certain ways of doing things because "that's the way it's done" and we feel shameful for doing things differently. Why is it wrong for her to travel with her tongue over the bit if she's controllable that way and it makes her happy? If you want to show her then we'll help you find ways to address the problem so you can do what you'll enjoy, sure thing.
But otherwise there's no need to feel like you've ruined her. She's happy. You're happy. You do things a little differently in order to get along together. To me that's a partnership, not a reason for shame!


Every one of my horses is, shall we say, a little different and I love them that way. It's the difficult horses that have the most to give.

Leia
 

Keri

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,698
Reaction score
1
Location
Elwood, Utah
Also, think of all the other things she can be trained for. Take her shows for halter, in-hand obstacle, liberty, jumping, hunter. You can still show her if not for driving until you're comfortable.
 

whitney

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
2,310
Reaction score
8
Location
Michigan
6 months is 6 months not 6 YEARS. Plus think of how good YOU'LL feel when YOU fix the problem.

Make sure FIRST their are NO mouth issues......I would cavesson first TIGHT, so she's not able to open her mouth. MAKE sure you have a THICK bit snaffle/bar which ever she tolerates better. And put her on the lunge line attached to her halter and let her pitch a fit. I think she will figure out fairly quickly where her tongue belongs. If she makes a step without a fit stop and give her a scratch, if she pitches a fit make her work harder/faster. Work her this way until she doesn't even try to relocate her tongue. Progress to long lines (without incident) and then to empty cart (without incident) and then WALA to driver. Its best to TAKE your time between steps because if she's not SOLID and you move to the next step and she does the tongue thing you have to start ALL OVER again.

GOOD LUCK, I personally LOVE a challenging horse, the payoff is much BIGGER.
 

Minimor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
850
Location
Brandon Manitoba
I'm sorry, but I have to say this. It is just entirely WRONG to use a cavesson adjusted tightly enough to keep the mouth right closed in an effort to keep the horse from putting its tongue over the bit. That is a complete misuse of a cavesson! I am not surprised that your mare reared when they did the cavesson up that tight!

A cavesson that is that tight puts pressure on the teeth--worse, it will be mashing the inner cheeks into those teeth, and it causes intense discomfort for the horse!!

If you want something to keep the mouth shut, a dropped noseband--properly fitted--is the thing to use. It fits just below the bit, away from the molars.

If I have a horse that I'm starting & he wants to have his tongue over the bit, I do as someone posted above--tie the bit up in the mouth with a strap over the nose--this reduces tongue pressure (which is what many of these horses are objecting to) and also makes it impossible for the horse to put his tongue over the bit. When you use the lines you will have the bit acting a little bit on the tongue and bars, and you will have a little bit of pressure acting on the nose. As the horse progresses in training you can generally lower the big gradually until you reach the point where you can remove the strap completely, and the horse will carry the bit normally. With your mare, since she has been doing this tongue over the bit thing for so long, she will probably need a lot of time to get over it, if she gets over it at all.

I don't know just what Myler bits are available for Minis. For big horses there are so many bits available that you can try different ones--there are those that are designed to reduce tongue pressure, and one of those may be effective on a horse that likes to put his tongue over (I've never tried that--on the few problem horses I've had I've just tied the bit up over the nose, and it has worked every time). Last year I had a Mini that was tending to put his tongue over the snaffle. I switched him to a french link and that solved the problem with him. I have a gelding that has a real time with a snaffle--he doesn't put his tongue over, but he fusses and fusses with his mouth. I put a full cheek bit on him, with the keepers in place, and he was then quiet with his mouth. The keepers make the bit a little more severe, but they also keep the jointed mouthpiece from dropping down, and that is what makes all the difference for him.

Proper training isn't using a cavesson to force the horse to keep his mouth shut, no matter how painful it may be for him--proper training starts with a comfortable horse!
 

MiniHunterHorseFan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
550
Reaction score
0
Location
Texas
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!
Just keep working at it. You'll figure something out. Read up on the driving subject, ask other trainers on their opinions. If you don't show her in the ring just because she gets her own way and rears up because she can't have her tongue a special way, she wins the battle, not you.
 
Top