Question about AI registry requirements

[StarRidgeAcres]

Do I understand this correctly?

For both AMHA and AMHR, artificial insemination is an acceptable manner of breeding.

Each registry requires a $100 AI fee per stallion and that covers any/all AIs during that calendar year.

Each registry requires both the stallion and the mare to be blood typed/DNAd prior to registering the foal.

Each registry requires the resulting foals to be blood typed/DNAd prior to registering the foal.

And as a side discussion, both registries accept frozen semen as an acceptable manner of breeding. (I am NOT trying to imply it's a good idea for either AI or frozen, just trying to understand.)

If anyone who has experience with AI (either with the stallion or on the mare end) and you don't mind answering some questions, please PM me. Thank you.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

While I do not know any of the miniature breed association regulations, my specialty is assisted stallion reproduction, and I would be happy to help answer you (or anyone else) any questions related to AI.

If its a very paticular question feel free to PM, if its a general question I'm happy to answer here for everyone to read.

 

[midnight star stables]

Bump

 

[uwharrie]

I am also curious to know if AMHA and AMHR accept AI/Frozen foals for registration. With frozen it opens up a whole new field of potential breedings. While it would not be easy to ship a mare clear across the country ( or possibly the world) It is easy to ship frozen semen.

Many horse registries now accept frozen, and with the dairy goats and cattle it is almost the Norm. ( with most breeders maintaining thier own tanks on the farm and doing AIs themselves)

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I am also curious to know if AMHA and AMHR accept AI/Frozen foals for registration. With frozen it opens up a whole new field of potential breedings. While it would not be easy to ship a mare clear across the country ( or possibly the world) It is easy to ship frozen semen.Many horse registries now accept frozen, and with the dairy goats and cattle it is almost the Norm. ( with most breeders maintaining thier own tanks on the farm and doing AIs themselves)

From reading the rule books of both registries it seems to me that both allow cooled and frozen. But anyone should read it for themselves or call the registries to be sure.

I agree that it opens up lots of opportunities for breeding, but I have heard, many times, that mini stallion semen just does not "extend" (I think that's the word) like other breeds and therefore cooled or frozen just isn't very successful with minis.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I know that it has been done, but I don't know any quality numbers. There are so many high quality extenders avalible now that I hesitate to say that the whole breed can't be shipped There are so many ways around problems now that I think that most miniature stallions should be able to be handled just like any other breed, assuming that the stallion manager and mare manager treat them the same as they would a big horse, without cutting corners.

I guess we'll just have to try!

When I get a lab again I'll have to run my stud though and see what his numbers are.

 

[Boinky]

Nathan If you want to experiment and would like some other semen donations let me know.i have PLENTY of studs (6 to be exact) to try it on. not sure if more would be better, but i'd think that it would give you a better overall "breed" view the more specimens you are able to study.

 

[mizbeth]

I was not aware that we were allowed to ship frozen semen. I have lost track of this proceedure since it was initiated as the results were not good and at that time I am almost certain frozen semen was not allowed.

I get a lot of requests to ship semen but since I have based my answer on perhaps old information I would like to hear if anyone has shipped frozen, how many foals are registered that are AI foals now either with cooled or frozen semen?

Thank you, looking forward to hearing the comments on this.

Beth

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I'm going to try and post directly (excerpts) from the AMHA rule book.

Breeding Requirements, pg 51.

[SIZE=8pt][/SIZE]

192 ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION & EMBRYO TRANSFER (I've only included the AI section)
[SIZE=8pt][/SIZE]

(Complete section amended 02-07, effective 01-08)
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192A On Premise Artificial Insemination

A foal shall be considered eligible for registration which is conceived by on premises artificial insemination
involving the use of semen that is used immediately following collection (time lapse not to exceed 24
hours) and at the place or premises of collection.
192B Cooled or Frozen Transported Semen
1. Cooled or frozen transported semen may be used for artificial insemination (AI) and resulting foals will
be eligible for registration if the following conditions are met:
a. A completed stallion breeding report must be filed with the AMHA office listing all mares
artificially inseminated. All mares must be included on the report whether or not a mare
conceives.
b. A completed breeder's certificate must be issued to the owner of the artificial inseminated
mare.
c. Resulting foal must be DNA tested and pedigree proven.
d. All other requirements of the AMHA, in addition to these rules, must be followed in
order for the resultant foal to be eligible for registration.
2. Before semen may be transported from the location of collection, the stallion owner, lessee of record or
authorized agent (all hereafter shall be referred to as stallion owner) at the time of permit application, shall
[SIZE=8pt][/SIZE]

apply and pay the yearly fee for the transported semen permit (see fee schedule). This permit is effective for



the calendar year (January 1 – December 31) during which the semen must be collected and used. The



permit fee is non-refundable or transferable. In addition to hand or pasture breeding mares, a stallion will



be limited to twenty (20) mares exposed to transported semen during any one calendar year.



a. This permit will:



(1)Be issued to the stallion owner upon receipt of the above fee and the



blood/DNA genetic testing of the stallion on record with AMHA



(2)Identify the stallion from which the collection is to be taken.



3. Once a permit has been issued, a collection insemination report must be completed and sent with each



inseminate by the stallion owner. This report requires a portion to be completed and mailed to the AMHA by



the mare owner. This report will certify the identity of the collected stallion and date as well as the inseminated



mare and date. The collection and insemination shall be overseen/conducted by licensed veterinarians/



technicians as attested by their signatures certifying that the appropriate stallion and mare have been



correctly identified from the horses' original registration certificates.



4. The mare owner shall contact the stallion owner to arrange for the transportation of semen. Any fees



charged by the stallion owner in connection with providing the transported semen are between the mare



owner and the stallion owner.



5. If using cooled semen the mare must be inseminated within seventy-two (72) hours of collection.



6. Should the mare for which a collection insemination certificate was issued not conceive within the calendar



year, the stallion owner must apply for a new permit and fee paid before insemination with transported



semen is attempted in the subsequent calendar year.



7.Prior to the completion of the registration application for a foal conceived through the use of transported



semen, the applicant shall have the blood/DNA genetic testing of the dam and the foal on record with



AMHA, and the foal's parentage must be verified.



8. There will be a $500 penalty fee per incident for transporting semen without a permit.



9 The AMHA has the right to deny registration of any foal conceived by transported semen if all AMHA



rules and regulations are not adhered to.



10. If a stallion changes ownership, use of the frozen [SIZE=8pt]semen is limited to the current, recorded owner. The[/SIZE]



new owner must re-apply for a new transported semen permit.



11. Ownership of semen already frozen by the previous owner/lessee must be resolved between the seller



and buyer.



12. If a stallion is leased, the use of the frozen semen by the lessee is restricted to the time period (beginning



to ending date) of the lease only.



13.Gelding of the stallion will preclude the use of the frozen semen as of the date of gelding.



14. Disputes arising between current or previous owners of stallions and/or mare and stallion owners will



not involve AMHA. The Association may not be used to protect, defend or enforce the use of the semen.



Any dispute must be resolved by the individuals.
 




From reading this, I would conclude that AMHA allows both cooled and frozed semen.

 

[uwharrie]

It sounds like the AMHA is a bit behind the times when it comes to using frozen semen.

Only allowing it to be used the year collected ( unless you pay more fees), not allowing use after gelding ( and one would assume death)

no wonder folks are not doing much with frozen right now.

One of the great things about frozen semen is it will far outlast the "donor"

I know of several litters sired by dogs long since passed. And when I had dairy goats I often saw semen for sale from long dead bucks. With both dogs and goats you do not have to own the "donor" to own the semen.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

It sounds like the AMHA is a bit behind the times when it comes to using frozen semen.Only allowing it to be used the year collected ( unless you pay more fees), not allowing use after gelding ( and one would assume death)

no wonder folks are not doing much with frozen right now.

One of the great things about frozen semen is it will far outlast the "donor"

I know of several litters sired by dogs long since passed. And when I had dairy goats I often saw semen for sale from long dead bucks. With both dogs and goats you do not have to own the "donor" to own the semen.

I don't know how true this is, but I've heard that frozen mini semen just doesn't hold up. I've heard that if anything, it needs to be cooled semen and used as soon as possible. I'm under the impression it's nothing like in dogs or other animals.

 

[midnight star stables]

I read the rules for AMHA, but what about AMHR and ASPC?

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Here's what I found in the AMHR rule book. Looks like they allow AI of either cooled or frozen semen also. BTW, embryo transfer seems to be ok as well.

From the AMHR rule book:

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N. [SIZE=10pt]Artificial Insemination[/SIZE]
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1. Permits for the use of A.I. will and must be issued for stallions participating in the program prior to
any breeding via A.I. taking place.
2. Stallion permits are a one time fee of $100.00 to the stallion owner. *DNA typing of the stallion
must accompany the application for a permit to use A.I. When ownership of a stallion changes a
$10.00 permit transfer and recording fee is charged.
3. All mares and foals must be *DNA typed prior to the application for registration being processed by
the American Shetland Pony Club, Inc., American Miniature Horse Registry, or American Show Pony
Registry. Registration of the foal will only be made if the foal’s DNA type is in harmony with that of
the sire and dam. In addition, all standard registration procedures will be followed. The A.I.
Foal Addendum form or insemination report must accompany the foal’s registration application.
4. A Cooled/Frozen Semen Transportation, Collection, and Insemination report shall be filed
with the registry within 10 days for each mare inseminated. Reports are a multiple NCR form
available at no charge from the registry office.
5. Stallion owners must file the annual standard Stallion Service Report with the registry office and
designate on the report which mares were bred via A.I.
6. Stallion and mare owners must be a member of the ASPC/AMHR/ASPR in order to participate.
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7. Permits and the rules published by the registry must have a liability clause stating that all
agreements, guarantees, and representations are strictly between the stallion owner and the mare
owner. The ASPC/AMHR/ASPR does not endorse nor guarantee the use or participation in any
particular A.I. program.
8. The approval of Artificial Insemination will allow the use of A.I. on premises or off the farm.
9. If A.I. and natural service are used within 42 days of each other, the resulting foal will be considered
an A.I. foal unless otherwise by DNA testing.
[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

O. [SIZE=10pt]Frozen Semen[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

The use of frozen semen will be allowed under the following rules:
1. All requirements for A.I. permits must be completed before an annual permit for frozen
semen use can be issued at a one time fee of $25.00. When ownership of frozen semen changes,
a $5.00 permit transfer fee is charged per ampule or straw.
2. Owners of frozen semen must be members of ASPC/AMHR/ASPR prior to A.I. use.
3. All other rules and regulations pertaining to A.I. are applicable to the use of frozen semen.

 

[Riverdance]

From what I have heard and found, for some reason Miniature horses semen does not ship very well. If you have your stallion tested, they will have to put the freshly collected semen in an extender and hold it for 24 and 48 hours to see how long the sperm lives. For most Minis, it is no more than 24 hours. Not enough time for shipping.

Also, it is very expensive to do. When I was breeding Morgans, I had semen shipped from all over the country. At that time, over 5 years ago, it cost $250 to have a little vile of semen shipped, pluse over $500 in vet bills to check the mare to make sure she was ready to ovulate (something not so easy to do in Minis, espcecially tiny ones). (I am sure it is a lot more expensive now) Once the vet gave the go ahead, I would call the stallion owner, they would get a vet out there and have him collect semen and ship it that day for me to get sometime the next day, usually before noon. Now, we are already 24 hours into the semens life. Then you have to have your vet come out and insert it and give the mare a shot to make her ovulate. If the timing was just right, you would have a pregnant mare (and in my case, always a filly).

Usually it would take two or three tries on a big horse to get them pregnant. A total of $1,400 to $1,650 just to get the mare pregnant, not incuding the stud fee. Rather spendy on an iffy thing for Mini's.

Frozen semen for Mini's would be even more iffy as they have not perfected that yet for the big horse, let alone one whos viability is even shorter, like the Mini.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

From what I have heard and found, for some reason Miniature horses semen does not ship very well. If you have your stallion tested, they will have to put the freshly collected semen in an extender and hold it for 24 and 48 hours to see how long the sperm lives. For most Minis, it is no more than 24 hours. Not enough time for shipping.

I agree we've all heard these stories and generally there's a reason stories like that get around...because they have some truth to them.

To date, Corona is the only stallion whose semen I've had tested for everything - inlcuding its "shelf" life. I don't have the report in front of me now, but I remember the vet telling me Corona would ship just fine. His little guys were plenty alive and healthy after 24 hours. I need to find that report to remember what all they check for and how long they did the shelf test for. So, not all minis have this "problem."

 

[kaykay]

I keep posting this every time it comes up. My neighbors do AI for a very well known mini farm and have done it for years. (they collect semen for all different breeds at their farm and have a state of the art facility) They say it is very effective and the reason people say it isnt is because they are resistant to change and things they dont have knowledge of. We almost did it for someone in Canada but they decided not to. They have offerred to collect some from Feature if I ever have the need.

They are really surprised how small equine owners do not take advantage of it.

 

[uwharrie]

Not all dog breeds are easy to get litters from frozen. In my breed (Italian Greyhounds) the first litter from frozen was just born this year. The technology is always changing and I am sure with work foals can be conceived from frozen by minis. However if the registries themselves limit

what can be registered from frozen semen then they are only holding up progress. Many folks might be willing to collect stallions and try for future breedings, but if the offspring is not registerable there would be no point.

It sounds like the AMHA is a bit behind the times when it comes to using frozen semen.Only allowing it to be used the year collected ( unless you pay more fees), not allowing use after gelding ( and one would assume death)

no wonder folks are not doing much with frozen right now.

One of the great things about frozen semen is it will far outlast the "donor"

I know of several litters sired by dogs long since passed. And when I had dairy goats I often saw semen for sale from long dead bucks. With both dogs and goats you do not have to own the "donor" to own the semen.

I don't know how true this is, but I've heard that frozen mini semen just doesn't hold up. I've heard that if anything, it needs to be cooled semen and used as soon as possible. I'm under the impression it's nothing like in dogs or other animals.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I know it's more expensive, but I'm thinking about trying it in the future. I can't bear to send any of my mares away, I would miss them too much and worry about the care they were getting, pathetic, I know! But one of my girls was passed around a lot, and you could see it in her eyes when she knew she was here to stay. My vets can ultrasound, etc, so I think they would be willing to help me try.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I keep posting this every time it comes up. My neighbors do AI for a very well known mini farm and have done it for years. (they collect semen for all different breeds at their farm and have a state of the art facility) They say it is very effective and the reason people say it isnt is because they are resistant to change and things they dont have knowledge of. We almost did it for someone in Canada but they decided not to. They have offerred to collect some from Feature if I ever have the need.

They are really surprised how small equine owners do not take advantage of it.

Kay,

I'm starting to come over to the other side!

I think your neighbors may be right and a LOT of what I'm running into with checking around is that people just haven't tried it therefore it must not work.

 

[Riverdance]

I agree we've all heard these stories and generally there's a reason stories like that get around...because they have some truth to them.

I know two well known farms that had their stallions checked and not one of the stallions semen was any good after 24 hours.

I never tested mine, but then again, I do not stand my stallions to outside mares at this time.

They say it is very effective and the reason people say it isnt is because they are resistant to change and things they dont have knowledge of

Not everyone who is into Mini's "don't have the knowledge". Some Mini people came from breeding successfully other breeds and have used only shipped semen to breed their mares.

I bred Morgans for 10 years and always used shipped semen, I bred several mares each year, so I guess I know a little of what is involved. It is VERY expensive (was even then, 5+ years ago)

The vet will have to make several trips out to the farm to check to see how the mare is getting alone and where she is in her cycle, (a few ultrasounds there), then once she looks like she is ready to release an egg, the vet pops her with a shot hoping she will ovulate after 24 hours. The mare owner has to call the stallion owner and have the semen delivered overnight.( the cost over 5 years ago was $250 to have the semen shipped (every time semen is called for, no matter how many trys) plus $50 to ship the empty container back.) Then the vet has to come back and insert the semen into the mare. Usually there are two bags shipped. One is used the first day, the second used the second day. EAch day the vet checks to see if the mare has ovulated. Then 18 or more days later, the vet has to come out again to ultrasound the mare to see if she took, if not, the vet will pop the mare with a shot to make her recycle and you have to start all over again. Now, where I live it costs $55 for a barn call, plus $60 for an ultrasound, so $115 every time the vet comes out to check the mare. That does not include the shots or inserting the semen. I am talking about $1000 or more per try.

Often it takes more then one try, many times at least 3 tries before the mare is confirmed in foal ( I used a nationaly well known vet who specialty was breeding, AI and embryo transfers and most of the time it still took more than one try). In many parts of the country, vets are just not experienced enough. Also Minis are more predisosed to having silent heats, or not ovulating correctly while having a foal by their side.

On the stallion owners side, one also has to have a vet that is ready to come out at a moments notice to collect the stallion ( one needs a mare that is in heat at that moment, or the stallion trained to mount a dummy) and get the semen prepared and ready for shipping and then get the semen to the overnight service by a certain time. (also, the stud owner will need to have several specialized shipping containers for keeping the semen properly cooled (also very expensive). Then they have to depend on the mare owner shipping the container back to them the very next day so that they have it for future calls.

During breeding and foaling season vets are very busy and it is not always easy to get a vet to come out to ones farm on a moments notice to collect the stallion. Most farms that offer shipped semen are able to collect and prepare and ship the semen themselves. Can you imagin how upset a mare owner would be if the semen did not get to its destination on time? With the $1000's the mare owner has already invested just getting the mare ready to accept the semen?

Again, it will cost aproximently $1,000 per try, not including the actual stud fee.

I for one, being a stallion owner, would not want the responsibility of shipping semen unless I had a stallion who was very much in demand.(otherwise finacially it would not be worth it) Then, how often would one be able to have the stallion collected and semen shipped and have viable semen at the other end. Many stallion's semen may start out being very good, but the mobility will dwindle as the stallion is over used. What happens when you have several farms calling you the same day asking for shipped semen?

These are all things a farm need to think about before they decide to stand their stallion for AI breedings.

In the big horse world many top stallion owners have their stallions standing at stallion stations where the station is well prepared to do that kind of thing and usually has a vet working there. That too is a very big cost for the stallion owner. The average small farm with 1 or 2 stallions just can not make it finacially worth their while to ship semen. Plus, then they also do not have the stallion on their farm breeding their mares.

For every mare that is booked to that stallion, he needs to be in prime breeding shape (thus not breeding owners mares). If a stallion has bred an owners mare naturally in the AM and then the stallion owner gets a call for shipped semen, the chances are the semen will not be as viable being collected and shipped that day.

Many, many things to be considered by both the stallion owner as well as the mare owner.