Quest and Quest Plus for minis.....

[MeadowRidge Farm]

This is going off the dewormer post below. I will be attending another seminiar (clinic) on Feb.11, one of the topics will be worming. I feel something has got to be done about the labeling, or having reps from Fort Dodge come across in there clinics while speaking, that Quest is perfectly safe for ALL horses including minis. I have just attended a clinic and spoke to the rep in detail about this..only to be told its perfectly safe, and its a dosage problem, putting the blame completely on the owners..when I problem does arise. So anyone who would like me to "be there voice" please put your comments and concerns on here and I will print this out and let the reps know we want to be HEARD about this. My concern is ..what about the new minis owners attending these clinics, they will come away with the knowledge that Quest is perfectly safe, not knowing any different. Even if you just want to say ..you would NEVER use it for your horses would be fine, the more I can get to comment on it, the more power I will have to speak up about it.. even if you would like to email me privately. ([email protected]) I would especially like to hear from people who have had minis with severe problems after using Quest. Another thing that he mentioned at the clinic last night--was that all the negative comments you hear about Quest was just internet rumors, and that was mentioned right on the slide show he presented to us. Corinne

 

[Reble]

Thanks This is what we need to do. !!!!!!!!!!!

BLESS OUR LITTLE FRIENDS

:aktion033:

: :aktion033:

WE need to hit the Reps and Company about our Concerns.

This would be a great opportunity.

Wish I could be there!!!!!!!!

So you are our VOICE

Maybe they need to lower the amount of Moxidectin in their paste for MINIS

You can mention Dr. Stephan Jacobs from their Quest Company,

is dealing with a case Just as you speak.

Of My MINIATURE GELDING DIEING ( Was not overdosed )

 

[susanne]

This is not exactly on-topic, but I'm bothered by this link on the Wyeth/Fort Dodge website, which reads to me like a veiled threat. While I have not used this product, I appreciate any and all warnings concerning the health of my animals, and resent the suggestion that people should not share their experiences.

http://www.questgel.com/response.htm

These paragraphs, taken from their web page, is especially troubling:

"...While the Internet can be a useful tool, the information presented must be considered carefully. It needs to be noted that all of the Internet allegations have been "anonymous" with the same e-mails being posted repeatedly over the past three years. We invite you to examine the statements made regarding QUEST® Gel so that you can decide the facts for yourself.

Fort Dodge Animal Health has recently begun to investigate various Internet postings in an effort to identify the source and motivation of these e-mails so that legitimate issues may be addressed and that unsubstantiated allegations will be vigorously pursued..."

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I tried last night to get through on their site to give an un anonymous opinion- there was NO way of doing so!!

So here is an un anonymous opinion.

Fort Dodge are you paying attention?

If you contact me through this Forum I will be more than happy to supply my FULL name and address.

I will NEVER use Quest to deworm a Mini as I consider it to be highly unsafe.

I would not recommend it for anyone to use on any horse.

The article here

http://www.equinenet.org/ernet/worms.html

is not anonymous either and is written by someone far more qualified than am I .

 

[Marty]

In my opinon Fort Dodge will go to great lengths for damage control. And they surely must! They have flunked more govenment inspections in that place than Carter has Liver Pills and the reports of this are readily available in a simple search. They need to get Quest off the market period.

http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/g4602d.pdf

 

[Shari]

Well... I have used Quest for a couple of years with no problems, until I found others here had problems and deaths? from it.

However, I did at the time have acess to a livestock scale and was able to get the exact weight of my minis.

I think that may of made all the difference in the world.

Not once did the minis have a problem with it.

But I have not used it since I read about the problems on this forum.

I think maybe it is one of those products that works too well and one really needs good livestock scale.

But those are spendy.

For now there are other wormers out on the market that work well and have a greater "buffer", so it is less likely to cause problems.

 

[susanne]

Even a good product is dangerous when its safety is so tied to accurate weight determination, so easy to overdose due to slipping of the plunger, and so lacking in any margin of error.

But even more troubling for me is Fort Dodge's response. Oh no, it's not their fault! It's the stupid consumer!

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

All we are trying to do hear, is show our concerns as miniature horse owners as a whole. We are just asking for better labeling on there product or to at least make mention that it should be used with extreme caution as for dosage with minis, if it MUST be used. IMO--all the other wormers are so much safer to use so why take the chance. Also, I would like to see REPS make mention of the fact that "if it is being used on minis to be exact with the weight or you could have a problem" not just fluff it off and say --its safe for ALL breeds of horses, and not make mention about dosing and minis. THAT can be misleading to new owners who are under the assumption that all wormers are safe even if overdosed. Hope this clears up what I am trying to say, as I have received some emails about this. Corinne

 

[Buckskin gal]

I think what really needs to be done is a warning put on Quest that it can be dangerous to give to horses that are heavily infested with worms. It can kill the worms off too fast and create a blockage. It may be safe at the recommended dosage IF the horse isn't heavily infested. We had a bad experience with the plunger not working properly, some years back and a mare had the full tube of it go into her!!!!! Were we ever scared to death!!! Confered with a lot of vets as what to do...many saying there wasn't anything we could do but wait and see. One vet did call Fort Dodge and they told her to oil the mare, so that was done. The mare acted perfectly normal through all of this. Well we were very very lucky that this incident did not turn into a disaster and our mare never had a single bad reaction !! Over time, we did do a lot of research on Quest and we now think the reason our mare came through just fine was because she was not heaviy infested with worms. Fort Dodge did pay for the vet bill from this incident but we never have used Quest again because we think there are other dewormers that are much safer. I feel so badly for those who have lost a horse after giving it Quest...they mean so much to us and we want to do everything right for them, then to loose one when trying to keep them healthy with deworming is really tragic. Mary

 

[Minimor]

Regardless of whatever claims of safety Ft Dodge makes about Quest, we will not use it here. When it first came out we did use it once on our Morgans--I simply wasn't impressed with the product. When it came to administering the gel, I just found I preferred the Eqvalan paste...don't ask me why, maybe it's just me, but, well, I found the paste nicer to use.

So Quest gets the encysted small strongyles. Whoopdeedoo. As long as the horses are dewormed regularly, the strongyles get eliminated regularly--and if there are never an excess of small strongyles there will not be encysted ones to eliminate. If the horse has a heavy load of encysted worms, I don't want them all being eliminated at once anyway.

I don't like hearing the repports (rumors?) of horses being dosed with Quest & then hours lated having signs of neurological issues. I don't know anyone personally that this has happened to, but Fort Dodge's website makes reference to foals being dosed with 5x the recommended amount, & they admit those foals had neurological issues, though none of the foals died. Wonderful. I don't expect to have a horse overdosed with wormer (be it because I misjudged his weight or because the plunger slipped) & then have a vet bill for treating neurological issues, even if I can later get reimbursed from the company. I just don't need that. I don't have a scale; therefore I deworm horses according to the weight which I guess them to be. With ivermectin I can guess them to be on the heavy side, & I know it is safe.

I will not use Quest on a horse that may have a heavy infestation of worms. I've bought some horses over the years that were in very poor condition & came here heavily infested with worms. I've used ivermectin on those horses & cleared out their worms & never had a case of colic doing it. In my mind it only stands to reason that since Quest kills encysted small strongyles, if the horse is heavily infested when all those dying, encysted worms break out of their hiding place....it just may cause a lot of damage and cause the horse to colic. The horse doesn't have to be overdosed to have this massive kill off of worms.

Do horses that are given the correct dose (100% for sure not overdosed) get neurological issues, or does this happen only in the case of overdose? If as I assume it is the latter then there does need to be very definite warnings on the label about not overdosing the horse. In Reble's case, they know their horse wasn't overdosed, but it does sound like he may have had a heavy load of worms, and the die off is what caused his colic. Is this product labelled with a warning to use the product very cautiously (or not at all) on horses which "may" have a very heavy worm load? (I honestly don't know, it's been YEARS since I used it that one time, & I haven't even bothered to read the label since that time.) If it doesn't...it should have.

 

[luvmycritters]

[SIZE=10pt]I am a new mini owner and that being said, am so glad that Corinne informed me NOT to purchase Quest - way back when. Quest is a wormer that always jumps out at me at the local feed mill and you always see the full page adds in horse magazines. I could have seen my self purchasing that for my mini's - or even the feed mill employees suggesting it. Scary scary scary to think what could have happened...

: Once again - thank you Corinne! [/SIZE]

 

[shminifancier]

Hmmm speaking of those plungers that don't work correct.. Tomorrow I will be going to the Factory that MAKES them for Farnam and other companies,,, that place is in Elmwood Wisc.... And we will also be driving right by the Tyler's that had the fire a few days ago as we drive right into Woodville on the Vending route to fill snack and soda machines....

 

[honeycomb max]

I will never use Quest. This forum provides information that I use daily. I love and respect my minis to much to ever use a product that as a hint of danger to their lives. At some time the manufactors have to realize that they may have a dangerous product and the lives and safety of all horses have to take first place and the profits have to take last place and remove the product.

 

[SkipsMom]

I will wait to pass judgement until the necropsy report is shared. None of us saw the poor mini which died. None of us are privy to the deworming schedule the owners used or the followup care the attending veterinarian provided. Likewise, none of us are insiders at Fort Dodge or know the inner circle, if you will.

The best way to express your opinion and anger is with your pocketbook. Purchase Merial or Intervet vaccines this year when it's time for spring vaccinations for all of your animals, not just the horses. Ditto deworming products. Money is what talks, no kidding.

Again, my condolences to Reble and the loss of what was clearly a special and extremely well loved miniature horse. Your horrible experience has generated a healthy discussion of the use of this product with our miniatures.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Again, I will point out that it is NOT the fact that Quest is "too good" that is in any way a danger.

The dangers of Moxidectin are two fold.

1) It is absorbed into the FAT of the horse and released over a period of up to thirteen weeks.

THUS if the horse has less body fat that is the norm for the calculated amount, you will inadvertently overdose the horse by releasing more than the specified amount into the digestive system,

EVEN WHEN ADMINISTERING EXACTLY THE RIGHT AMOUNT FOR THE HORSES EXACT WEIGHT.

2) The overdose rate, which is now stated at five times the stated amount, was originally stated at 3X the recommended amount. So...that has changed too!!!

There is no proof to indicate that Moxidectin is any better than Ivermectin at removing any worm except encysted small strongyles.

If you believe your horse to have an infestation of these then it really needs Veterinary care- the sudden migration of the worms alone could kill the horse, let alone suddenly worming it.

If you have small strongyles in a worm count I would always recommend using Fenbendazole five day as opposed to any "one dose cures all" chemical such as Moxidectin.

 

[Shari]

Even a good product is dangerous when its safety is so tied to accurate weight determination, so easy to overdose due to slipping of the plunger, and so lacking in any margin of error.

But even more troubling for me is Fort Dodge's response. Oh no, it's not their fault! It's the stupid consumer!

Very true.

That is why I said I no longer use it.

Seems like all companies are starting to be like that. Sigh ~ ~

The customer is no longer right. :no:

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

I'll add in from day one on this forum all i've heard are personal experiences, negative, when using Quest and then people on the forum speaking about that personal experience with other people - which may be considered the "rumors" when in actuality they're talking about a real experience, just not theirs.

I am VERY against Quest. I understand that when a 100% knowledgable person uses the exact amount to the T, they have a better chance of not seeing any issues with their horse, but miniatures are so hard to weigh (unless like previously mentioned, you own a stock scale) especially in winter when they have thick coats and your tape can OVER measure their weight...it's not worth it to screw around with moxidectin when you can use ivermectin SAFELY.

Even my mom has decided to waayy underdose her large horses after reading over the past couple of threads in regards to Quest. She uses it all the time on her horses but she now see's Quest in a different light, had a couple tubes left to use so she tape weighed her large horses and underdosed them, clearly showing her new concern.

I AM FULLY AGAINST USING QUEST ON MY MINI'S - HEAR ME LOUD AND CLEAR!!!

 

[Margo_C-T]

Back when this product was fairly new on the market, I recall a thread where a number of personal experiences WERE related. I believe that one in particular came from Linda R., who at the time lived in the Midwest, and owned a Rhotens Little Dandy son-if memory serves, she had a VET calculate the dose of "Quest" and administer it to a young miniature colt-yet the colt was lost. Does anyone else recall this? Is Linda still 'around'(I believe her life circumstances changed, and she no longer owns miniatures??) If she is, perhaps she could reiterate her personal experience.(What rabbitsfizz reports in her post about the characteristics of moxidectin might well explain losses such as suffered in the above instance...??)

As for myself, it is MY CHOICE not to use this product,for ANY of my horses, even my 'big'. I see no advantage to it. I have read reliable research that indicates that the 5 day, double dose regimen of fenbendazole actually does a much BETTER job of 'getting rid of' encysted small strongyles(i.e., much higher % of 'kill'). Yes, it will cost more than a single dose of "Quest", but to me, it is absolutely worth it.

 

[Southern_Heart]

I wouldn't use Quest if you gave me a million $$$$ and then gave me a million tubes of it!!

It needs to be banned from the shelves before some one that doesn't know about it kills their horses.

Joyce

 

[Miniv]

Margo,

Yes I remember Linda's situation very well. That was the incidence I referred to on another Quest Thread. Ft. Dodge, I'm sure, has that case on record as Linda persued it with them. I don't know if she got anywhere, though.

MA