Rules Committe Meeting Minutes
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Kim
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We covered this on another thread, I believe. The rule change that was proposed and passed at the annual meeting was a bylaw change, not the Show Rules change. The Show Rules change was the one that was voted against by the Show Rules committee. So no, it's not illegal that the rule passed.
It was a By-Law change to measure at the base of the withers. The By-Law Committee did not take internal votes of whether to 'pass' or 'fail' a Proposal to decide whether it was brought to the Membership at the Annual Meeting.
Our job was to make sure the proposals, as submitted, were clear, and if they were not, to get input from the person making the proposal so that it could be worded more clearly.
Proposals came out of the Committe as: "Committee Recommends", " Committee has no recommendation", or "Committee does not recommend", however, these were only suggestions from the Committee. All of the proposals, unless they were withdrawn by the person proposing it, were sent forward for the Membership to vote on.
The Membership at the Meeting had a printed list of all the proposed By-Law changes, and each one had the Committee's recommendation listed below it. The recommendation, or not, of the Committee did not seem to have much bearing on the 'pass' or 'fail' of any proposal.
Two proposals related to the measuring place were voted on. First the 'highest point of the withers' which was strongly defeated. It was followed by the one for the 'base of the withers'. It passed by a large margin.
Our job was to make sure the proposals, as submitted, were clear, and if they were not, to get input from the person making the proposal so that it could be worded more clearly.
Proposals came out of the Committe as: "Committee Recommends", " Committee has no recommendation", or "Committee does not recommend", however, these were only suggestions from the Committee. All of the proposals, unless they were withdrawn by the person proposing it, were sent forward for the Membership to vote on.
The Membership at the Meeting had a printed list of all the proposed By-Law changes, and each one had the Committee's recommendation listed below it. The recommendation, or not, of the Committee did not seem to have much bearing on the 'pass' or 'fail' of any proposal.
Two proposals related to the measuring place were voted on. First the 'highest point of the withers' which was strongly defeated. It was followed by the one for the 'base of the withers'. It passed by a large margin.
There are three 'Rules' committees. One is the By-Laws, one is the 'Rules and Regulations', and the other is the 'Show Rules'. Each has a different method of operation. Show Rules members are voted on, the other committees are made of volunteers.
The By-Laws Committe doesn't get to 'choose' which rules go forward to the Membership. Since the By-Laws 'trump' all other rules, to amend them requires a 2/3 majority of the Membership present and voting at the Annual Meeting to vote for a change. Once a By-Law is changed, all other Rules and Regulations, and Show Rules have to be changed to conform to the By-Law that was changed.
Other 'Rules and Regulations' and 'Show Rules' are passed by a simple majority of the Membership. The Rules and Regulations committe has to make sure that no Rule or Regulation change proposal goes against a By-Law, if it does then the proposal is not valid, as a Rule can't be in opposition to a By-Law. That is a part of what the Committe does, as well as helping to clarify the wording if it is unclear. If a Rule or Regulation is in conflict with a Show Rule, then the Show Rule Committe has to be involved also.
The Show Rule Committe is really the only committe that 'kills' a proposal by a vote within the Committee, although the proposer of the rule can still attempt to get it to the Membership by following the procedures listed in the rule book. The Show Rules committee is an elected committee so they are given more 'clout' than the other committees to vote down proposals.
I don't know why the minutes of the By-Law Committee are not on the website. I can assure you that nothing was 'designed' to hide anything. All the By-Law change proposals were printed in the Miniature Horse World for all the world to see.
I have posted on other threads that I am personally vehemently opposed to the rule to measure at the base of the withers. Since I was on the Committe, I saw the proposal to measure there, but honestly didn't pay it much attention. Tragically, as it turned out, I had dismissed it completley as I thought the idea was too silly/ludicrous for any 'real' horse people to give it consideration, let alone actually vote by a 2/3 majority for it pass.
If you are interested in trying to get this rule overturned, then you are more than welcome to join me and others who are seeking constructive ways to get this rule blocked before it takes effect to the detriment of the AMHA.
Julie Miller
[email protected]
The By-Laws Committe doesn't get to 'choose' which rules go forward to the Membership. Since the By-Laws 'trump' all other rules, to amend them requires a 2/3 majority of the Membership present and voting at the Annual Meeting to vote for a change. Once a By-Law is changed, all other Rules and Regulations, and Show Rules have to be changed to conform to the By-Law that was changed.
Other 'Rules and Regulations' and 'Show Rules' are passed by a simple majority of the Membership. The Rules and Regulations committe has to make sure that no Rule or Regulation change proposal goes against a By-Law, if it does then the proposal is not valid, as a Rule can't be in opposition to a By-Law. That is a part of what the Committe does, as well as helping to clarify the wording if it is unclear. If a Rule or Regulation is in conflict with a Show Rule, then the Show Rule Committe has to be involved also.
The Show Rule Committe is really the only committe that 'kills' a proposal by a vote within the Committee, although the proposer of the rule can still attempt to get it to the Membership by following the procedures listed in the rule book. The Show Rules committee is an elected committee so they are given more 'clout' than the other committees to vote down proposals.
I don't know why the minutes of the By-Law Committee are not on the website. I can assure you that nothing was 'designed' to hide anything. All the By-Law change proposals were printed in the Miniature Horse World for all the world to see.
I have posted on other threads that I am personally vehemently opposed to the rule to measure at the base of the withers. Since I was on the Committe, I saw the proposal to measure there, but honestly didn't pay it much attention. Tragically, as it turned out, I had dismissed it completley as I thought the idea was too silly/ludicrous for any 'real' horse people to give it consideration, let alone actually vote by a 2/3 majority for it pass.
If you are interested in trying to get this rule overturned, then you are more than welcome to join me and others who are seeking constructive ways to get this rule blocked before it takes effect to the detriment of the AMHA.
Julie Miller
[email protected]
I don't have any notes (and I have no memory), but I think I know what proably happened. If it failed at the meeting in Feb 2007, then it was probably resubmitted, to the correct committee, before the person left the Feb 2007 Meeting. That would have put it back in the queue to be considered at the June 2007 meeting, and then on to the Feb 2008 meeting to be voted on.
My proposal to measure at the top of the withers failed at this Feb 2008 meeting, and I resubmitted it before I left the meeting. So, it is back in the queue for the June 2008 meeting and then the Feb 2009 meeting.
Sorry, I don't have any specific information for you.
My proposal to measure at the top of the withers failed at this Feb 2008 meeting, and I resubmitted it before I left the meeting. So, it is back in the queue for the June 2008 meeting and then the Feb 2009 meeting.
Sorry, I don't have any specific information for you.
minimomNC
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The committees meet only before the General Membership meeting, not after. So anything submitted before the end of the General Membership meeting is in a timely manner but it has not been discussed by the committee yet so there would be no place to put it in any minutes. If it goes forward at the June meeting, it will be listed in the MHW at least 60 days prior to the annual meeting. Which means it will be in the Dec MHW.
Songcatcher
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One very positive outcome I can see from all of this is that members are learning much more about how the government of their association works. VERY frustrating, but a learning experience for all.
minimomNC is correct. A rule change proposal submitted after the General membership meeting (which occurs after the committees meet), but before the actual close of the annual meeting is not seen by a committee until the June meeting.
The proposals put in at the meeting are not actually given to the committees, but written on the rule change proposal form and handed in to any AMHA staff member.
The proposals put in at the meeting are not actually given to the committees, but written on the rule change proposal form and handed in to any AMHA staff member.
Charlotte
Well-Known Member
Julie & Karen, thank you both for taking the time to spell out in great detail the 'way it works'.
We are an organization with good sound rules but so many of them that it can be hard to follow the process if a person doesn't really study it.
Thank you both.
Charlotte
We are an organization with good sound rules but so many of them that it can be hard to follow the process if a person doesn't really study it.
Thank you both.
Charlotte
Dona
Well-Known Member
I have one question.
We've been told over & over, to be able to get a "change" passed, it must be worded just right, everything taken into consideration & explained how it would work, etc., etc.
So....how was this new measuring by-law passed when ALL repercussions were not considered & straightened out BEFORE submitting the proposal?
There are all kinds of questions about this now, & how it's going to work, that we have no answers for.
Like others have said.....it was done "back @ssward".... seems like someone was in a hurry to push it thru.
We've been told over & over, to be able to get a "change" passed, it must be worded just right, everything taken into consideration & explained how it would work, etc., etc.
So....how was this new measuring by-law passed when ALL repercussions were not considered & straightened out BEFORE submitting the proposal?
There are all kinds of questions about this now, & how it's going to work, that we have no answers for.
Like others have said.....it was done "back @ssward".... seems like someone was in a hurry to push it thru.
sfmini
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Committees do not keep minutes per se, but the chairs for each committee is required to submit a report to the AMHA president by the end of the meeting. I have never seen those reports but am going to propose that the new members only section of the AMHA website (coming soon, I hope) will contain those reports as well as the proposals that they discuss in an effort to keep people more informed.
I understand that people are frustrated with the length of time the process takes, but there are very good reasons for that, one being that it prevents rule changes from being pushed in when nobody is looking. It also gives those who feel strongly about an issue the time to arrange to attend a meeting or make their feelings known to their directors.
As a director entering my 4th year, I can say that I have only heard from one member about an issue and that was a few years ago. I was warned by my predecessor that when the annual meeting approaches I should expect my fax and email to go nuts. Nope, crazy quiet.
I understand that people are frustrated with the length of time the process takes, but there are very good reasons for that, one being that it prevents rule changes from being pushed in when nobody is looking. It also gives those who feel strongly about an issue the time to arrange to attend a meeting or make their feelings known to their directors.
As a director entering my 4th year, I can say that I have only heard from one member about an issue and that was a few years ago. I was warned by my predecessor that when the annual meeting approaches I should expect my fax and email to go nuts. Nope, crazy quiet.
maestoso
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R3, I commend you on your patience in this thread. Personally I would have stopped trying several posts ago because it is almost like your talking to a wall. Thank you for sharing your information, and it DOES make sense, for anyone who is being reasonable and trying to understand.
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