Real (english) shetlands...

Discussion in 'Pony Talk' started by Ouburgia, Aug 28, 2008.

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  1. Aug 30, 2008 #21

    TripleDstables

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    I love the original shetlands. American Shetlands aren't. They simply aren't shetlands. They are Hackney looking things. Pretty in their own way, but they don't deserve the shetland name.

    I think that the american "anything" is getting to refined... America is getting too refined! lol [​IMG]

    But, I always love having a little more bone to my horses/ponies. And I like them to have a sweet attitude with a little spark when needed. ;)
     
  2. Aug 30, 2008 #22

    Lewella

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    Of course they aren't anything like the Shetlands from the Shetland Islands - the US importers wanted more refined ponies, the Island breeders wanted the more drafty type. The Island breeders sold their (refined) culls to the US importers while the US importers were of the opinion they were getting the best stock! [​IMG] Howard B is a great example of what the US importers desired from the beginning and what they brought over. [​IMG]
     
  3. Aug 31, 2008 #23

    babygoose

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    Me too. I never could understand the need to change a breed. If the breed isn't what someone likes, why not find another breed instead of change the original one. I love the traditional island shetlands.
     
  4. Aug 31, 2008 #24

    Keri

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    Everyone has their opinions on this. I just think that these 2 horses have different purposes. Back overseas, they use their horses for work (farm work still, etc). In America, we don't use them the same way and prefer a "pretty" pasture pet (they aren't just pasture pets, but they do have jobs). We breed horses for what suites us best. Granted they are different, but they are still the same blood as the english ponies. They can all probably be traced back to the beginner ponies. Genes just crossed and Americans bought the more refined ones becuase england didn't have a use for them. And therefore, that's why we call them American shetlands. Not just shetlands. Same as the dog breeds. How many terriers can you think of??? All share the terrier name, but have a prefix distingushing them from one another.

    So in the end, yes american shetlands have the right to be called shetlands.
     
  5. Aug 31, 2008 #25

    alphahorses

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    Lewella's point is an important one - you really have to understand the history of the American Shetland Pony to understand why they are so refined. It is not just a matter of being crossed with other breeds. I can trace my stallion's lineage all the way back to ponies in the UK over and over and over again, and so far have not found a single hackney or welsh in his background. I'm not saying there is not one somewhere, but genetically he is at least 99% Shetland and deserves to be called a Shetland. And while he is not ultra-refined or extreme (he is foundation type), he is still very different from most of the UK ponies that I see.

    http://www.alphahorses.com/images/horses/B...S_0107_600w.jpg

    The black pony in the link that Ouburgia posted is gorgeous, though not what I am personally breeding for. But I've seen many photos of other UK shetlands where the pony is very overweight, and I often wonder if you take that 100+ lbs of excess weight off some them and body clip them, just how much different they would really look from our own foundation ponies.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2008
  6. Aug 31, 2008 #26

    crponies

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    Wow, I am learning a lot here. I obviously have not researched much really. I had no idea that the Americans imported such refined Shetland ponies to begin with. That's very neat to know!
     
  7. Sep 1, 2008 #27

    Boinky

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    i have nothing against Island shetlands but they just aren't "my thing". I've looked at many web pages of them in the last couple months and quite frankly they tend to have not so great conformation. some of the pages claimed to have champions blah blah but those "champions' were not horses i'd personally breed nor would they have won a class if i was judging unless they truly were the "best" example (which wasn't saying much if a few of them truly are excellent examples of the breed). Maybe their conformations is made form to function i dont' know but some of them were a bit scarey looking. Quite frankly i see a very strong resemblance of them to our "miniatures" that have been bred so long for size not conformation. they have very similar (what i consider) conformational flaws.

    I also have to wonder how many would look a lot better with their weight controlled as many DO appear to be quite overweight. hard telling i guess. To each their own.. nothing against them. I personally like a more refined horse/pony of almost every breed. Rarely do i see a stocky heavy horse that makes my heart go pitter patter. I don't think it's fair for anyone to say that you shouldn't "change a breed". well it's happend in every breed. even many draft breeds have a "lighter" version of their breed more geared for riding and sport/carraige driving than drafting. Times have changed as well and there are more sporty things out there that require a more nimble/fast ect horse. Breeds have to stay competitive to exist in todays society. it all really depends on what the owner or breeder wants. if the breed already has some lighter examples and that's what people choose to breed from but the genetics are the same...then it's the SAME breed only someone focused more on a different "type'. If no one ever did that there would be no variety in the world...what a dull place!
     
  8. Sep 1, 2008 #28

    Calekio

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    Well technically most of my ponies are british shetland ponies... or least.. that what it says on there papers! lol But i can show them as non clipped miniatures or mini shetties...

    one of the shetties who use to be at our yard.... a real working pony... but more of a happy hacker..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Island bred 'aged' stallion (not in great shape.. not had him long here...)

    [​IMG]

    Yearling filly

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Sep 1, 2008 #29
    I love the British Shetlands ! To me they are the real deal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2008
  10. Sep 4, 2008 #30
    Ive had both.. and both are TOTALLY differnet. My two that I have now parents are from the Shetland Islands. They are short and robust. They are too young to seriously start training , and the AMHA from the US, I dont have yet, hopefully I will by this month, she is also young , it will be interesting to see the differences. will keep you posted.
     
  11. Sep 4, 2008 #31
    Its my understanding..AMHA AMHR horses are out of the Fallabella Argentine horses that lived in a canyon and never really got out of the canyon, hence the refined body for the heat , and in the dessert there was little food...right ? Now the Shetland Ponys for the Shetland Islands are robust ...ever been there ??very very cold windy and rainey. If i lived there I would probably grow hair like a Yak, and be short so I could find a little shelter behind logs. where there is rain there is grass....they always eat, they needed to to keep warm. To this day mine eat like I have had them on Jenny Craig for a month. Their legs are thick , cannon bones 2 to 4 times thicker than the AMHA-R ^s cannon bones. People from hot climates are usually thinner right? they eat less, they eat more fruit and vegies...wouldnt this sort of be the same for the horses? Look at the Arabians vs the Islandic Horses. Thats kind of the same comparison as the SP and AM (shetland pony , vs american mini horse)
     
  12. Sep 4, 2008 #32

    Shortpig

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    Back in the 70's there was a lady who lived on a small island just south of Tillamook, Oregon. She had a herd of shetland ponies and they were of the British type. She also had a daughter who was born with Downs Syndrome.

    When the little girl would go out with the ponies they would surround her to protect her. These ponies adored this little girl but were very stand offish to anyone else who came near. It was actually in Tierra Del Mar Oregon. It was really neat to go over the little bridge just park and watch her herd intereact. None were for sale ever and I'm not sure what happened to the herd or the family. Basically they were a wild herd and had the run of the whole little Island. Maybe someday my daughter and I could take a drive down the coast and see if anyone is still there including the ponies.

    I just remember they were so very pretty.
     
  13. Sep 4, 2008 #33

    Shari

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    Marie,, if you ever find that herd again... let me know. [​IMG]
     
  14. Sep 4, 2008 #34

    Shortpig

    Shortpig

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    Ok Shari, The little Island is just south of Sand Lake heading to Ocean Side. Thinking how old I am now I can't imagine the family is still there with those horses. I'll see what I can find out though
     
  15. Sep 5, 2008 #35

    PrestigeMiniHorses

    PrestigeMiniHorses

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    Wow I am just amazed with all this. To me the original island shetlands remind me of the original minis from back in the day. Weird. I never saw one of these original so when I think of a shetland I see a american version. My main pony breed was a Hackney so I love the refined look...
     
  16. Sep 8, 2008 #36

    kaykay

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    Krissy I have to disagree with the canyon story. Yes its a romantic story but has no basis in reality.

    There is a whole group here in the US called the Shetland pony society of north america.

    sheltand society
     
  17. Sep 12, 2008 #37
    so then how do you explaine the differences in the Shetland horses and the american miniature. I got to tell you I have both , and both are about the same height, and the body structures are 100% different. Both papered, registered ,one with AMHA AMHR,from the US , and the others SPC from France , and sire from the UK. on the shetland the legs are twice as thick , short cannon bones, and shorter legs, also the chest is thick , rear end is twice the size of the AMHA, and about one year difference in age.all three under 34 inches, but the shetlands are 2 times thicker in the overall body. thicker fur , mane , tail etc. Can you explaine the difference between to two ? its been a mystery to me because I get so many different storys. What is the difference between the Fallabellas and the ASP, the ASP and the SP , MSP and the AMH

    american shetland pony

    american miniature horse

    american miniature horse oversized or registry

    Shetland pony UK

    mini shetland ponys UK

    Fallabella , and Fallabella blends

    every one of these horses has a different body type , the standard shetland pony is something you will never see in the US, it can look like a 11 hand Draft horse..I am not kidding , and adults can easily ride them over here. You can put 2 AMHA AMHR horses together side by side , and they are still thinner than 1 shetland pony miniature or standard. I kid you not.
     
  18. Sep 12, 2008 #38

    kaykay

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    Hi Krissy

    Did you look at the link I posted above?? You will see there more of the old style UK looking shetlands there.

    This is all really hard to explain but I will try to keep it short.

    All American Miniature horses were bred down from small Shetland ponies and some other breeds that were thrown in but mainly they came from small Shetlands. Keep in mind there are different divisions in the American Shetland Pony

    Foundation

    Classic

    Modern

    Modern Pleasure

    This I think is what is so hard for people new to AMerican Shetlands to understand. Each division has a different "type"

    Fallabellas are the ones that started the story of finding them wondering around a canyon. But it was simply a marketing ploy and it did work well.

    For example here are pictures of mine with their registey and type

    Feature our FOUNDATION pony herd sire. Heavier boned, stockier much more like the foundation that shetlands were bred from.

    [​IMG]

    Black our other herdsire CLASSIC american shetland pony and also registered miniature horse. Much finer boned then a foundation horse

    [​IMG]

    Patches MODERN PLEASURE division. As you can see shes much more extreme then the top two because she has a Hackney outcross in her pedigree

    [​IMG]

    Tease our filly is I think will be a CLASSIC pony but is also registered AMHR.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2008
  19. Sep 12, 2008 #39
    Kay kay I totally agree with you on the devisions , however here in Switzerland , and Italy , and France , those horses dont exist yet. They have not been imported yet from the states or from the UK. The ICAMH is in the Netherlands , and there is not one show in Switzerland that is an AMHA show because there are only about 5 people breeding them or that have purchased them, and their mares and stallions must come from the states, because they dont exist here. The horse I just purchased is from the US. All shows must be open because there are not enough AMHA AMHR ASP here to have a class. I was at the biggest show 3 weeks ago , and there were only about 3 registered AMHA horses there , all from the breeder showing , and one new ASP from that came from the states a few months back.the rest were the normal shetlands that we see here in Europe. So its totally different here. ICAMHA is only 2 years old here, and thats only in the Netherlands, it has not reached the other countries , except the UK. So that is where I am comming from, I am trying to expand the AMHA here by purchasing a registered horse here and actually showing it , and being active in the showing, because I want to see this club get bigger. People here have never seen one of these horses before , I didnt know anything ( and still dont ) about the Falabellas, until the breeder said she was going to start breeding only the Falabellas, she gave me the Canyon story , and I bought it hook line and sinker.

    Thanks for clearing it up for me , will do some reading up on it too. ps .did look at the site , those are not here yet , maybe in the UK , but they are way too pretty and fine , you wont see one here ...not yet at least.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  20. Sep 12, 2008 #40

    Lewella

    Lewella

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    There are breeders in Germany who have been breeding Classic American Shetlands for at least 15 years. They imported Foundation Shetlands from Dennis O'Keefe and Jean Morrissey primarily and most of the ponies they brought over at that time were Silver Dapples or carried the silver dilution. Here's the website for Karl-Heinz Stach who did quite a bit of importing of Classic Shetlands to Germany in the early to mid 1990's - http://www.classicamericanshetland.de/
     

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