Posting pix for shorthorsemom

[drivin*me*buggy]

Here you go

Her favorite pic of her boy and their new cart.

 

[Performancemini]

Love the pic! I wanna' go driving with her!(Too much rain here-need to send it to Diane!).

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Can't...see....details!!

Leia

 

[shorthorsemom]

Can't...see....details!!

Leia

Hi Leia, I asked Angie to post a couple of more closer photos. My trainer and I were discussing some minor harness adjustments after this lesson. My boy is butt high as you can see from the photos. His britching looks high and we considered lowering it, but didn't want to do it on the trail as my boy will throw in a buck every now and again and he was full of it that day.

Other than the britching, do you see anything interesting you would want to comment on? Also, on an aerocrown, do you sandwich your traces between the girth and the bellyband. I was instructed not to sandwich the traces and I forgot so in the photo they are not on the outside of the bellyband, they go between the bellyband and the girth, at least I think we didn't put them back the right way. Also, where do you position your trace carriers, do mine look ok? gotta run, will think of more I am sure.

 

[drivin*me*buggy]

Here you go Adair

Leia, any advice for using a kicking strap on this set up or just run it pretty much as usual?

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Yay, better pictures!

Leia, any advice for using a kicking strap on this set up or just run it pretty much as usual?

It's hard on curved shafts to keep them from slipping forward (and hence having too much slack) under pressure. I tried to adjust mine so it would hang vertically (not pulled forward or back) but would still be tight enough to work and crossed my fingers.

If you didn't mind making permanent modifications you could install another footman's loop or a projection like a tug stop to keep it in the appropriate location but I didn't want to do that to my nice cart when I wouldn't be using a kick strap for show.

On an aerocrown, do you sandwich your traces between the girth and the bellyband? I was instructed not to sandwich the traces and I forgot so in the photo they are not on the outside of the bellyband, they go between the bellyband and the girth, at least I think we didn't put them back the right way.

It is ALWAYS proper to run the traces between the overgirth/bellyband and the girth. The overgirth acts as a trace carrier in itself and for most horses and turnouts there will not be any interference in the line of the traces by doing so. If there is then that needs to be addressed, but every book I've read and every instructor I've ever had all say the traces should run between the saddle and the tugs.

What you do NOT want to do is run the traces through the shaft loops themselves or sandwich them within any wrapstraps you may have. They should move freely and won't if you break their line (from breastcollar to singletree) or tangle them up in tight leather.

You can see here how I have mine run on the MiniCrown. The extra strap confusing the picture by the tug is his right rein drooping down and please note that the traces are NOT running through my holdback straps in this case- they are running beneath them. It's hard to tell in the picture.

Also, where do you position your trace carriers, do mine look ok?

Mine hang off my breeching ring and I try to adjust them so they hang straight down, capture the traces when they begin to droop but do not pull upward on them at any time including at a canter. It's difficult to see yours in the picture but as long as they keep the traces from drooping down where the horse could step over them they're probably fine.

You can see mine here on the Hyperbike, the trace itself is hidden behind the shaft from this angle. This is also a good shot of how the breeching should sit.

His britching looks high and we considered lowering it ... Other than the britching, do you see anything interesting you would want to comment on?

I wouldn't say the breeching is high so much as your hipstrap is too far forward and causing the breeching to tip. Adjust the backstrap so the hipstrap sits further back and I bet you'll find it levels out and sits at the correct height without any further adjustments.

Here are a couple of shots I found online of Kody in my Minicrown, you can see how the traces run and how the breeching and trace carriers fit.

(This was three months after Kody's last stifle surgery so he was out of shape and so was I! LOL. I had to brace both feet forward as he was hauling rear over rough ground.)

I had a clearer photo in mind but don't seem to have uploaded it.

Everything should form a balanced picture- the breastcollar and breeching at the same height and sitting level, the traces in an uninterrupted line from shoulder to singletree, the saddle perfectly vertical in the middle, and everything flowing without interference. Every strap should be tidy and as long as it needs to be without a lot of excess.

If I had your turnout I think I'd be shortening the shafts just a little bit more as he's still sort of "out there" in front and the shorter your rig, the tighter your turn radius and the less effort it is for your horse. He'd still have plenty of room behind his hocks even at a canter judging from those pictures. Your saddle is way too far forward but I'm pretty sure you know that

and a diet and more exercise will help considerably in getting it further back. That's a neat style of breastcollar and one I've always liked but it's actually designed to have the neckstrap up over the check hook and I'd put it that way as having it in front of the withers like that is stretching the leather a little bit and not distributing the weight as it is designed to. I'm trying to see how your holdback straps are wrapped and it looks like it's all being done under the shafts? That works well with a Meadowbrook or other cart where the shafts sit above the level of the breeching but is not appropriate with the low gig-style shafts of the Aerocrown. Go back to wrapping them traditionally (under the shaft, around the shaft then back OVER the shaft) as then it will stop pulling the front of your breeching down and let it hang level.

Your boy is adorable and looks like he's moving very well for his build. I know you guys have been training him right! The only other thing I'd comment on is your foot placement. I used to sit like you with my knees at a 90 degree angle and feet braced wide apart under them and the first clinician I ever worked with stopped me, put his hands on his hips and announced with a twinkle in his eye that I looked like a tobacco-chewing truck driver.

He told me to sit like a lady with my knees together and one foot braced forward on the sloped floorboard and it did indeed make a huge difference in my appearance and stability.

When your own energy is so grounded out (flat seat, flat feet, lots of right angles) your horse is going to move the same restricted way. If you want him to be light and agile and dance for you, you need to sit so that you can flex your hipbones and use your core muscles for more than pushing yourself into a stiff upright position. You aren't in a wheelchair- USE your lower body even when driving! Your horse will feel it.

Right now the entire impression energetically is that your body below the elbows has been forgotten and locked into a rolling exoskeleton- you sit down, surrender your own mobility, and he picks you up and flies. I would rather see an active driver who is using her core and seat bones to ride the horse from behind him, collecting him and sending him forward with whole-body energy of her own. Can you get a sloped cushion made for that seat? That would help as it would put you slightly higher above the side pads, open the angles of your lower body, put more weight on your feet and thighs, and set you slightly further forward so you'd have more length available in your legs to brace properly.

Sorry to get so "zen/frou frou" on you, but I do love my dressage!

You both look quite nice, I'm only nit-picking because you invited it and I know you love to get constructive criticism as much as I do.

There are many good things about your posture and overall you both make a nice picture.

Leia

 

[shorthorsemom]

AWESOME critique Leia, thank you sooooooooo much!!! I will have to write some of those tips on paper so my over 50 brain won't forget by the time I go from the computer to the cart.

I need to learn everything all over again on this cart and both me and Ike are out of shape and we need more miles.

I can see exactly what you mean about the back strap adjustment, will do that first. On the breast collar, we wanted to order a slighly longer tab to attach to the saddle, the one that is on the collar now pulls everything so hard and tight we went without it because it was laying a bit odd

My trainer wants me to start using my new harness, she does not like the way the saddle on this harness fits Ike and my new harness sits better on his back and looks better on him, but I need to order bridle pieces without blinkers so we can use everything on the new set all together. This saddle saddle fits better when he isn't so chubby, we took off the saddle pad trying to get it to lay straighter but it still wants to tip .

On the britching straps, I know what you mean exactly, makes more sense, but when do you go through the footmans loop with the strap? Do I go under through the loop, around the shaft and then back over the top to buckle? Currently I go under, up over the top, back through the footmans loop and then buckle. I can see the tip you describe. So much easier to read your post and then go back and look at the photos...

I want to say more but I have to go run an errand... Again, thank you sooooo much. I love your opinion. My trainer works with a different type of cart on her biggies and she has been tweeking my fit like crazy since I got the new cart, but I think she is not satisfied with how the overall look is yet. I will see how I can work in these changes without her feeling like I am not listening. She goes over my hook up every time with a fine tooth comb. Adair

 

[hobbyhorse23]

On the breast collar, we wanted to order a slightly longer tab to attach to the saddle, the one that is on the collar now pulls everything so hard and tight we went without it because it was laying a bit odd

Bailing twine.

Just make a little figure eight with bailing twine, put one end around the check hook and slip the neck strap through the other end. Voila!

My trainer wants me to start using my new harness, she does not like the way the saddle on this harness fits Ike and my new harness sits better on his back and looks better on him, but I need to order bridle pieces without blinkers so we can use everything on the new set all together.

There's nothing wrong with using a different bridle.

That's my Ozark Mtn. show harness bridle with my Camptown harness and a sliding backband saddle from Chimacum Tack! The Harness Police aren't going to jump out and get you, I promise.

On the britching straps, I know what you mean exactly, makes more sense, but when do you go through the footmans loop with the strap? Do I go under through the loop, around the shaft and then back over the top to buckle? Currently I go under, up over the top, back through the footmans loop and then buckle.

Exactly. The strap goes through the footman's loop under the shaft, gets wrapped once or twice from outside to inside in front of the footman's loop, then tucked beneath the closest wrap to the footman's loop and buckled back over the shaft.

I've tried to make your method work with my show cart for obstacle class and have never been able to figure out how to put it back through the footman's loop without twisting the strap! How do you do that?

My trainer works with a different type of cart on her biggies and she has been tweeking my fit like crazy since I got the new cart, but I think she is not satisfied with how the overall look is yet. I will see how I can work in these changes without her feeling like I am not listening. She goes over my hook up every time with a fine tooth comb.

As she should.

If I were you I'd just print this out, highlight the suggestions you're considering and tell her you asked some friends for their opinions and wonder what she thinks of their suggestions. I tell you the WHY on every single suggestion; see if she agrees with the logic! If you're not comfortable with bringing other people into it then just note the thoughts and the reasons for yourself and discuss them with her without mentioning where you got them. She sounds like a good trainer, I'm sure she'll be open to discussion.

Leia

 

[shorthorsemom]

Thanks Leia... I am the harness police... LOL... my trainer laughed at me when I said I wanted to use the new set all together at the same time... I was afraid if I parted it out, It wouldn't force me to fix the bridle. Also, I never treated the new harness and my trainer says the first thing to hit the new harness shouldn't be sweat.

I think I will add a pony tail tie from my kids to get the loop extended for the breast collar.

Something we do that I always wondered about, she has me put my reins under the straps of the breast collar... what's up with that? I noticed you don't do that. My old harness had those rein guides on the top of the breast collar strap but my current harness does not so we slide the reins under the straps on their way to the bit... I think so I don't drop a rein enough so that it gets under the shaft tip might be why...

Oh yeah... we also thought the cart was too far back, we were planning to fix that but haven;t gone through the adjustment, I am dreading more measurements on the shafts again but know it is coming. They really are NO fun to adjust. My boy was perfect between the shafts before he got the lay off and now he is filling them up like a muffin spilling over the tin.

Ike will occasionally throw in a buck and we couldn't use the bucking strap on him so I think that was the original line of thinking about not being as worried yet about the distance out away from the driver,...He is almost buck free now, did I just say that out loud? Knock on wood knock on wood knock on wood...

I think on the britching hook up method she chose is that she said it is so you can get unhooked quickly if you need to, she said my method makes it easy to get unbuckled without cutting anything should there be a wreck? but I never did like how the strap didn't lay flat, but I don't remember any twist when I do it...

Actually I think my trainer would be interested to see the photos, I often think a picture captured is easier to critique than when a horse is moving. I told her I would love to find the day when I hook up and we don't have to change anything that day... LOL Adair

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Something we do that I always wondered about, she has me put my reins under the straps of the breast collar... what's up with that? I noticed you don't do that. My old harness had those rein guides on the top of the breast collar strap but my current harness does not so we slide the reins under the straps on their way to the bit... I think so I don't drop a rein enough so that it gets under the shaft tip might be why...

Yep.

I don't do it because I have rein terrets on my FC and use them. I tried not using them for awhile as they were too high and pulled the line of my reins up but the reins constantly got caught under the downturned tip of my Bellcrown shafts so I used a couple of cheap black carabiners to extend my neck terrets down a few inches unobtrusively and that works nicely. I don't have a problem in my EE or show cart, just with the gig shafts.

Oh yeah... we also thought the cart was too far back, we were planning to fix that but haven;t gone through the adjustment, I am dreading more measurements on the shafts again but know it is coming. They really are NO fun to adjust.

Run a strip of electrical tape along the shaft over the join and cut it with a pocket knife so there's half on the shaft and half on the shaft socket. Then when you reinsert the shaft you just line up the two pieces of tape and tighten it down. Use an extra-long strip if you need to shorten the shafts and peel back the part you're going to cover until you've got it far enough in.

Ike will occasionally throw in a buck and we couldn't use the bucking strap on him so I think that was the original line of thinking about not being as worried yet about the distance out away from the driver,...He is almost buck free now, did I just say that out loud? Knock on wood knock on wood knock on wood...

Why couldn't you use the kicking strap? Whether they are close to the cart or not, they CAN get a leg over the shaft on these carts. Kody did it once and cantered along three-legged for a few strides until I could get him stopped and managed to get it back over. Scared the you-know-what out of me!

I think on the britching hook up method she chose is that she said it is so you can get unhooked quickly if you need to, she said my method makes it easy to get unbuckled without cutting anything should there be a wreck?

I've heard that reasoning before but personally find it more difficult to release a buckle hidden under the shaft than one right on top of it. The best thing to do if you get in an accident is release the backstrap buckle so the entire rear assembly is left with the cart! Then all you have to release is the overgirth and the traces. (As a personal note, releasing the traces is a WITCH when they're under pressure! Been there, had to try to do that with a seriously sprained wrist in an accident, it was NOT fun. I would have killed for quick-release traces at the shoulder! They help at the back of the cart but in that particular case I couldn't reach the singletree as it was buried in a stand of trees. I finally got one trace unbuckled at the front, undid the neck strap and false martingale and let it fall to the side. Then I just freed one side of the overgirth and walked the horse forward out of the shafts. You couldn't do that with wrap straps- yet another reason to avoid them!)

Actually I think my trainer would be interested to see the photos, I often think a picture captured is easier to critique than when a horse is moving.

It is- that's why I have my mom take so many pictures when I first start driving my horses or put them in new equipment! I critique my own photos harder than anyone.

Leia

 

[shorthorsemom]

My kicking strap is way too short now to use with the lowered shafts. I need to get another made longer (I know, baling twine)...

. I love the electrical tape idea for adjusting the shafts, I am going to try that.

My trainer is coming tomorrow with a plan to do some adjustments, she says it is time to tweek again.

You have given me tons of information today, thank you so much, I will show her the photos she took, a picture is worth a thousand words.... She didn't like the fit of the britching last week and that will probably be the first thing she fixes. His weight up and down makes heck for adjustments. I have photos of Ikes former owner showing him and everything looks to fit better then (same harness too), but he was in much better shape too.

I might have it wrong about sandwiching the trace. I do not sandwich the trace into the britching on this cart.

What's a carabiner?

My trainer is watching me carefully, you will laugh... she jogs around with me while I am driving. I admire her stamina, she has long legs and she runs and cuts across paths and keeps up and instructs me closely. since we are getting faster now with the weight difference she is getting a 4 wheeler ready for following me so she doesn't have to run so much. I laugh, Ike looks for her and heads her direction as if to say, "hey Lori is over there, we have to go that way"... We are working to shake things up so he doesn't get dependent on her while I am driving.

His "tude" he used to have when he first came is getting so much better now that he and I are bonded. My trainer says "did he just give me a kiss?", we used to call him Oscar because he was such a grouch when harnessing and now instead of trying to chomp us, he gives kisses and lets me rub his head, he used to be like hooking up a little fat alligator and now he is so sweet and he so looks forward to going out, we must be making him happy on his drives.

thanks again Leia,

Adair

 

[shorthorsemom]

Me again... I thought about using a wedge seat after i saw my position in the seat in the photos. I thought I looked so funny at first which is why I only had Angie post that one far away photo from the side, then I decided what the heck, post the funny ones too. I laughed out loud when I saw my feet and leg position... and mentally said to myself... Don't look like you are sitting on a latrine next time you go out driving...

My problem with the wedge seat would be if it raises my height I may be too high to get my feet on the floor. I thought about getting a cart with a raised floor at first because my legs are so short, but I got the standard seat height instead. In the bellcrown mini crown with the higher seat pad I am definitely too high up so raising the cushion might mess me up with this cart configuration. I was also wondering about moving the seat forward some, but where it is the cart seems nice and balanced and the bracket holes to attach the seat need a different kind of nut to use the holes all the way forward. hard to describe, but the wing nuts interfere with the bracket on a couple of the hole choices.

Adair

 

[shorthorsemom]

Leia, how far from his hocks to the singletree should he be in the cart? I know biggies it is 18 inches. My boy was a bit close in his meadowbrook.. I have no idea how far out minis should be..

thanks

Adair

 

[shorthorsemom]

Didn't get photos yesterday but in my lesson we leveled out and fixed the tipped britching. We left the cart the same distance for now. It measures 12 inches from the singletree to his hock. My meadowbrook was 8 inches.

We didn't want to lose the whole lesson in adjustments since leveling out the britching and doing tweeking caused all sorts of minor tweeking everywhere else. One thing changed affects other things you wouldn't expect.

I put a little extender on the breast collar tab to hook it to the saddle and it lays much nicer. Amazing how one little thing can affect all the other parts of the harness when I put the tab from the breast plate to the saddle top, the saddle tipped more upright and then it affected the fit of the britching and other parts and the tweeking started all over. My instructor says this is why she shows me how every part should fit, so I am not tempted to just count holes and hook up the same every time, to check out my hook up for the horse every time I drive. Especially true on minis where smaller increments in their weight can make bigger changes to the fit of the rig than on a biggie.

I was also watching my posture and my feet, one on the floor, one forward for bracing and knees together. Although my body kept morphing into the original posture from the first photos, I did really work hard to change my bad posture habit. Will take some time to develop a new posture that comes naturally every time I sit down in the cart. I tried the zen that Leia described, will take practice to develop, but felt cool trying..

On another note, we had the best lesson we ever had. My boy was right on, in a great mood, working hard and we did lesson work on how to view the lay of the land and how to choose the best path for the cart and the horse, kind of like we were doing a hazard course and plotting every thing out, but it was my instructor jogging along with me telling me angle and approach and how to plan turns etc. She said we did great, made me feel proud. We worked hard and my chubby boy was hardly sweating and he wasn't as tired.. she pointed out that when you do it all right and everything fits right, it is so much easier on the horse. That plus the major weight difference of the new cart and lighter driver... I think we are on the right track.

It is so nice working with someone experienced and to get such great input from experienced forum members... ....

 

[drivin*me*buggy]

Sounds like a great lesson! Thanks for including us

Angie

 

[hobbyhorse23]

What's a carabiner?

Those little clippy things like you see on some keychains and flashlights where you push in one side to open them? They're originally climbing gear but I just use the cheap plastic ones for this as they aren't weightbearing.

His "tude" he used to have when he first came is getting so much better now that he and I are bonded. ... we used to call him Oscar because he was such a grouch when harnessing and now instead of trying to chomp us, he gives kisses and lets me rub his head, he used to be like hooking up a little fat alligator and now he is so sweet and he so looks forward to going out, we must be making him happy on his drives.

:rofl

Hitching up a little fat alligator? I love that mental image!!

And I absolutely think you're right- better equipment that allows him to do his job comfortably and a driver who cares will make all the difference in a horse's enjoyment.

My problem with the wedge seat would be if it raises my height I may be too high to get my feet on the floor. I thought about getting a cart with a raised floor at first because my legs are so short, but I got the standard seat height instead. In the bellcrown mini crown with the higher seat pad I am definitely too high up so raising the cushion might mess me up with this cart configuration.

No, the wedge seat is higher in the rear only and what it does is put your weight more on your feet and the back of your thighs instead of on your butt. Your head will be higher, yes, but it is actually going to give you MORE weight on your feet, more ability to brace, not less.

I got the standard 3" foam bench seat on my Minicrown and found every time we went over a bump my feet bounced right up off the floorboards, leaving me no way to secure myself in the cart. I had a local upholstery shop replace the original bench seat with two side blocks (the part you can see in those pictures) and a center piece that was the same height in the rear but sloped down to the height of the wooden seat board (which I could sit on without a problem) and which was made of softer foam so I'd sink in a bit instead of bouncing off of it. That solved the problem nicely. When/if I get an Aerocrown for Turbo I will order it with a wedge seat and the floorboards custom-fit for me and expect I'll have a very secure position in the cart.

Leia, how far from his hocks to the singletree should he be in the cart? I know biggies it is 18 inches. My boy was a bit close in his meadowbrook.. I have no idea how far out minis should be..

It depends on how they move. For CDE you want them as close as you can get them without hitting their hocks. For a big mover that might be pretty far, for another it might be less. Just make sure there's no chance of the singletree hitting his hind legs even during a sudden stop and put him maybe a couple inches in front of that. Right now from those four pictures it looks like he could be a little closer.

Leia