retaining a foal question.. continued

[horsegal5]

 


Well I finally emailed her back, I will start with the beginning email for those of you who don't remember this. I also didn't think I had the right to just go pickup the mare , as she did purchase her...


Well her it is from the beginning, and the email I just sent her and the one she sent back. Just wanted your opinion on this again. I will also be giving this info to my lawyer. I will never, never, ever sell or buy again without a detailed contract...

 


This is my orginal email to her:

 


Hi, I was wondering how Cora was doing? We are almost done our barn, and will have 10 stalls when done. My daughter can't wait to have a new Cora baby here. We still have her colt and are hoping for a filly. We would love to see some current pictures of her if you have them.

 


This is what she wrote back:

 


Cora is well, getting large. She has taken her pre foaling shots to date all in stride. Vet coming end Jan. to give final shot, he left her last Rhino for me to give end Dec. We figured from you calculations the beginning of March is her time, so when he returns in Jan. he will leave me with any necessary med's (for foal or Cora) etc to see us thru the event. He is also going to go over things to watch for, extra ideas to button up the barn(no drafts) as we are doing this at a very risky time of yr . We can only hope we aren't -20 and windy.


Needless to say we are excited but anxious as well.Cora is no spring chicken.

 


We are sure you know the expenses of Pre Foaling vet checks and those that can be accumulated there after given any problems. Therefore, we will keep track of the Vet bills regarding the pregnancy/foaling, as well as foal care/board fees(monthly chg of $50.00) for you as you are the "owner" of the foal. We will send you a monthly bill beginning in Jan. leaving the final balance due upon pick up of foal @ approx. 4 month of age or appropriate weaning time.

 


So I wrote this back to her:

 


If you are not comfortable foaling her out there, I can take her back about a month before she foals, and foal her out here, until after she weans the foal. We have two very nice foaling stalls. We also have a camera right in the stall which is on 24/7. Cora foaled for us 2 yrs ago as you know, and she had no problems what so ever. I have been in contact with her former owner, and she always foaled with no problems. So I don't forsee any problems. I would also like detailed copys of all vet bills so far. And since it is my foal, I would like to ok any furture vet visits, shots, etc. pertaining to the foal only, unless it is an emergency. Also my vet only recommends the Rhinopneumonitis shot for pregnant mares, and will not give any others while the mare is pregnant, so I hope that any other shots that you gave Cora, does not adversely affect my foal. I will also provide a blanket for the foal before it is born and ship it up to you to keep him/her warm and toasty. And I will pay for any feed (ok'd by me first) that the foal will need till it is weaned. Let me know what you decide and have a Great New Year.

 


And this is what she wrote back to me this morning:

 


**Thanks for the offer but we will keep Cora here for birth. I don't believe movement of a prego mares is advisable, not that we would consider it anyway. Im sure we will have an un-eventful time, but best safe than sorry!

 


**I have a foal blanket but will accept yours to use as well and keep ours for extra if needed.

 


** I will fwd copies of original vet rcpt to you. (send me you address, this way I have it on my computer file ).

 


** At end of January she, Cora, will get Tetanus, a standard shot for mares.

 


***Then we wait.

 


***The monthly fee of $50.00(from birth to weaning/Pick up) will cover feed/hay


( not much~more so near weaning) general handling/ transition time handling( so weaning is not traumatic to either one), as well as general care of foal/grooming etc. Im sure you will agree this is very fair. We are known to put a lot of time into our little one's.

 


Anything extra( worming/Vet care etc) I will call you for approval first. If I for see anything that might need to be handled, naturally, I will call you right away, and let you know what is going on, and let the final decision be yours.

 

 

 


Grrh! I don't want her giving the mare the tetanus shot, as my vet said she doesn't give any shots to a pregnant mare but the Rhinopneumonitis shots. Well I am copying everything and sending it to the lawyer... Contracts, Contracts, Contracts from now on.....

 

 

 

[Miniv]

How far along is the mare?

My husband doesn't have a problem transporting pregnant mares until they hit their last month. It's the last 4 weeks to worry about because of stress.

IMO, the lady is dictating to YOU how things should be managed and it should be mutual.

MA

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree- and you have nothing to lose by getting a little tougher. I think you need to remind her that none of this was mentioned, let alone agreed to, and you will not be paying the ridiculously exorbitant charge- who ever heard of charging "board and keep " for a foal at foot. If she gets nasty just tell her maybe she should keep the foal (which will not be registrable) instead of the Vets bills. The tetanus shot will not harm her but, if she intends to have the Vet out after the mare foals- and if I foal out for someone else I always do have this check done- then the foal will be given a tetanus shot then and a booster is not necessary.

Tell her you take the mare back to foal, now, or it odes not happen and you will be sending her a bill for the difference is the value. She cannot have it both ways.

I agree, though, this is exactly why you have to have a proper contract.

 

[Minimor]

I am frankly appalled that this person is wanting to charge you all this money. Two or 3 years ago we looked at buying a mare under similar conditions--it was around this time of year when the mare was offered to us, & she was due to foal in June. The mare's price included her foal if it were a colt; if she were to have a filly then the seller had the option of taking the filly back if she chose to. Had we accepted that offer and the seller did end up taking the foal back....we would not have even THOUGHT of charging her for vet bills, foal care/feed. The way I look at it, we'd have bought the mare knowing she was in foal--that automatically means that she would get a slightly different sort of feed than if she were open; I look at the enhanced feeding program as being what is good for "my" mare, not just because of "your" foal. We do not get the vet for routine care of our bred mares--we're a do-it-ourself operation here, with the vet being called only for emergencies and specific procedures such as gelding---so we wouldn't have routine vet charges for vaccinations & whatever else. As for foaling problems, if a vet were needed, that could hurt, but again we'd have bought the bred mare knowing the risk of potential foaling difficulties & if a vet is needed then a vet is needed, it isn't just for the foal, it's for the mare too. Anyone planning on charging the seller the things this buyer is wanting to charge you should have made that all clear prior to closing the deal.

Now once the foal is here it is your foal & if there was some problem with the foal so that veterinary attention was required then I can see that being your expense.

As I recall from your earlier post, you took $300 off the price of the mare in exchange for your getting the foal back. That was the terms of the deal. Buyer said nothing at that time about what she expected to collect from you for foaling out the mare & feeding the foal. As for $50/month for keeping the foal, oh come on. I see nothing fair about any of this.

I still say I would forfeit that $300 you knocked off the price rather than pay this woman a cent. I don't know what you sold the mare for, but by the time you pay the board & all these vet fees you will be paying a lot of money to get that foal back.

edited to add--I agree with rabbitsfizz--send a bill for the difference on the mare's price, & tell her that in view of her ridiculous demands she must keep the foal & pay the full price for the mare. If she doesn't want the foal it will be up for sale at weaning, & you may be able to buy it back (even if you must get a friend to go & buy it for you!) for less money than she is trying to collect from you now!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I will NEVER EVER EVER again sell a mare in foal with a foal i intend to keep. I did it one time and I will tell you both me and the buyer did get a bit testy towards the end. The orginal plan was for me to foal out the mare and keep her here till foal was weaned but I did agree to change it and the foal went there.

We did work it out and it was ok (and we are still friends)

however I wont lie there were some very tense times on both sides of the fence.

From now on if I want the foal.... I keep the horse until it foals period.

 

[shminifancier]

I also agree Lisa on this..If a person wants the foal gosh why not wait till she foals and go from there? I also would not sell a mare in foal with the understanding I want that foal.

 

[Happy]

l would never trust someone else to foal out a mare who l had a deal with because l wanted the foal. sometimes its done and there is no foal and it isnt because something went wrong with the animals. you need a lot of faith and an iron clad contract you can afford to back up.

 

[horsegal5]

 


I didn't intend to keep the foal at first, the mare was for sale in foal. This woman wanted her because she is good with kids for her little kids lesson program, and she had just lost her other mini. But she wanted the mare , but really didn't want a foal. So I offered to sell the mare for a reduced price and I would take the foal after weaning. She need the mare right away because her lesson program was starting soon. This mare was only a couple of months in foal when I sold her. She is now due the beginning of March, and only about 1 1/2 hrs from me , so I don't think she would be indangering the foal by moving it at this time.

 

[Ashley]

I dont see anything wrong with giveing a tetnus shot. Most of our mares get them before they foal. Never had a problem.

 

[yankee_minis]

There should be NO problem transporting her that short distance (1.5 hours) at this point in her pregnancy.

This woman needs to be reminded that you already paid for all of the "care" when you reduced the price. In essence, you gave her $300 already. As already said here, she can't have it both ways.

There is nothing extra to caring for a mare with a foal at her side. Okay, so maybe you can't walk *beside* them when they go through a gate together, but that's about it. I would hope that she could deal with that.

$50.00(from birth to weaning/Pick up) will cover feed/hay

A suckling is never going to eat $50 hay/grain in the 4 months before they are weaned. I can't imagine that. That's absolutely outrageous!
She bought a pregnant mare. She wanted it right then and there. She gets to pay for a lot of that. If she doesn't want to pay for those extra costs then she has no right to demand that you pay HER to do it.

You have every right to demand that you foal out the mare at your own place and pay for it the way you want.

And besides!!! She's making this up as she goes along and that's not okay.

You may not have had a written contract regarding this, but you also had no oral contract. There was no agreement beforehand (which is clear from the e-mails) and she can't make it up now.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Yankee it was $50.00 A MONTH!!!! not for the whole period, and more towards the end because obviously the foal will eat more!!

Added to which, you should be charging her for using the foals in her lesson programme, OR the mare should be pulled from the programme for the full four month- No, this is just not satisfactory, get her to pay you the rest of the money or go and pick the mare up- ten to one she does not want the mare to go because she is still using her in the lessons, and will be right up til she foals!!!

 

[HGFarm]

I certainly agree with Rabbitz and everyone on this one. That is ridiculous seeing as how a newborn baby mini does not eat enough to even account for anything!!! Sounds like she is attempting to include 'training' in the $50.00 per month fee.

And absolutely, it should have all been in writing before the mare left, as to what would and wouldnt be done..... Sounds like you are going to have to get a bit firmer on what you want, and try to come to a mutual agreement.