Trying to keep a horse from being killed!

[JuGGler_j0e]

A friend/employer of mine has a 30+ year old Morgan mare with bad teeth. I haven't checked her teeth myself to see what the trouble is, but I will as soon as I see her again.

Anyway, because of this problem, she is unable to eat enough and has lost a lot of weight. What with winter in Oregon coming on, and the trouble with food consumption, my friend is at a loss of what to do, and is thinking of just putting the mare down. I THINK THIS IS A BAD IDEA!! :new_shocked:

This mare is a sweet, gentle grandma of a horse, who is still happy and alert, with interested eyes and ears forward. I think it is possible to change her diet, and get more weight on her before winter. I haven't told any of this to my friend yet, but last time I talked to her about the mare, she seemed open to any helpful ideas.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? Here's some info I've put together.

She is currently being fed 3 pounds of Senior Complete Feed twice daily, as well as a 1 gallon amount of loose hay leaf/seed twice daily. (Alfalfa leaf in morning, grass leaf at night). It's just the leaf/seed because she can't chew anything with stems.

She has constant turnout with a run-in shed. She has no grass in her paddock -- just dirt.

She has an automatic waterer, so I'm currently unable to monitor her fluid intake.

She has no salt/mineral blocks. I will try to get her one, as having none is totally unacceptable in my book.

She is never groomed, and her feet look like they haven't been cleaned in quite some time. They are also showing some minor cracking. (They are due for a trimming NOW!)

I talked to another friend of mine (who is unknown by my first friend) who is a Licenced Massage Therapist that practices bodywork on horses and people, and is very knowledgeable in alternative medicine and organic treatments. She is also the best horsewoman/trainer I have ever met -- that's not an overstatement! :aktion033: She suggested:

The mare should be put on hay pellets along with the Senior that she's already getting. Soaking the hay pellets should help if the mare has trouble eating them. She should also be put on Probiotics to help with her digestion. (And also her detox.)

I want to bring all this information to my friend (mare's owner) as soon as possible, as I don't know when she is planning to have the mare put down. That way she'll know all the options, and maybe change her mind about killing this sweet animal. I will also offer to take care of all the mare's other basic needs -- grooming, bathing, hoof cleaning/trimming, etc.

I really love this horse, and I see a ray of hope for her. I believe she still has a few more years left in her, and killing her just because we can't find the right type of feed is just stupid.

: Better to wait until she's in some REAL pain or discomfort before having her put down. If she can get her weight back, I'm sure my friend will change her mind, and keep her alive. I know she's going to have to leave us someday, and I accept that fact. Even if this mare died in her sleep, I wouldn't be sad about it -- I'd be happy that I gave her one last chance, and that she'd had a full life as a champion award-winning show horse. (SHE WAS!!!

: )

Anyway, let me know what you think about all this. If you have any other useful info that I could share with my friend to convince her, please post! If you have any questions about the mare please ask away.

Thank you!

 

[SunQuest]

We own a full sized Appy that is a retired hunter/jumper. He is about the same age as the mare you are talking about. He alsohas no teeth left for chewing. Your friend is correct.

I can talk with my sister who is currently caring for he guy and find out, but basically ALL his food is of a chopped variety that is soaked so that it is easier to swallow and prevent choking. Soaking the hay pellets loosens the hay so that it is easier to digest as well. It is a pain in the rear to make up food every day, but once the horse excepts it and you notice the changes, then it makes the troubles worth while.

Make sure to talk with a vet. If the horse is having troubles, the vet will be able to recommend the best course of action which may even including foating teeth or even pulling any that are left if required. I know that if the horse will eat and if you can get the weight back on her she should be able to make it through the winter with care and hot gruel as my sister calls it.

Good luck and do check about getting mostly processed soaked food into the mare.

Added: It may be a good thing that the mare is not on pasture if she has no teeth. My sister has to keep Stormy on a dry lot as he chokes if he tries to eat grass as he can pick it but not grind it up.

 

[Katiean]

I tend to agree with your second friend as to what to feed the mare. In the winter time you can soak the alfalfa pellets in hot water. That way they don't freeze so fast and the warm will help warm the mare. I do hate to say it because I can not put an animal down because it is the easy way out. But, she is 30 years old and with out proper care she will suffer in the winter time. Especially if she is thin. I think along with the food change she would require a water proof winter blanket. The care of any SR. (person or animal) is not an easy task and could be expensive. Good Luck!

 

[Marty]

Hello old friend! It's been a long time Joe......like years! And as usual, I admire your compassion for animals. You must be what, 17-18 by now?

I'm so sorry about this horse Joe but 30 is very old and if she cannot eat, euthanasia would be better than having this mare starve to death.

It seems that she is not being fed enough, but even with what she is being fed, she shouldn't be loosing so much weight so I would suspect something else could easily be going on with her. Without running blood it's hard to tell but possibly she could use a couple of good de-wormings. If she hasn't been getting cared for she might just be feeding the worms her food, but I would start with the teeth.

I would suggest having her teeth floated by an equine dentist if you have one there. If not, then the vet. She needs a highly trained professional to do her teeth, to see if there is anything they can salvage to help her chew better again.

Don't forget to make any food changes very slowely. I would consider feeding soaked beet pulp because that stuff does put on weight and is very good for horses that can't get enough hay to eat. Soaking hay pellets sounds like a good idea too.

The last thing I would suggest is to have her on some Corteflex product for artheritis.

I'm sure others will be stepping up with better ideas for you.

I'm glad to see you Joe just sad that it's under these circumstances.

Best wishes my friend. You are still quite the wonderful young man.

 

[SilverDollar]

Hi Joe,

I rescued and rehabbed three horses three years ago. All were extremely underweight and were 1.5-2.0 on the Henneke scale. Rhett is now 28 years young and he hardly has any teeth (he hardly had any teeth when I rescued him!) Anyway, Rhett is a big guy--16.1+ hh--and he is on a diet of hay pellets and senior pellets that I soak. It's really easy and no trouble at all (just heavy!

: ) He gets a total of about 14 lbs. of timothy and bermuda hay pellets (soaked) and about 7 lbs. of Nutrena Senior pellets soaked (no molasses). He gets vitamins that have flaxseed in it. He is in perfect weight and healthy.

Horses need approximately 2% of their body weight in food to maintain their weight; more than that if you want to put on weight. Rhett weighs about 1300 lbs. so 21 lbs. of food per day is a good maintenance ration for him. He's in a dirt paddock but likes to munch on grass when I let him. He does tend to get an upset tummy when given shredded hay or forage so I don't do that.

Bless you for wanting to help this mare. Please feel free to PM me for more information and photos. The horses I rescued were very neglected and I spent a lot of time and money rehabilitating them. (I don't mind as that's my passion and I don't have children.) Rhett needed a lot of dental work (had an abcessed cracked molar--infected, too.)

Good luck! There's hope!

Rebecca

 

[HGFarm]

I am sure I will get beat up over this one, but I have to be a realist here. The horse is 30 years old?!! That is pretty darned old and sounds like maybe it is not just the teeth, but the whole body just starting to give up. You can't force them to stay here when it is time for them to go.

I would hate to see this horse get down in mid winter and go through something horrible.

There is a time to say good bye, gracefully. If the horse just is not going to do well, and continues to go downhill, which could be a likely chance at the age it is, it would be much more humane for the horse not to have to go through that.

How much is your friend willing to pump into a horse that is that old? It is SO HARD to put them down, but even harder in my opinion, to see an old friend suffer and drag it out.

I do not believe in seeing them in 'REAL' pain or discomfort before someone finally makes a decision to let them go peacefully. If the horse has been a valued friend and companion, don't make her suffer.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I agree... this horse has lived a very long and hopefully happy life. She probably has a history of loosing weight over the winter, since that's very common with older horses. It sounds like the current owner is taking care of her nutritionally, and while there are things you chould change, its not up to you to do so. The owner is obviously involved and caring, and its their horse to take care of. If you want to offer a suggestion on adding some weight, go for it, but this isn't a "killing" situation, its a "euthinization" situation. There is a difference. It's better in my opinion to live a full life and die peacefully surrounded by friends while in relatively good health, than it is to suffer through one last winter, make it halfway through, then starve before being put down. Then they can't bury her either, if they were planning that for her. Bottom line is this horse doesn't belong to you, and by trying to help and browbeating the owner into keeping her going another year may prolong both the mare's and the owner's pain making both suffer more than is needed.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Seeing as it is almost just Sept, give her a chance IF the owner wants to, you cannot push, they know her better. I can feel your compassion, grass hay pellets with her senior feed will help BUT I will agree with Nathan, & HG & Marty. At 30 she deserves and is owed a good passing. She wouldn't be "put down" but "let go" with love, peace and dignity. On the other side she will be happy and whole again. I really think that it would be best done before winter. I think it is going to be a brutal one. I applaud your passion and equine love, try but don't make the owner feel any worse than they most likely do already for considering allowing her to go.

 

[Kim]

People call us the 'geriatric horse farm' because we have so many old guys, and they tend to live a very long time! I would recommend getting the vet out - someone that you know and trust, as a lot of vets will just say 'put the horse down', even if it still is interested and happy. The vet will be able to recommend what the horse needs healthwise.

As for feeding, we feed our old guys a combination of grain, alfalfa cubes and beet pulp, all soaked. Soaking thouroughly is very important, since these old guys can't chew. We have found that Manna Pro Senior feed is the best grain for the old guys. We will feed that, mixed with some oats, soaked, and topped up with vitamins (pick one with B12) and a splash of oil to add some fat. Then in the other tub, we will mix alfalfa cubes and beet pulp together and soak that until it's well soaked (a few hours - the cubes have to be mushy so the horse won't choke). In terms of amounts, remember that this is all the horse is getting (no grass, hay, etc.) so feed quite a bit - figure out the approximate weight of your horse and take it from there.

Good luck!

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I agree with Marty and the others. There are far worse things than a humane death. Winter is very hard on the old ones, well taken care or, or not.

That said, if she waters her feed so it becomes mushy, she may be able to eat it. She also needs more Senior feed. Our old guy gets about 5lbs a feeding...

Lucy

 

[bfogg]

Tough call but all i would like to add is Beet pulp Beet pulp Beet pulp! Also unless you can be there morning and night to feed her and see she gets all she needs............

But i admire your compassion for this horse.

Good for you.

Most of you know how our 24 year old mini gelding Cash has battled cancer of the penis so hard.

He has lost the battle, after almost 4000.00 and many treatments vet said no more. So he will be put down this Friday at 4. Cash is still fat and runs around,but i want him to go when he is still Cash, ornery,do it his way and everything on his terms, so have elected to do it now and not wait for him to be in pain and miserable.

Fyi the cancer is about 5 inches long and about 2 inches around. DID I SAY I HATE CANCER!!!

The vet says do it now!

But want to say I think your pretty special to care about the mare so much, again it is a tough call.

Thank you for caring,

Would like to say please don't think of it as killing her i like to think of it as releasing them into another paradise.

Hugs

Bonnie

 

[Floridachick]

If she is NOT your horse is the horse going to get PROPER care all the way around or keep being neglected?

Better off sent over the Rainbow bridge than to suffer.

That said we have a 30+ yr old REscue with wavy mouth and she can't chew ANYTHING not even leaves... She is on 3 feedings a day that consist of 5 lbs Senior feed,Alfala pellets 1 cup soaked, 1/2 cup Canola oil, 1 cup soaked beet pulp, Free Balance 12:12, Dyne top dressing and she is staying healthy. If we cut any Senior she drops weight.

ITS A TOUGH TOUGH Call. Our old mare is very pricey to keep and she can not do much of anything anymore, but we love her and don't feel its her time yet. Goodluck

 

[Reijel's Mom]

This is a very tough situation. I agree with all of the posters - even though there are a mixed bag of opinions on the issue.

One thing I want to comment on is the "bad teeth" issue. It sounds like you aren't sure what is going on there - if bad teeth just means she doesn't have many or any that's one thing, but if she's got actual problems going on inside of her mouth because of bad teeth that is another issue.

I'd had my 25 year old riding mares teeth floated about once a year for the years I've had her. This last time I found an equine dentist who did the work, and he showed me everything that was going on wrong in her mouth, and it was causing a lot of problems. One side of her cheek was all cut up from the way she was having to chew with missing teeth and some jagged teeth, and then she also had a horrible abcessed tooth (which I did know about and that is why I had the dentist out).

Now, if your friend's mare has problems such as these and isn't willing or able to pay for someone to take care of them then it doesn't matter how much food you throw at this mare - she is going to have trouble processing it and she is going to be miserable besides. That is just not fair to her and she would really be better off being euthanized.

These are tough choices to make! I wish you luck. It does sound like the mare's owner does care about her regardless. Not too many people would have even kept her around, and senior food is not cheap. So whatever you do try to keep that in mind.

 

[wildoak]

I have a 30 year old QH mare who also is a sweet granma, she's had a hard time holding weight the last couple of years esp in winter. I have brought her weight up with Purina Ultima (at $16 a bag) and lots of other goodies, but it's expensive and it's a labor of love. She has her teeth checked annually and her feet done regularly. When I can no longer keep her comfortable I want to let her go with some dignity. Your friend may be making the same kind of decision, it's not an easy one but sometimes what we have to do. Good for you for caring, and I hope the old lady has some happy years left in her.

Jan

 

[Just Us N Texas]

Our old guy was 31 when he just laid down and crossed the bridge last fall. Before that, he had teeth problems. He was missing a few, and what was left were "drifting" around and making his bite terrible. We fed him equine senior, hay pellets, and lots of beet pulp. Everything was dumped together, soaked, and he ate a beautiful green soup. We stayed with him while he ate, and tilted his bucket for him so he could get every drop. At the end of the feed, he would start drinking it. It was a lot of expense and time consuming, but we felt it was worth it, as we had him since he was three years old, and he had even gone to college with his girl (my youngest). In later years he was used as a "teacher" for a riding handicapped program. When he got too arthritic, and too tired to carry the young ones around, he was brought back home to live out his life.

What I am saying Joe, is that it is terribly hard to put one down, but it's also terribly hard to care for an older one. You really have to be dedicated!

 

[JuGGler_j0e]

Wow, quite a response here! :aktion033: Thanks so much for your input everyone!

First I've got to give a shout out to Marty. HEY!! :bgrin Yes, it sure has been a long time. I'm 18, and working to get my driver's licence -- like so many people at my age.

: I've you haven't seen my new website, check it out: DJ EndurancE

Anyway, back to the mare: I'll be talking to her owner tomorrow, and presenting her with all the info I've collected from around the web. The final decision will be her's, and if she does decide to put the mare down, well, I'm okay with that. I'd feel much worse if it was a young horse, but like I said before, this mare has apparently had full, sucessful, exciting, and event filled life -- that makes me happy.

:

My friend is very busy, has about 15 horses, lots of boarders, goes to shows, and can't really afford a vet unless it's urgent. It may be just be better for her (owner) if this mare goes over the Rainbow Bridge. It doesn't really have anything to do with me at all, but I'm just trying to give her all the options possible. She can decide from there. (I'd offer to buy the mare and get her back to good health, but LOL, I could never afford that! :new_shocked: )

I'll let you know the outcome off all this in a new topic, once I find out what my friend's final decision is.

Thanks so much for all the feedback!