new mini - very "quiet"

[studiowvw]

Hello

I've acquired a 36.5 inch pinto yearling in a trade for other livestock last week. She's very quiet - does not move her feet much - when with people, although she can run quite well when she's free.

In Parelli-land we'd call her an introvert

In fact I would call her an extreme introvert when around people. Have not decided whether she is primarily right brained (going on instincts), or left brained (thinking). I don't feel that she's very confident.

Just wondering whether this type could develop into a driver - i.e. whether the sticky feet could learn to move.

Or if anyone has trained this type of personality and found them not suitable. I mean if her tendency is to stop dead when worried and won't go.

The right-brained introverts tend to appear very quiet and calm, but when pushed too far or too fast, can be the ones that explode when you don't expect it. On the other hand, they can learn to be more expressive (easier to read!!!), as my AQHA mare is now.

I wonder if this sticky-footed quality is trained into her, as she seems to be relaxing now that she's been here for a week.

What happens is when I'm leading her (for example through a door or a gate) she will stop dead, and the only way to get her through is to shove or drag. I've had a bit more luck when I wait for her to decide to move - I think she just needs longer to look around.

She does look like a great kids' pony, because she just stands there.

She's in the middle in this pic.

 

[Minimor]

Well, I have to say I don't think it necessarily means much that she'll stall out while going through a gate. I've got a couple that will do this sometimes, and really they are just being bratty little horses. I will drop back a bit and say GET GOING! and maybe flick them in the back end with the end of the shank & they say okay & move along. It's not really a left brain/right brain thing at all, simply a matter of not having a lot done with them & they figure they just need to go when/where they want to and maybe not otherwise. Or, every so often I have one that will be a little less bold & thinks oooh, scary, I can't go through THERE and so has to be persuaded to go through a different gate or the door into the show barn...I do find that with more exposure to strange places these horses get over that & realize that there isn't a horse eating goblin hiding behind every unfamiliar gate or door!

As far as driving a horse who is inclined to stop when he gets worried, I don't actually find that a bad thing. When I'm training a horse I actually don't mind finding out that when he gets confused or a bit unnerved that he wants to STOP and not move. Believe me, that is much nicer than if he wants to bolt or start leaping about (and there are those who are inclined to do either of those things as well). A horse that gets frightened and stops isn't a problem--I reassure him, get things straightened out and convince him that it's okay to start moving forward again.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

A horses natural instinct when something worries it is to stop.

It's next instinct is to turn round and run away fast, so if you have a horse that does not do that I would say that is a bonus. I am assuming you have had her eyesight checked by a Vet to make sure she has complete vision?

An animal that has come from an unknown source and is quiet may just well mean it has not found it's feet yet and is biding it's time- never confuse acceptance with temperament because that way lies disaster (and explosions!)

I also think a year is too young to truly assess temperament (unless you have had the animal form birth) as a lot can happen between one and three years, when training starts.

 

[Sandee]

My 2 cents ( and that's all it's worth) is she is young and not handled a great deal. Give her some time to adjust and lots of attention. A yearling is way too early to decide if she's driving material.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I would say that you don't really know the horse well enough yet to be making any real decisions about her. You haven't seen her true day to day personality. She is not much more than a baby and has been taken away from her herd and introduced into a new situation. She is, after only a week, settling in fairly well on the equine side of things judging from the photo that shows her equadistant between her 2 pasture mates (Lacey is lookin' great by the way

) She hasn't become buddies with either from the look of it yet but hasn't made enemies either. Once she is more comfortable in her position with you, you will start to see her true nature. She may not be very confidant (but then what baby really is?) but she is intelligent enough to keep herself safe by not just complacently accepting her new situation.

I disagree that a horse's natural instinct is to stop when faced with the unknown. MOST horse's natural instincts tell them to immediately flee from anything scary or even suspicious. Some horse's that are domesticated will stop rather than bolt from danger (not a good trait in a wild horse that could end up dead as a result) and that is a good trait as far as we are concerned.

I think this horse needs to learn to lead properly and give to pressure and that will help with the gate issues along with her gaining confidance in you. You would not believe the number of fully grown horses that have never been truly taught to lead.

I think you need to let this horse get to know and trust you before you start to make complete assessments on her personality. It sounds to me like she could be quite intelligent and may well make a great driving horse.

 

[studiowvw]

I would say that you don't really know the horse well enough yet to be making any real decisions about her. You haven't seen her true day to day personality. She is not much more than a baby and has been taken away from her herd and introduced into a new situation. She is, after only a week, settling in fairly well on the equine side of things judging from the photo that shows her equadistant between her 2 pasture mates (Lacey is lookin' great by the way

) She hasn't become buddies with either from the look of it yet but hasn't made enemies either. Once she is more comfortable in her position with you, you will start to see her true nature. She may not be very confidant (but then what baby really is?) but she is intelligent enough to keep herself safe by not just complacently accepting her new situation.

I disagree that a horse's natural instinct is to stop when faced with the unknown. MOST horse's natural instincts tell them to immediately flee from anything scary or even suspicious. Some horse's that are domesticated will stop rather than bolt from danger (not a good trait in a wild horse that could end up dead as a result) and that is a good trait as far as we are concerned.

I think this horse needs to learn to lead properly and give to pressure and that will help with the gate issues along with her gaining confidance in you. You would not believe the number of fully grown horses that have never been truly taught to lead.

I think you need to let this horse get to know and trust you before you start to make complete assessments on her personality. It sounds to me like she could be quite intelligent and may well make a great driving horse.

Actually the pinto (Cosmo) came with the little black one from the same place, but my neighbour liked the black one more than I did, so that one's now gone next door.

Thank you, Lori, Lacey is looking like a mini Haflinger and is doing great

She's bossing Cosmo, but not being too mean.

One thing I am thinking that Cosmo has learned to lead by following the person's body motion, not from the feel of the rope. Therefore the feel on the halter doesn't mean anything to her. She also doesn't follow hand signals like the rest of my horses do, no surprise, but usually most new horses will move without too much encouragement.

There are lots of ways to get her moving, but I want to figure out how to go about it before I start making mistakes with a filly so gentle.

Like if she was left-brain like Lacey is, I could see it as resistance from "I-don't-wanna" and could be more firm with her. If she was right-brain like my AQHA mare used to be, I would want to give her lots of reassurance and confidence.

I'm trying to assess whether I want to keep Cosmo before I start training her my way - right now she's very gentle in her manner and stands very still around people. So she would be great for someone who wanted her for a family pet (with supervision of course).

I've had better luck leading her when I give her time to stop and look around. I'm just trying to decide whether she's fearful or stubborn, but oddly enough I can't say she is either. I'm thinking she needs time to experience new things. I've tried to follow a similar routine with variations each day, to see what happens. When I give her the time, she wants to look at everything. She's also not motivated much by food.

Today I put the 2 big horses into the mini paddocks and I let Lacey and Cosmo out in the big field. Lacey of course got busy eating (no. 1 motivation). Cosmo started to run around in big circles as fast as she could go, switching leads and kicking in the air. So she certainly is able to move out when she wants. She was also running on uneven ground, so can't be blind.

I guess I was asking these questions about balky horses because she has a personality that I find puzzling.

I've rescued quite a few horses - last month I got a yearling arab with a history of abuse - he is now gelded, and has my older arab gelding "mentoring" him. He learns well, is left brained and showing good progress. Trains easy in spite of having experienced everything a horse shouldn't. I was careful as he was aggressive (he had never been with another horse, so was trying to play with people) - my best fix for that was to send my retired gelding down there to teach him some manners - that only took about 5 minutes.

Then about 3 weeks ago I got another young stallion (reining bloodlines) - 2.5 years, again with almost no training, and feet not trimmed. He's also gelded now. I've been making some progress with some liberty techniques. He knew all about haltering - what he knew to do was yank the rope and run away. He is also aggressive in the field - that is, I was reading it as aggression, until a couple of days ago I came to an understanding of his behaviour - he's spent all his life in a pasture, where the neighbours would come and give him treats and pat his face - his owner was too busy to do much with him. So almost all his handling has been from the other side of the fence. I suddenly realized that his "aggression" in the field is just unconfidence - he doesn't have much experience with a person actually approaching him from the side. So although I had to protect myself a few times and whapped him to stop him from running over me, I feel I made mistakes with him.

Instead of seeing the pinned ears etc. as offense, I think it's defense. I now have to find more friendly ways to get him used to me standing beside him. That can be as simple as standing there until he relaxes and turns to look at me.

So having made that mistake with him, I'm looking at Cosmo and trying to figure her out before I go about changing her

I do find that horses tend to show their basic traits when they're young and in the past I wasted years trying to change some of them. However, I never had one this balky before.

With Lacey, I loved everything about her and still do - she liked me right off the bat, and still does

Her tendency is to slow down when she's scared, and move out when she's feeling good. I like her conformation and her colouring. I also love that she's left-brain most of the time.

One other thing about Cosmo - regarding her vision. She does have one blue eye. The vet who came to geld the two horses said that he had talked to students who did a study on horses with blue eyes - apparently their finding was that horses with blue eyes were somewhat more flighty and they thought the blue eye actually doesn't have as good vision.

I think what I'm going to do next is line drive Lacey and take Cosmo along to see what she does. I'll be prepared that she might only walk behind, but after a while, maybe I'll be able to send her up next to Lacey.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Lori,if you think about it, a horse has to stop in order to run away- it is the running away thing that we have managed, most of the time, to control by domestication.

I have never heard, beyond old wives tales, of blue eyes being weak- I know too many blue yes animals to believe that is true!

In a CrCr animal, it is possible that the animal is more reactive in bright sunlight as this is a form of albinism- but those blue eyes are different form Splash blue eyes.

 

[Minimor]

A horse has to stop to run away? Not so. A horse can be going forward, spook from something behind him and take off running without ever even thinking about stopping. He can spook from something to either side without ever stopping--he can simply launch himself sideways & land running, or he can wheel around and take off running the other way without actually stopping...he may stop dead if something flies up directly in front of him--then he will sometimes stop abruptly. Depending on the horse he may identify the threat and decide if he should flee in another direction or if it is safe to continue on his original path.

Forgot to add--if the scary thing is far enough away that the horse doesn't feel it is an immediate danger, then yes, it is quite normal for the horse to stand still & look at it while he tries to identify it. He may stand and "blow" --I believe that often the blowing is an attempt to startle the scary thing into moving so that he can better identify it--of perhaps to simply scare it into leaving. If the scary thing is too close for comfort, or if it pops suddenly into view the horse is likely to run away first then when he's put some distance between himself and the thing he will turn & stand & look at it.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Yeah, Holly has it right! I can count on one hand the number of horses I have trained that would come to a halt BEFORE flight. Horses ARE flight animals. That is their number one protection. Their instinct is to leave the vicinity if something is scary. I have had horses I am riding or driving at a full out trot or canter suddenly wheel and bolt in the opposite direction. I had a riding mare at an extended trot suddenly leap 6 feet sideways when a pheasant flew up from out of the bush at our side - she made it home LONG before I did. I had a driving horse going quietly along at a nice steady working trot that suddenly whirled and bolted when she spotted the large boulder that blocks motor vehicles from entering our trail. Absolutely no hesitation, let alone stopping, with either of them. I have seen horses in my pastures, that are calmly munching grass, suddenly pop their heads up and bolt for the far side of the paddock because a cow has poked his head out of the bush or a crow has landed in the paddock or the kids next door have made a noise out of the ordinary. They stand tensed to run, snorting and blowing until they make up their minds whether or not they need to run farther. They quite often bounce and trot in small circles or back and forth always keeping an eye on whatever has startled them. Horses are flight animals.

 

[studiowvw]

Yes, my arab gelding could change direction or speed in a split second - no need to stop.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Well, I guess all these years I have had some very strange horses!

A horse stops, looks, assesses the situation, in a split second, but, believe me, they do have to stop- if they are just going to whip round and run that is a whole different thing. If they see something they are not sure of they will stop and prick their ears, in a herd situation they may even look at other horses to see how they are reacting, they will often look at the lead animal for direction.

Turning and bolting is a different reaction. I thought we were talking about an assessing situation, which seems to me to be what the OP's horse was doing, classically.

Maybe I was wrong?

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Yes, my arab gelding could change direction or speed in a split second - no need to stop.

So could mine- with or without me!!

 

[studiowvw]

My best description of riding him was like riding a canoe in a wind (best to go with the flow

He would not slow, check or stop, his muscles would just hit the gas pedal.

 

[studiowvw]

Turning and bolting is a different reaction. I thought we were talking about an assessing situation, which seems to me to be what the OP's horse was doing, classically.

Maybe I was wrong?

Yes, she certainly seems to want to look around, but she does it in a dreamy way - there is no spook or fear.

I think she is more like a donkey the way she digs her feet in, however she is learning to follow my hands a little better. Also giving her as long as she wants to look around, means she has started taking less time each time.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Horses are always a bit intimidated by closed or confining spaces such as trailers, gates, stalls, etc. particularly if they have had a bad experience in such a space but they are all somewhat hesitant when it is a new situation. You can certainly allow her to learn her new home by giving her time and not forcing her to do anything out of hand but I would not let it get too far as there could well be times that it is IMPERATIVE that they move when you say move - such as if a vehicle is bearing down on you. I prefer to teach them to give to pressure when being led so that any time they are hesitant or fearful they can fall back on giving to pressure. It has been my experience that if a horse hesitates and you stop with them and allow them to think that it was a good idea to stop you are reinforcing the behaviour and allowing them to think they are dominant. Another more dominant horse that wants to go through the gate to get to feed say or into their stall would give them a chomp on the butt and shoulder them out of the way at which point they would follow the more dominant horse's lead and go through the gate. We don't need to be quite so brutal but there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting pressure on the lead shank and saying "come NOW". As long as you are careful to instantly release the pressure when they come forward and be sure not to get them into a bad situation when asking them to give to the pressure they will quickly learn that you are more dominant and also trustworthy and will lead anywhere, anytime, you ask them to. Everything you teach them on the ground will carry through their training all the way to under saddle or in harness.

 

[studiowvw]

Horses are always a bit intimidated by closed or confining spaces such as trailers, gates, stalls, etc. particularly if they have had a bad experience in such a space but they are all somewhat hesitant when it is a new situation. You can certainly allow her to learn her new home by giving her time and not forcing her to do anything out of hand but I would not let it get too far as there could well be times that it is IMPERATIVE that they move when you say move - such as if a vehicle is bearing down on you. I prefer to teach them to give to pressure when being led so that any time they are hesitant or fearful they can fall back on giving to pressure. It has been my experience that if a horse hesitates and you stop with them and allow them to think that it was a good idea to stop you are reinforcing the behaviour and allowing them to think they are dominant. Another more dominant horse that wants to go through the gate to get to feed say or into their stall would give them a chomp on the butt and shoulder them out of the way at which point they would follow the more dominant horse's lead and go through the gate. We don't need to be quite so brutal but there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting pressure on the lead shank and saying "come NOW". As long as you are careful to instantly release the pressure when they come forward and be sure not to get them into a bad situation when asking them to give to the pressure they will quickly learn that you are more dominant and also trustworthy and will lead anywhere, anytime, you ask them to. Everything you teach them on the ground will carry through their training all the way to under saddle or in harness.

Thanks, Lori!

Great advice and details - that fits with my philosophy

I have started to be more insistent about her getting out of my way and I'm getting a bit more flow.

 

[studiowvw]

End of the saga:Ah well - the neighbours who bought the little black mini came back and wanted Cosmo too. Their old pony (welsh type) around 30 y.o. died this week and the black one was lonely.

I was getting to like Cosmo quite well and starting to teach her a few things, like how to go through the gate when I sent her.

They just want her for a companion and for the kids, which she seems quite suited to. Her conformation is narrow in front, and toes out.

I just have the problem of having Lacey alone in the barn now that the sheep and goats are gone. I don't like to let her run with the big horses at night for fear of coyotes.

Contemplating whether I should get her another one for company, or use the money to get a better harness as hers is on the small side for her.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I would get a cat to give her company in the barn at night, get the new harness and become her daytime companion myself.

 

[studiowvw]

I would get a cat to give her company in the barn at night, get the new harness and become her daytime companion myself.

I do have an extra barn cat, whether he would stay in the barn with her I don't know.

What about chickens? I have some extra chickens too. She can hear them at night on the other side of the wall, maybe that's enough?

She was more tuned in to me before I got the other two minis. With them she was bossy and jealous around me.

I like the Camptown harness, also the one on Country Carriages USA with the super V and sliding backband.

The harness is really starting to feel a bit smaller on her now that she has muscled out more.

W