Should we sell our studs and start over

[MBhorses]

HELLO,

I POSTED ABOUT OUR STUDS ON RAISING AND SELLING MINIS EARILER. NO ONE HAS INPUT ON IT. I AM TRYING THIS WAY.WE ARE WANTING TO BREED GOOD BLOODLINES FOALS AND WOULD LIKE PINTO AS WELL. I AM WONDERING IF I SHOULD SELL THE TWO STUDS I HAVE AND BUY TWO NEW STUDS. WE WOULD LIKE A NICE PINTO STALLION TO BREED TO OUR MARES AND MAYBE A PERLINO STUD.THE PERSON WHO THINKS THEY HAVE WHAT WE NEED NEEDS TO BE CLOSE TO MISSISSIPPI.

WE HAVE TWO NICE, VERY FRIENDLY STUDS WITH NICE BLOODLINES.

OUR GREY AMHA STUD AS DIPPERS DUFFY, AND KNELLS IN HIS BLOODLINES

WM SILVER LINNING THE GREY AMHA STUD

WM silver linnning first foal

sorrel and white Faith Farms jars of clay

thanks melissa

we are looking forward to breeding nice mini foals in the future.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Melissa,

I think you have some beautiful stallions! It has been said more than once on here...a good looking horse is more important than bloodlines.

The only thing I would have to say if you DO sell your stallions and want others, is to look for stallions with higher tailsets. Zephyr Woods in WI (I know they are a bit far) has a VERY NICE perlino colt for sale, here is the link he is the first one on the top... http://www.zephyrwoods.com/minis/sales.html he has a nice high tailset and is just beautiful! A good tailset is one that looks like it is coming right off the back just about...if the horse holds their tail out, it should look like a flat-line extension from the back.

Otherwise I really like your grey stallion, he is beautiful, and your pinto stallion is very nice too! Why do you not think they are good?

 

[ThreeCFarm]

I answered this on your other thread, regarding all of your horses. You'll find that many people won't respond to this type of thread anymore, due to some people coming on and saying they want a critique/opinion/suggestions, and then when they get any negative feedback, they get their feelings hurt.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

I just have to comment that no matter how many NEW people come on and ask questions...no one should ever say "we don't answer these questions anymore because of some other person that asked it...." regardless of the outcome, if feelings get hurt, that person openly invited people to critique their horse and they asked for that.

I wouldn't punish a new person who is looking for honest answers, just because some other people don't know how to take helpful criticism...you know? :bgrin

p.s. threecfarm I give you credit for being one of the people who does still answer honest questions =)

 

[MBhorses]

We were told the sorrel and white pinto has a small head and don't go with his body.

The grey stud is nice over all, but we are wanting to breed pinto and perlino, buckskins, palomino are we would keep the grey stud. We have had the grey stud since he was a yearling.We just got the sorrel and white about 2 mos ago.

thanks melissa

 

[ThreeCFarm]

regardless of the outcome, if feelings get hurt, that person openly invited people to critique their horse and they asked for that.

I fully agree, believe me!!

MBhorses, one of the faults you'll find that people won't like about your gray is his very low neck set. Even in the big horse world, you gray's neck is tied in entirely too low. Mini people are all about high tail and neck sets! Of course, the knowledgable ones still want that nicely put together horse, but the high tail and neck set are very important to those in halter, and the high neck set in driving as well.

 

[MBhorses]

Hello ThreeCfarms,

Could you post some pictures of the neck and tail set you are talking about, so I will know more about what to look for?We are new to the minis as of 3 yrs old. I am still learning. Somepeople will lie to you about their herds.

thanks Melissa

 

[anita]

Your studs looking good without question. The studs look a like doens't mean all his foals look after him.

What counts is his genetic and don't forget the mares. That means: 50% stud & 50% mare plus 4 times 25% grandparents. Actually grand-grandparents are out.

And keep in mind, if you want to breed for color the mares count 50% for the foals also.

I think mares are the most importend part in breeding. God bless our brood mares.

Hope it answers you question

Anita

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

You will find a LOT of nice high tailsets and neck sets at Arabian Echo Miniatures http://www.equineconsultants.net/index.html and great horses from Getitia - forgot her farm name???

 

[MBhorses]

Hello,

The sorrel and white sire is BREWERS MAJOR DEALER.

THE GREY SIRE IS KNELLS CUSTOM MADE.

THANKS MELISSA

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Melissa, I also forgot to say i don't think your stallions head is too small...a lot of breeders these days are aiming for shorter heads, obviously not TOO short, but I don't think your pinto stallion has too small of a head at all, I think it's great for today's breeding

His sire is very pretty!!! He has a nice tailset, slightly low but not bad at all =)

 

[MBhorses]

Hello,

The sorrel and white pinto stud sire is only 28.25 inches. The sorrel and white is 31.75 inches.

The grey stud is about 31.25, I haven't measure him lately.

thanks melissa

 

[Margo_C-T]

I commend you for publishing better photos, overall, than many that we see here! Even so, though, it is not possible to 'see' nearly all that one would like to see about a horse's conformation in a single photo. That said- I would not use either horse for breeding-nor would I suggest selling them as breeding stock. Geld both, then sell, or keep them to train and enjoy, or sell for someone else to, as performance horses or sweet pets.

With the grey horse-he lacks refinement, overall. Back is too long, coupling weak and too long, too much angulation of the croup, point of hip to stifle, stifle to hock. Shallow through the heart girth.

With the sorrel pinto-again, a lack of refinement overall. His head certainly isn't 'too small'(I have NEVER seen a miniature horse whose head could be described as 'too small'!)He is overall, somewhat plain; his neck is poorly-shaped, and appears thick through the throatlatch. Back(entire torso, actually)is too long, and he is very lacking in musculature through the stifle/'britchen' area. His bone structure appears VERY heavy and somewhat coarse, as reflected in the mid-leg joints(hocks, knees) and lower legs.

Do both horses also have some better characteristics? Of course; most horses are a 'mix' of the better and the not-as-good when it comes to their conformation. However, it is my firm belief that only the MOST SUPERIOR should be kept as breeding stallions(and not just in miniature horses, either!)

With all due respect, I would also suggest that you look for outstanding individuals FIRST, with both color and pedigree as secondary. If planning to breed, unless you have years of successful experience in horse breeding, you should spend a LOT of time doing research, both in every aspect of breeding AND about the realities of the potential sales market, before purchasing breeding stock, especially stallions. An excellent start would be to join both breed associations and subscribe to their magazines; also, go to approved AMHA and AMHR shows of some size to see what type of horse is doing well in the show ring there. Find ways to learn about all aspects of correct conformation; there are excellent books and online resources available if you search. Good luck!

Margo

 

[kaykay]

hi there

First i agree with everythign margo said above

i just went and read your other post regarding your mares. Please before you buy any other horses take the time to really educate yourself on them! Research pedigrees, type, conformation, dwarfism etc. Try to find a mentor to help you along the way. then after you do all this research you will know what it is YOU like and what you want to breed for. Visit some farms and really pick their brains. Then you can go buy a horse with confidence and know exactly what to look for and what you want. Also keep in mind to try and think ahead 3-5 years. Since getting a foal on the ground takes almost a year you have to always be thinking ahead about crosses etc.

NEVER be in a hurry to buy a horse. Its a huge decision especially if its a horse you are going to breed.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I have to agree with MArgot. I just came back from nationals and if show horses are what you desire to produce then you will need to have that quality of stallion. I would sell them both and put that money together to upgrade. Unfortunately the horses you have shown us here are pet quality and I would personally not breed either of the stallions or the fillies. You have said several times on these threads that you want to produce show horses..... I will get flamed for saying this but to get show horses you need to start with show horses with good conformation and still it is a crap shoot. Lots of pets are produced by national champions and get and grand get of those champions have diluted strength genes at best unless they are heavily line bred for a specific type. I am often not popular for my opinion but I have bought, bred and raised national placing horses and believe that I have the experience to back up my opinions. I hope you are not too offended. You did ask and we would like to help you. Here are pics of my two stallions, not the be all and end all horses but examples of good stallions.[/SIZE]

Tart is a little long bodied but he did go top 10 at nationals every year since he was a weanling and he is now 3

Breeze shows an example of a well set on neck.

Midas is a light palamino and white and shows a good neck placement. Kear to eye and eye to muzzle lengths are equal on his head, He has a large eye. He is short backed with a decent crppi[ and tail set. He didnt place at nationals this year . He and lots of other great horses got the gate. HE was the smallest horse in his 2 year old over class at 33.5 inches. most of the others were at least 37.

What Im trying to say with all this is.... go to the other breeders sites and look at all the stallions. Compare your horses to them as well as the winning mares and see where yours come in comparison. The only reason I posted pics of my horses is because you asked for pictures of good necks. We can only post our own pics. Maybe there are others as well who will.

Lyn

 

[JWC sr.]

I am not going to get into the critiquing of your horses, but only add that when you are looking for breeding animals I strongly suggest you consider the following.

You are looking for animals that produce the type of conformation that you desire. One of the reasons you see Buckeroo and Patton being so prominent in the breed is that they and thier offspring produce on a regular basis a certain look and/or characteristics. The reason we have settled on the stallions we have are for that same reason. In the past we have had some really beautiful stallions which was great for the show ring, but when it came to breeding they did not reproduce the characteristics that made them win. Therefore they are no longer in our herd or are geldings.

Even though you love a horse for his dispostion etc., don't make the mistake of being Barn Blind which we all are sometimes when it comes to the animals we love. If you want a sucessful breeding program there is a process of culling that needs to go on yearly, in order to continually improve your herd. It is difficult sometimes to make the decision you have to make on an unbiased basis with no regard to the nuances of the individual animal involved.

Just our two cents worth, if we can be of help let us know. And by the way welcome!!

:saludando:

 

[Ashley]

Well here goes me and my big mouth, and I am sure I will get in trouble. However if it were me I would GELD both of them boys and start with something new.

 

[midnight star stables]

IMHO I agree 100% with Margo, Lyn and Ashley. Each of them took the words out of my mouth! I am now a big fan of gelding and have two. I also have a stallion that if he wasn't so old, I'd geld too. JMO though...

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

I'm going to be perfectly honest here too and also say that those boys are not stallion quality. I'm sorry but just had to say it. To me they would be the perfect gelding canidates. Geld them sell/or keep them, or if you can't afford to geld them, then yes I would sell them.

If you want to start your herd fresh, and by looking at recent pics from your herd, I would seriously think hard on your decision on which will be the perfect stallion for your herd. Have someone to help you. Go to shows, find something there, Nationals is a great place, or go to the AMHA World Show thats coming up since it looks like your desire is to breed 34" & under horses.

:

 

[RockRiverTiff]

First the bad news--I agree with the general consensus. Your guys are cute, but if you really want to breed for show quality you have to start with it, and these stallions are not show quality.

That said, I have also seen your post on your mares and I want to COMMEND YOU for having the courage and integrity to question your herd. I think you'll find the people here can be very helpful. You might need to make some changes to your herd, but just by taking the initiative here and educating yourself on what you need to do to have the breeding program you want you have taken a HUGE step in the right direction. Good luck and I look forward to seeing your foals in the showring in the future!