This is going to be a hot topic..............Regional Shows

[CLC Stables]

As far as the judge trend, yes you are right, but I am finding that more and more judges are going back to get their cards for all 3 as the trend is going toward the Triple Shows.

$550, that is crazy, does that include everything, or JUST a day fee??

We pay about $300 plus expenses.

Okay Mary Lou, but it is okay for them to hold the regional show and have shetlands every once in a while??? Eventhough they don't recognize shetlands in their club?

Again I sound like the devils advocate but I am trying to get a good overall answer.

 

[shminifancier]

As far as the judge trend, yes you are right, but I am finding that more and more judges are going back to get their cards for all 3 as the trend is going toward the Triple Shows.

$550, that is crazy, does that include everything, or JUST a day fee??

We pay about $300 plus expenses.

Okay Mary Lou, but it is okay for them to hold the regional show and have Shetlands every once in a while??? Even though they don't recognize Shetlands in their club?

Again I sound like the devils advocate but I am trying to get a good overall answer.

Some of the shows are negotiable for him. So the fee will vary some Yes a One day show if within driving distance is for him is $500 to 550 but will be lower for a 2 day show. And I do know he will Not go after all 3 cards...Nor will the other friend that is now in S.D. She will also stay with only 2...

 

[CLC Stables]

Wow, that is unfortunate, because when we hire judges we have them have all 3 cards, and it makes it hard when that wipes out about 50% of the judges.

 

[CLC Stables]

Okay thanks.

I am not saying that they would be forced. It would just be a requirement to hold the regional show you must have had shetland classes in years prior (not including other regional shows).

and just another little quip............chances are all shetland clubs, include miniature classes...................

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Hi Rob,

My understanding from our two AMHR/ASPC clubs is it can be an economy consideration as to what is offered per show. There are (correct me if I'm wrong) 132 classes that are required to receive an 'A' rating from AMHR/ASPC HQ.

Our area is lucky to get 40-60 horses at a show, so it can be expensive and time consuming to do a one day show and get through all the required classes. So they tend to select locations, class list, etc., that will hopefully pull the largest attendance with the least cost to the members, yet keep the club from going in the hole to host a show. It isn't just the Shetlands that get left out here (Northern CA). There are AMHR only, ASPC only and the combined shows. Honestly, I don't know the requirements to have one over the other!

It doesn't seem to be feasible to do 2 day show (the Area show is the only 3 days), because of the costs - not just ribbons, but the show staff, etc., - our clubs rely on volunteers which are few and far between to keep the overall costs down. They've even piggybacked the show dates with AMHA to boost attendance for both clubs, but California is expensive to show AMHA, let alone AMHR too. Even at the Area show many of the classes do not have more than 10 entries. This seems to be even less with the Shetlands. I don't think they had 10 in many of the classes last year, and we're in a strong Shetland market as far as trainers/breeders go.

Rob, if you have intentional abuse going on then I would think this needs to be reported to the HQ. That is unacceptable!

 

[CLC Stables]

No abuse, just a topic that is being discussed.

Your clubs though Michelle, support BOTH sides of the registry.............even when they don't have to.

 

[minimama]

Rob, I agree completely. And even more so since there are so few shows for the ponies. We should be supporting the registry and not just our own part of it. Whether it be the pony part or the mini part. I personally love to go and see the ponies too. Maybe AMHR should make that a sort of mandate that the area shows have to be all inclusive.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I have always been discouraged by the lack of shetland shows in my area. Pretty much there is a show in may and the regionals and the fair at timonium MD I think thats all there is for the shetlands. I have both and would love to show both but to come for example to one amhr show on one weekend and have to go back to the shetland show another weekend in the same month for me is fiscally not possible. Especially when gas and expenses are what they are..... I think it would behoove shows to combine even more into the same weekend or three days, add judges etc for us to have to only have 1 trip. A good example are Lennie Bertrands shows in Illinois... even Bruce is going from NY because we get more bang for our buck, one road trip lots of judges.... Wish more shows would do that.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

SDMini

You are right, we are not necassarily talking about the regional show.

However take a club I am with for instance. I do the ribbon orders, it was on the docket to CUT the shetlands, it was voted down, and here is why. I went through all the shetland classes and figured out ribbons, some we ordered 0, some 1, some 3, some 4.

With keeping the shetlands and working my numbers the RIBBON COSTS were $359.00 for the year. Was there a need to cut the shetlands, NO. It can be worked around.

In a dual show they might not pull their weight, but why would anyone want to get into them if there is no where to exhibit them year after year, or maybe only 3 shows have shetland classes.

OHHHHH I totally misunderstood what you were saying I apologize (maybe my brain is still frozen)

: I would think it would be in the clubs best interest to have shetland shows since if you have to choose between one with and one without.. you could be losing people how might have gone otherwise

Not to mention I would guess that if they had more pony classes perhaps all the misconceptions of the Shetland might be lessened

 

[disneyhorse]

When I first looked into getting minis I actually wanted to get Shetlands instead but there are NO shows even remotely close to me. Having no sheltand shows offered is going to further stunt the growth of ASPC, which you think the Registry wouldn't want? We are dealing with this subject in my club, it is AMHR only and the mini people don't want to shoulder any costs for ponies and our shows are already too huge with just minis, so even though local pony people are growing in numbers, there is nowhere for them to show. It is very sad, our Registry is BOTH pony AND mini after all!

Andrea

 

[Cathy_H]

I don't know all of the ins & outs of this. From a business sense I figure if you put demands on someone

(or club) you may be hurting more than one group of people. Demands being put on a local club/show which would require them to spend more money to accomodate everyone. If they try this but cannot continue due to extra costs & poor turn out the shows may be discontinued period.... This may cause a hardship on the regional shows as they may then have fewer places/ people willing to hold those shows....... Now you have decreased even further the only shows that some exhibitors have to attend, the original shows & the regionals............. As I said I don't know all the ins & outs as I leave the showing up to Lee. We have AMHA/AMHR & ASPC... Hey I would love it if he could travel one week end & show in all three. Now that's getting your dollars worth............ I'm not for requiring but I am for working with a local club /show to find out the why's & why nots. Once you find out the reasons ' why not' then you may be on the path to a "can do".

 

[horsefeather]

OK, let me add a couple of things here. We put on 2 shows a year. We used to do 3 shows, but cannot afford that now. We're lucky to come up with enough money for 2. We used to only have Miiniature AMHR shows, then the club wanted Shetlands. We put them in, then some wanted Classic and Foundation, we put them in. Then some insisted on Modern, we put them in. Then had to add Modern Pleasure classes.....and I'm scared that by next year we will be asked to add the newest 'Pony' classes (the Area shows will HAVE to have them this year, but at least the HQ furnishes the ribbons!). Long story short folks, it costs us over $6,000 to put a 2 day show on. We have cut as many corners as possible. We don't have a lot of members, but we are going to try handing out our own ribbons and having our own Ring Steward this year to save costs. Rob, where in the world do you get your ribbons???? We will have approx. 275 classes at each of our shows this year. We must have 6 ribbons for EACH class, times 2 for 2 judges. That's a LOT of ribbons. Now, folks do turn most of the ribbons from 3rd on down back in, but still, figure just 1st and 2nd place, reserve and grand champion ribbons...the cost is high....somewhere around $2,000 a year. Then there's the trophies! We will be sending out requests for sponsorships this year. With so many people wanting this class and that class added, we are going to have to have some help money wise, or raise our class fees, which we don't want to do.

Pam

 

[CLC Stables]

The majority of the ribbons in the PNW I find are given back to the clubs. We buy all our ribbons from Hodges now and that was the cost for what we needed. The rest was from Carryover from last year.

 

[ruffian]

The registered Shetland has been around a LOT longer than the registered Miniature horse. So my question would be why don't they have their own shows with a huge following like the miniatures? To insist that a club offer shetland classes on the years that they don't host the area shows is a huge economic load to carry. The club in Michigan does have the pony classes in the "off" years, and they are lucky to get 10 ponies -- and will have up to 100 miniatures. But they still have to have all the classes listed in the show bill, which adds to the printing and postage, plus they have to have the ribbons and judges. It also makes the show chaotic, because there will be pony class after pony class that don't have entries, or one pony stallion so the halter class is also the champion and grand champion class, so the mini exhibitor who thinks they have 15 classes till their next one, all of a sudden is in the next class.

The pony fanciers need to promote their animals the same way the miniature folks do - go out and join or create clubs, put on shows, and get the numbers up where they should be, and it won't be an issue.

Interesting topics!

 

[Buckskin gal]

Rob. Why didn't the clubs you belonged to have Shetland Classes? A number of clubs are Miniature hores Clubs and I would think that maybe it is just their preference to have minis only. Another thing is perhaps there just haven't been enough interest from Shetland owners to hold Shetland classes. To do a show of just miniatures takes a lot of time and adding Shetlands just may not always be feasible for a Miniature Horse Club. Could be a lot of other reasons also. Mary

"Politics" to me is very little of the show scene. It is MADE bigger than it is by few and far between problems, which can be handled in a lot better way than angry griping behind the scenes and after the fact.

What one hears after the problem has happened, and escalated, turns into a big fear factor for people who don't want to deal with such things and so they are afraid to show.

In fact, I doubt I've ever really been affected by what people call politics, though I'm not 100% sure of what that is, I think I know. If it's the rules and governing, it's there for a reason, and it's not perfect, that is why it changes frequently. If it's the "who you know" factor, that will always be there and it really doesn't much affect the people who show at a true amateur level/locally and for the most part, for fun.

That said, I do know that many people have both ASPC as well as AMHR overs and unders and to exclude them at any show is sad. I know that often there are not many ASPCs at some of the shows, but I like to see them, talk with the owners and learn more about the ponies. I could see myself having one at some point in time, they are great.

I hope it gets sorted out so we can all enjoy a show together the way it should be.

Liz M.

 

[Jean_B]

I think if you start mandating that in order to host an Area National Show (where it is REQUIRED that a full slate of miniature, classic, and modern classes be offered) -- that the club MUST also offer a full slate of classes when holding Non-Area shows....you aren't going to find too many clubs willing to bite that bullet except in some small regions of the country.

Yes, a club might be willing and able to do that in Illinois where the pony classes would be full -- but I have put on shows for many years. I KNOW what it costs. I know how many horses have to be in a class to make that class self-supporting. And if the club was required to offer a full slate of classes in order to host Area Nationals the next year - well, that show would be a bust because in many areas, there just aren't enough ponies.

Yes, the numbers are changing. There are more and more double ASPC/AMHR....but I think there is still a rule on the books (forgive me if I'm wrong) but a horse/pony cannot cross enter at the same show. It can show only as a mini or pony but not both. Now, the next weekend it can go to a show up the road and show in the other division, but not at that one show.

And the numbers at the shows is changing. I remember the day when darn near everyone (I'm talking non-trainers!!) hauled 6 or 7 horses to a show. These days, people are really pinching their pennies. Everything is costing more. They are going to a couple less shows a year, and hauling only their very best...maybe 2 or 3 animals. This means less income for the show. We used to have 240 to 250 horses on the Master Sheet at the shows in MN -- now they are happy when they have 130!!!!!

Ribbons are NOT the only cost associated with added classes. Judges want to know how many classes they will be judging. They will likely charge more if they have to judge 250 classes instead of 125. I know I sure as heck would charge more!

JMHO

 

[keeperofthehorses]

After reading Horsefeathers and Jean B's posts, I can't help but wonder if the number of classes (for either ponies or minis) has something to do with it. I took a quick glance at the rule book and wow! there are tons of classes for each size and division, and some seem repetitive. I wonder if clubs didn't have to offer so many classes then maybe they'd be more willing to offer pony classes? Maybe now that it has become more expensive to transport and show, the club would be willing to make optional some of the required classes that don't pull enough entries to pay for themselves, leaving funds for some of the more popular pony classes. Food for thought...

Oh, I also looked up cross entering, and you are right Jean, ASPC and AMHR may not cross-enter at the same show (pg. 234 K). I wonder what the reasoning is behind that, as it seems to me it would draw more entry fees? Maybe it would give Shetlands some sort of edge, as the cross-entering would only work one way (no hardships into ASPC).

I'm another one who doesn't show in the breed shows. I'd love to, but the distances are too great for me right now. Idaho has one show, clear on the other side of the state from me, and it's a mini-only show. I do show in open shows occasionally and am really interested in performance-related competitions, like CDEs. I'm amazed that in Boise, the state capital and the 3rd largest city in the PacNW, there is not one AMHR show, with or without ASPC.

Ramblings of an insomniac (I'll be great at mare-stare someday)... back to bed now...

 

[Karen S]

Good Morning,

For those of you that aren't familiar with class list, show qualifications etc. let me enlighten you a bit...

First, you have to ask (fill out paperwork) and pay a fee for any show to be sanctioned with the ASPC/AMHR Registry. The fee is based on the number of Judges you will have. Right now, our club, the ASPC/AMHR Club of North Texas host three club shows with two judges for each show. The fee's for this years shows were $210.00 (that's $35.00 per judge, per show). You then have to declare who your show management and staff will be, what type of facility and then you will work from a Show Managers packet that has everything you need to work with.

With what folks don't realize...everytime you "ask" for a rule change, add a mandatory class etc at convention it has to go into those managers packet. That is our bible. Last year our three club shows had 303 classes total for a two and a half day show. With all of the most recent changes our show bill this year will have around 370 classes with most of those classes being "required". If someone wants a particular class that is on the "optional" list, I then ask that they sponsor that class for the ribbons or guarantee me three entries in that class. They have a choice. We would put that class in for the year (we only print one show premium book for the year) and if no one other than that one person enters that class then as a show committee we make a decision to try it one more year or pull it.

Ribbons: I don't know why so many of you are having a hard time with the amount of money you are spending on ribbons. We have a list of all of our shows with how many entries are in those classes for the last five years. I use that to work up my ribbon count. Place 1-3 you always order a full set of ribbons for the full number of classes you have. Places 4-6 is on a percentage. I have yet to need more 4th, 5th, 6th place ribbons and our classes in our club show has grown by leaps and bounds. After each and every show I re-count all of my ribbons and only order those ribbons that I need. My ribbon bill doesn't get out of hand. Some of you are using Hodges Badge Ribbons (very nice ones at that) but go out on the internet and look for an individual that can make ribbons for you a lot cheaper (and most of the time look just like Hodges). You will be suprised at the amount of money you can save. We give nice Rosettes at our club shows and I also give a nice award for the Grand Champion and the Stakes Champion only.

Karen Shaw

Show Committee Chair

ASPC/AMHR Club of North Texas

 

[keeperofthehorses]

Karen;

I think you touched on another reason entries may be down. 370 classes over 2 1/2 to 3?? maybe 3 1/2 days... Unless the show is in your back yard add in another half day or day of travel in each direction. That's a big chunk of time, and lost work days, for the non-pros. Ideally, I'd like to be able to leave for a show on a Friday and be home Sunday night.

Maybe it's time that the directors, with the help of show managers, took a look at classes and entries and come up with a proposal to change, maybe just temporarily, some of the required classes to optional. If the regional clubs are struggling, and non-pros are struggling, it seems logical to make it easier to show AND put on a show.

 

[sami]

Rob.

I have judged that show and also thought it was a mandatory thing to have both divisions. I think that is something that should be brought to the attention of your Show committee and the ASPC AMHR Judges committee as well.

: I' surprised....... the only thing I can think of is, if someone might be thinking that the Ponies have the Congress (No miniatures and the (Regional / area) shows are pre qualifiers for the AMHR Nationals. Just a thought.

: Sami