Question for show drivers

[Blackwater Farm]

I was just watching a video on YouTube that was a compilation type thing of some roadster/pleasure driving in what I would guess is a warm up deal at a show. The horses were beautiful, the video was beautiful! My question is about the breastcollars on the horses. Now mind you I dont do alot of show driving unless its just local fun stuff, and I always love to learn new things, so this is pure curiosity as to why I ask this. In the video I was watching the breast collars of the horses and they didn't look like there was any weight in it at all. They were just kinda floppin up and down. This wasnt just on one of the horses but several. Like they werent pulling from the breast collar. What would be the reasoning for this? I dont think I can list the video on here as it doesnt belong to me but I guess maybe you could PM me and I could send you the link. Thanks all!

 

[Sandee]

Some people, for reasons I can't fathom, wrap the traces around the shaft which keeps them from using the breast strap properly. Maybe their traces aren't the right length and they can't adjust them? That might have been the reason for what you saw. Can't really tell without seeing it.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Many show horses are really pushed into the bridle thus the lines are very tight. When the driver pulls on the lines the cart goes forward and thus the tugs are loose. The wrapping of the tugs is to decrease the visual effect of this.

Dr. Taylor

 

[disneyhorse]

Not all show horses are hitched like this. When I asked a "big name trainer" why the breast collar wasn't engaged, they said it was because the weight on the shoulders could impede the front end action and given the level packed footing the horses can both pull and stop the cart with the saddle.

In turn, they also usually wrap the traces around the shafts to decrease the visual "flapping around" of the collar and traces.

 

[Blackwater Farm]

Funny you should say that disneyhorse, because that was my first thought. That it had something to do with trying not to inhibit the action of the front end. I have also see the wrapping of the traces around the shafts. What kind of effect will pulling from the saddle have on a horse?

 

[hobbyhorse23]

The most common reason is the one DisneyHorse quoted, that of not impeding the action of the shoulders. To my way of thinking that is the job of the singletree, but hey! To be fair, Hackneys and the like have such extravagant shoulder action that it would probably jerk the carriage or overtax the singletree to have them pulling from a breastcollar at full road trot. They were traditionally harnessed using neck collars in England, which neatly avoided the issue AND was ergonomic for the horse.

Sometimes the traces are wrapped because they are simply too long but often it's on purpose to minimize the flopping that results from pulling from the saddle.

Pulling from the saddle has some pretty negative consequences for the horse's comfort IMO as you have to cinch the saddle down really tightly and wrap the wrap straps as tight as they'll go to keep the shafts from slipping forward or back. In a full fine harness turnout the horse will hollow their back to allow greater movement of the front end (yes, often leaving the hind end trailing behind disconnectedly) and the horse will be checked up to maintain the overall way of moving. If a horse is built for this, it can be fine. What drives me nuts is seeing a horse who is in no way built for high action or a high headset driven that way, clearly uncomfortable but having to pull his own weight from a narrow band around his middle anyway.

I can't help but feel that asking a miniature horse to drive in that style is not the same as asking a much bigger/stronger Saddlebred or Hackney to do so as the load is proportionally much lighter for them, and I don't personally find it pleasing to the eye unless the horse is a true fine harness type in miniature and thus seems comfortable carrying himself that way. I prefer to see a horse brought along slowly and taught to use his hind end to send power up through the topline into the bridle and he can't do that if he's locking his back down to avoid a pinching saddle.

Sorry for the disconnected thoughts, I'm tired tonight.

Leia

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I guess there might be a few horses that pull off of the saddle, but I disagree that it is common. Just some points to consider.

1) If you were pulling from the saddle then the shaft stops are on the wrong side of the fills. Yes, wrapped tie-downs would create some friction with which to pull off of, but as shafts taper, they quickly lose their grip.

2) If you were pulling from the saddle then the fills would be behind the back pad while in motion. I spent some time yesterday looking at mostly random classes (I did pick a draft class on purpose) from AMHR Nationals and the Hackney World Championships, in nearly every picture (except for the draft classes) the shaft fills are in front of the back pad.

Dr. Taylor

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

That's what I heard, that they want to leave the shoulders free for good movement.

What a trainer friend of ours taught us, when you harness your horse, the tugs go in in front of the shaft stops, as normal. He then took the tie-down strap (we use French tugs) and put that BEHIND the pin on the shaft stop and that holds your whole unit in place. I imagine it would also work with wrap straps, too!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

The idea that these horses are pulling the entire cart from their MOUTHS is even more horrifying than from the saddle.

Those are the only two points a show harness with loose traces is connected to the cart though, so it's one or the other!

Leia