Question for those of you with "Working" Farms

[kaykay]

thank you jodi

and yes i do all those things and will take back any puppy/dog i have bred for life and that is stated in my contract. And no i dont live off puppies or support the farm with them. That would require a lot of litters etc and I will never do that!

 

[Boinky]

Kay kay,

I did not mean to suggest that YOU were a bad breeder, infact i guess i didn't even relise you bred litters as the way you stated the post was that a friend made a living off it. I guess my point was i'd like to know HOW a truly good breeder makes much money. that would be of great intrest to me! SERIOUSLY! I mean like i said in my last post (and this is truly NO lie, if you break it down in a truly business sence) i'm quite a few thousand dollars in the hole. My dogs are my pets, they live in the house with me. I do have crates but the dogs are NOT "kenneled" per say. they may sleep in their crates at night or if i'm away. Bleive me when you have 6 dogs living in the house with you, it's a good idea to kennel them when your not around to make sure things are "ok" (between each dog or with your house..LOL). If any of my pups are not able to be kept with their new owners i take them back (had to with a couple so far). I had one that dug it's way out under the fence when it was 4 months old and got hit by a car, was truly knocking on deaths door and about 1K later she's healthy and hops around on three legs. I do what i have to do even if i never see a cent back...which i could never even get a fraction of what i put into that dog back.

I guess i'm just curious how someone would truly make money and not "mill" them... I could see if i pumped out tons of litters each year, which i still considering puppy milling even if you have really excellent stock.

I'm not in it for anything other than the pleasure of having the puppies and dogs around, but it WOULD be nice to finda way to truly make it pay...LOL I'd love to hear how!

 

[JWC sr.]

In reading over the posts I thought I might add a couple of thoughts I had in my warped mind. The trainers that work in the mini industry are some of the lowest paid in the equine industry and they really make a commitment that is a 24/7 type deal. Most of them are hard working committed people that really love these horses, there are a few exceptions, but most are honorable people.

Personally we never begrudged the bills they sent in for the job they did. Most of our experiences were very positive when we worked with them in years past. A lot of people think they are given preferential treatment in the ring and sometimes they are.

In my opinion though a lot of that is just sour grapes, these folks (trainers) pick through the herds of many different farms to come up with the show string that present each year and the quality of the horses they end up with is usually better top to bottom than what one individual farm produces on a yearly basis.

I know of two trainers here in Texas that spent two and three weeks respectively of their own personal time and money prospecting at different farms all over the nation to settle on the string they will have for this coming year. And so then the judges knowing this will give them a second look before going to an individual farms horses. It sucks sometimes for individual farms and small breeders that breed and show the horses they produce such as we do at times, but I do understand it. And as long as a judge judges the horses and not the person on the end of the lead which we have seen happen at times, I can live with them giving the trainers the second going over.

Making a living in this industry is not something we should as owners look down on, but rather encourage in my opinion as it makes our industry stronger.

Secondly I hope everyone can sell the horses they produce each year for enough money to offset the cost of raising these little guys. It is not a cheap deal to do it right and if a person commits the time and money to do it right they should be rewarded no matter the size of the operation. If that happens as a minimum then our industry is also stronger, unfortunately we still have a ways to go to achieve that goal. It will take more marketing, quality control and education within the industry for years to come, but things are on the upswing on all those fronts with all the time and effort a lot of folks are spending.

Again just because a person may breed mini's or puppies or any other type animal and then sell it for a profit does not make them a bad person and in fact makes them a whole lot smarter than I was when for years I did not fiqure out how to do it, till I really got committed to the breed. I think I just called myself stupid didn't I. LOL

My thoughts on the subject anyway,

 

[Belinda]

In reading over the posts I thought I might add a couple of thoughts I had in my warped mind. The trainers that work in the mini industry are some of the lowest paid in the equine industry and they really make a commitment that is a 24/7 type deal. Most of them are hard working committed people that really love these horses, there are a few exceptions, but most are honorable people.

Personally we never begrudged the bills they sent in for the job they did. Most of our experiences were very positive when we worked with them in years past. A lot of people think they are given preferential treatment in the ring and sometimes they are.

In my opinion though a lot of that is just sour grapes, these folks (trainers) pick through the herds of many different farms to come up with the show string that present each year and the quality of the horses they end up with is usually better top to bottom than what one individual farm produces on a yearly basis.

IMaking a living in this industry is not something we should as owners look down on, but rather encourage in my opinion as it makes our industry stronger.

Again just because a person may breed mini's or puppies or any other type animal and then sell it for a profit does not make them a bad person and in fact makes them a whole lot smarter than I was when for years I did not fiqure out how to do it, till I really got committed to the breed. I think I just called myself stupid didn't I. LOL

My thoughts on the subject anyway,

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Could not have said it better !!!

 

[Boinky]

lol i don't look down on anyone for making money, but i do look down on those that do it improperly and not careing for those animals correctly. I do tend to not agree with breeding TONS of litters of dogs, but i guess if that's what one chooses to do and can do it with care and respect for the animals then so be it and not cutting needed corners (though many people that breed dogs on a really large scale DON'T). It also hurts our breeds when there is over breeding because it contributes to a highly overpopulated animal society and runs the price of the truly nice animals down. I WOULD like to know how people do it though! lol i'd love to make money doing something I love. I agree.. mini trainers get SQUAT compaired to big horse trainers!

 

[sfmini]

I think what John is referring to is the bitterness that exists when the trainers win consistently. Those who compete against those winning trainers blame politics instead of the trainer having the better quality horse that is perfectly groomed and conditioned. It is their job to do this, if they weren't winning, they wouldn't be trainers for long. I hear the same gripes in dogs, how it is so political. More like kennel blindness methinks. Now, there are times when politics come into play but not nearly as often as people think. I do have to say that sometimes they don't have the best horse, but are able to conceal the flaws to a certain extent with grooming, conditioning, training, and presentation.

on with the flame suit. :no:

 

[HGFarm]

I am working on my 8th million. The first 7 failed.

 

[littlearab]

Ok I took this question another way. LOL

I took it as anyone who has a working ag related farm and mini?? I might be wrong. Maybe I read it that way becuase We have a dairy farm and cattle ranch and minis. :bgrin My husbund runs a supper club in town 6 days a week, I'm the chef milker and feeder here. Come cavling season I'm the midwife too.

We have 250 head beef cattle and 50 milk cows. And 4 sheep. LOL

Also 4 arabs and 13 miniatures, the minis are just a very small part of the "working " farm.

How it works is they keep me sane :aktion033: If one would call me sane..

:

Up at 6 every morning milking cows, feeding bottle and pail calves.Feeding horses and watering horses in pens with no waters. In the house to eat at 8.

Feeding cattle hay and corn from 9 to 12.

come in eat again.

Out to fill any hay rakes in need at 1 .

In at 2 or 3 to clean house,e-mail,book work see kids off the bus and put supper in the oven.

Out to milk,feed calves and water horses agian at 5:30.

Back in at 7 eat supper, help with home work ect.

This is down time of year for the most part, no hay to make no feilds to seed , work or combine ect. Calving is a couple of months away so I do get to sleep.

My family is number one, but the horses come a very close 2nd.The cattle pay the bills, so they are right up thiere too. I guess I have to love them too. Do not ask me why..... like I said the horses keep me sane if you can call me that.

How the mini keep me sane is the horses are my joy. To go out and watch them, smell them(yes, is horses smell GOOD) and pet thier fuzzy faces are, I look forward to each day to working with them. The foals on the ground come spring make the long cold winter worth it all. I do not make any money on my minis. But the best things in life do have to do with money..

:

 

[kaykay]

I agree for the most part with john. but i want to know when MAKING MONEY BECAME A DIRTY WORD??

My friends and i joke that you better never say you sold a horse for a profit or else you get looked down on. There is one person (im not going to name unless they want to post) that regulary posts here and gladly admits that they make a profit.

Now it doesnt happen overnight and it doesnt happen without a lot of hard work. But it does happen. I know many farms that do make a living off miniature horses and they are proud of it. I was lucky when I first got into miniatures that I had long talks with Lowell Boone. He gave us some very good advice. And yes he readily admitted that he made a living from miniature horses.

And I do know a couple trainers that also admit that they make money from horses. Do they work hard for their money?? ABSOLUTELY!!! They deserve every cent they make.

Why is making money such a bad thing?? Isnt that the american dream?

Making a profit does not equal a bad breeder

 

[kenna]

We rescue dobermans and I am very into the dog show scene (though we have 4 rescues and an 11 year old dog from a breeder so no room for a show dog). From what I've learned, and from talking to TRULY responsible breeders, you're LUCKY to come out even with a litter of puppies. If you're making a decent profit, I don't think you're doing enough with your dogs, be it testing, training, showing, working, feeding excellent quality food, etc.

And that's not directed towards anyone here

 

[Frankie]

:

: Heck,,,,,,,I'm just wanting to stay home,,,,,,and wanted ways to have some kind of an income and use the "farm" to do so,,,,,,including the miniatures,,, or not. Any way to do it,,,,,,that can work.

 

[Warpony]

And I do know a couple trainers that also admit that they make money from horses. Do they work hard for their money?? ABSOLUTELY!!! They deserve every cent they make.

I absolutely agree. If people can do it right and make money then by all means they not only deserve it but they deserve to be proud of it! It is extremely difficult to breed or train any sort of animal properly and turn enough profit to make a living at it. Not only should they be proud, but they should tell me how to do it, hehehe.

There is no shame in making a living off of animals... my problem is the people who are clearly contributing to the pet over population problem by breeding anything with working genitals just because they can turn a buck (or who let their pets breed because they don't want to have to pay to get them spayed or neutered).

One summer of work at an animal shelter tossing the bodies of euthanized dogs and cats into the incinerator at the end of the day was enough to make me turn a really harsh eye on anyone who produces gads of genetically questionable offspring. I know there are some people who work in rescue who view all breeders as evil, but i think improving and preserving the breeds is as important as not over producing or breeding unhealthy animals. I think so many people have been ripping on breeders in general that the good breeders get a bad rap that they don't deserve.

 

[Jaxjag2000]

And I do know a couple trainers that also admit that they make money from horses. Do they work hard for their money?? ABSOLUTELY!!! They deserve every cent they make.

I absolutely agree. If people can do it right and make money then by all means they not only deserve it but they deserve to be proud of it! It is extremely difficult to breed or train any sort of animal properly and turn enough profit to make a living at it. Not only should they be proud, but they should tell me how to do it, hehehe.

There is no shame in making a living off of animals... my problem is the people who are clearly contributing to the pet over population problem by breeding anything with working genitals just because they can turn a buck (or who let their pets breed because they don't want to have to pay to get them spayed or neutered).

Very well put! I agree! Trainers have to work very, very hard and I admire that. :aktion033:

It's very sad to see animals that have been overbreed and not cared for properly. :-(

 

[Tammie-C_Spots]

I've been lucky enough that most years the horses pay for thier upkeep in the sale of a few foals or adults a year. We've constantly upgraded and many people commented on the quality of my little select group. I just sold a proven bred mare in foal, a weanling filly and a stallion so now i'll have one breeding stallion and three breeding mares with two foals in the spring. I do work as a freelance trainer (mostly driving) to help support them. I consider them a hobby

Tammie