Totally Stupid Blue Eyes Question

[StarRidgeAcres]

I'm sure you pinto folks are going to roll on the floor with this one, but it won't be the first time (or the last

) that I ask a stupid question!

Here's my question...Does a blue eye mean the horse must carry some type of pinto?

My little mare Ericca (Vermilyea Farms Ericca) is as solid as solid can be (at least from what I can see). She has a very narrow star, strip, snip. One eye is brown and the other is a shockingly bright blue. Her parents are seemingly solid as well and do not have blue eyes that I know of.

Here is a body pic of Ericca (Arions Toy Monarchos x RSB Diva)

(no, she's actually not cowhocked, just standing weird in the pic)

Her pedigree:

Sire: Arions Toy Monarchos (SSR)

PGSire: Bond ATOY4U C (SSR)

PGDam: Dillards Black Beauty (SBK)

Dam: RSB Diva (SCS)

MGSire: Solid Gold Tender Love (PSR - ah! A Pinto!)

MGDam: Pick Me Please (SCS)

Also has Sids Rebel, GMB, Roan Ranger, Boone Little Apache, Love Me Tender (PBK) and others.

Thoughts? Blue eyes on a double dilute I understand!

Don't know what it means on a solid, non-double dilute horse!

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Here's my question...Does a blue eye mean the horse must carry some type of pinto?

Yes, blue eyes are caused by frame overo or splash

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Yes, blue eyes are caused by frame overo or splash

YIKES!

So, I test for LWO? No offense to anyone else, but I don't really want what I think of when I think of "overo" or "splash" as I see bald faces and colors so wild it's hard (for me) to see the actual structure of the horse.

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

YIKES! So, I test for LWO?

Yep I would, better safe to know if you'll be using her for breeding, that way if she is then you know to select a nn stallion, if she isn't she's safe for any fella you choose

One of our 2008 colts is solid black with just a few (and I mean 5-6) white hairs on his forehead, a full blue eye and a partial blue.. His sire is an overoloosa (Sky) with the bald face and blue eyes (which I love

), his dam is a LOUD black pinto with blue eyes.. He is LWO negative as both his parents came back negative, which indicates all three are splash carriers, kind of fun as it's like we have the extreme (his dam, with the funky face white, high whites and blue eyes), the medium (his sire with just the face white and blue eyes) and the minimal (the colt with just his blue eye)

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

She was purchased specifically for breeding with Spirit when she's older. He's been tested to be nn. So, I guess what this means is I certainly won't get a LWO foal but I may get a pinto foal? Or in this case it would be a pinto buckskin. Because even though she's not visaully a pinto you're saying she carries something. Do I understand?

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

She was purchased specifically for breeding with Spirit when she's older. He's been tested to be nn. So, I guess what this means is I certainly won't get a LWO foal but I may get a pinto foal? Or in this case it would be a pinto buckskin. Because even though she's not visaully a pinto you're saying she carries something. Do I understand?

You're correct in that if she is bred to Spirit, since he is nn, you have no worries of producing a lethal white foal..

Now she IS carrying either the frame/LWO gene (making her n/O if she is) OR she is carrying the splash gene because she has a blue eye and those two genes are the only ones responsible for blue eyes..

The only way to know 100% which one it is (course she could very well carry both, but I highly doubt it since the only characteristics she showing are very minimal) is to test for LWO since there is no splash test..

As for your resulting foal from the cross, more than likely it will be solid or carry/express which ever gene(s) the mare carries..

If she comes back LWO positive then you have a 50/50 chance of the foal being nn or n/O (LWO carrier), as far as how much color, it's a crapshoot, she could throw a loud foal or she could very well throw a minimal one like herself..

If she comes back LWO negative, then you know she carries splash, and again how much color is expressed who knows as you can see by my three

Here's the three I was refering too, all three are splash carriers as they tested LWO negative, yet with all that color on both sire and dam, we ended up with a solid colt (course the appy is starting to come into play now)

Tango (tobiano and splash) sire is tobiano, dam no idea

Sky (appaloosa and splash) sire is black near leopard, dam was chestnut/sorrel with wide blaze

And their resulting foal TJ:

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Well, I can't stand not knowing (obviously since I tested him for LWO and there was really no reason to) so I'll just have to have her tested. I'll post the results when I do. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Allure Ranch]

She was purchased specifically for breeding with Spirit when she's older. He's been tested to be nn. So, I guess what this means is I certainly won't get a LWO foal but I may get a pinto foal? Or in this case it would be a pinto buckskin. Because even though she's not visaully a pinto you're saying she carries something. Do I understand?

You're correct in that if she is bred to Spirit, since he is nn, you have no worries of producing a lethal white foal..

Now she IS carrying either the frame/LWO gene (making her n/O if she is) OR she is carrying the splash gene because she has a blue eye and those two genes are the only ones responsible for blue eyes..

The only way to know 100% which one it is (course she could very well carry both, but I highly doubt it since the only characteristics she showing are very minimal) is to test for LWO since there is no splash test..

As for your resulting foal from the cross, more than likely it will be solid or carry/express which ever gene(s) the mare carries..

If she comes back LWO positive then you have a 50/50 chance of the foal being nn or n/O (LWO carrier), as far as how much color, it's a crapshoot, she could throw a loud foal or she could very well throw a minimal one like herself..

If she comes back LWO negative, then you know she carries splash, and again how much color is expressed who knows as you can see by my three

Here's the three I was refering too, all three are splash carriers as they tested LWO negative, yet with all that color on both sire and dam, we ended up with a solid colt (course the appy is starting to come into play now)

Tango (tobiano and splash) sire is tobiano, dam no idea

Sky (appaloosa and splash) sire is black near leopard, dam was chestnut/sorrel with wide blaze

And their resulting foal TJ:

[SIZE=12pt]Would you mind telling me how you account for hazel eyes on a Silver Dunskin? Our stallion "Marystown Mercedes" is a direct son of "Little King Santana Supreme" and his dam is "Marystown Missy" a Solid Palomino. "Mercedes" himself has beautiful hazel eyes and he produces crystal blue eyes along with green and hazel on his foals.[/SIZE]

Kimberle Young

Allure Ranch

http://www.allureranch.com

 

[love_casper]

I haven't read every word of this thread but just wanted to add that although the question was about the blue eye meaning some kind of pinto........ it's actually ALL white markings.

and tobiano doesn't cause face white by its self.

so ANY horse with ANY face white at all (star, snip, blaze) is either sabino, frame, or splash. But blue eyes of course are frame/splash only.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

so ANY horse with ANY face white at all (star, snip, blaze) is either sabino, frame, or splash. But blue eyes of course are frame/splash only.

OK, now I'm really confused. All my horses with blazes are pintos?

 

[Minimor]

yes.

Or at least sort of. I was going to point out that your Ericca, with her star, strip and snip, has more than just the blue eye that points to her carrying one or more pinto genes. I'm not sure that face white actually causes people to refer to a horse as "pinto" but it does mean that the horse is carrying at least one pinto gene. White leg markings are also caused by the pinto genes...

 

[Jill]

Here's my question...Does a blue eye mean the horse must carry some type of pinto?

Parmela --

I know you know this, but for others reading and learning, double dilutes will have blue eyes even if there are no pinto genes in them

Jill

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

OK, now I'm really confused. All my horses with blazes are pintos?

As of right now, yes lol And that includes every quarter horse out there with face white, because sabino is still lumped in with "overo".. Hopefully once they find all the sabino genes (believe they think there's 3-4 different ones) they'll seperate it into it's own category.. Sabino is also what gives the clydesdales the gorgeous white markings etc, yet no one considers them "pinto" as those white markings are typical of the breed..

Would you mind telling me how you account for hazel eyes on a Silver Dunskin? Our stallion "Marystown Mercedes" is a direct son of "Little King Santana Supreme" and his dam is "Marystown Missy" a Solid Palomino. "Mercedes" himself has beautiful hazel eyes and he produces crystal blue eyes along with green and hazel on his foals.

I'm not sure of this one, Alex or Rabbit would probably have the answer.. If he's throwing blue eyes then he or the mares are frame/splash

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

[SIZE=12pt]Would you mind telling me how you account for hazel eyes on a Silver Dunskin? Our stallion "Marystown Mercedes" is a direct son of "Little King Santana Supreme" and his dam is "Marystown Missy" a Solid Palomino. "Mercedes" himself has beautiful hazel eyes and he produces crystal blue eyes along with green and hazel on his foals.[/SIZE]

Kimberle Young

Allure Ranch

http://www.allureranch.com

We have actually been looking into this as well and we check the eyes of all of our foals now...it seems that all of the foals that aren't cremello but still seem to carry the creme gene tend to have the hazel colored eyes. Every buckskin we have has them and so do our smokey blacks

 

[Pwest2u2]

Ok, I have to ask some questions after ready this post. I have a filly all white with 2 blue eyes. She is out of 2 pinto's. Sire was a black/ white, dam chestnut/white. I was told she is a maximum expression! Sorry what ever that means. I wanted to register her pinto but not sure how I can. What should I have her tested for if anything not sure if I will ever breed her or just use her for a drving horse. Thanks for letting me squeeze in a ? on this thread.

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Ok, I have to ask some questions after ready this post. I have a filly all white with 2 blue eyes. She is out of 2 pinto's. Sire was a black/ white, dam chestnut/white. I was told she is a maximum expression! Sorry what ever that means. I wanted to register her pinto but not sure how I can. What should I have her tested for if anything not sure if I will ever breed her or just use her for a drving horse. Thanks for letting me squeeze in a ? on this thread.

Well she obviously carries splash and/or frame with the blue eyes, so with that, that's enough for me to test for LWO anymore..

As for her being all white, she's more than likely a maximum expressed sabino with other patterns going on as well.. I don't believe that splash alone can give you a solid "white" horse (Alex/Rabbit??) but do know that maximum expressed sabino can give you an all "white" horse and of course multiple patterns playing together can as well.. I'm assuming when you said pintos then sire/dam probably express tobiano? Do you have photos of them?

I have a friend who has an max expressed sabino sorrel APHA/PtHA halter filly, she's all white, sired by the crop out AQHA/APHA stallion GQ Santana who was LWO nn as well as her dam

 

[KrazyHorses]

One blue eye means what? splash or frame genes?

My mare (silver bay) has had 2 foals by 2 different stallions...and both have one blue eye. Of course, it won't matter much on the gelding, but my filly has one blue eye, too.

Does that mean she carries splash or frame genes?

I'm confused.

 

[Pwest2u2]

I have photos but I don't own horses so won't post on her. The sire has the wild jagged markings, while the dam has the big round type markings with about 50/50 coloring. I am so pinto marking dumb sorry! Can you tell me where to get her tested at? I am trying to learn this stuff, but it is a lot to take in that is for sure.

Well she obviously carries splash and/or frame with the blue eyes, so with that, that's enough for me to test for LWO anymore..

As for her being all white, she's more than likely a maximum expressed sabino with other patterns going on as well.. I don't believe that splash alone can give you a solid "white" horse (Alex/Rabbit??) but do know that maximum expressed sabino can give you an all "white" horse and of course multiple patterns playing together can as well.. I'm assuming when you said pintos then sire/dam probably express tobiano? Do you have photos of them?

I have a friend who has an max expressed sabino sorrel APHA/PtHA halter filly, she's all white, sired by the crop out AQHA/APHA stallion GQ Santana who was LWO nn as well as her dam

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

One blue eye means what? splash or frame genes?
My mare (silver bay) has had 2 foals by 2 different stallions...and both have one blue eye. Of course, it won't matter much on the gelding, but my filly has one blue eye, too.

Does that mean she carries splash or frame genes?

I'm confused.

ANY blue eye(s), whether it be one, both, a partial etc, is indicative of either the frame gene AND/OR the splash gene (as a horse can be one or the other or carry both)

Only way to know what your filly carries with the blue eye is to test her for LWO... Again, if she comes back positive then you know she carries the frame gene and still could possibly carry the splash gene, but no way to know 100% since there is no test for splash, unless she comes back LWO negative, then you WILL know she carries splash but not frame..

I have photos but I don't own horses so won't post on her. The sire has the wild jagged markings, while the dam has the big round type markings with about 50/50 coloring. I am so pinto marking dumb sorry! Can you tell me where to get her tested at? I am trying to learn this stuff, but it is a lot to take in that is for sure.

I use ANIMAL GENETICS for my testing.. LWO test runs $25, just print off the paper and follow the instructions and pull hair samples..

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I don't know why this is so difficult for me to grasp, but this thread is making my head spin!

As for amber eyes, my smokey black mare (hasn't been tested but has foaled a perlino so know she carries cream) has the most beautiful amber eyes. They are just gorgeous! There are several buckskins on the farm but only one of them has what I would call amber, but nothing close to as golden as Puddin's eyes are.