More Carriage Harness pictures

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rabbitsfizz said:
I agree Leia but a lot of Minis have a problem with settling the collar into the right place- the option of a "V" would be marvellous especially if you could buy it separately.  Do you, on that side of the Pond, not go for what I call "reciprocating" tugs?? Ie the tugs strap passes through the saddle so the shafts can move-
The contoured collars I refer to (like the ones from Smucker's, etc.) have a cutout for the windpipe. That's what makes them "contoured," that, or the ones that actually have a bit of an up-and-down to them like a Deep V, just not as extreme. That seems to eliminate the problem of fit on the 15 plus minis or so that compete ADS around here.
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Don't get me wrong, I like the deep V's! I have one now. Just saying a slightly less obvious curve can look better, at least to my eye. Maybe just more traditional.
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I've heard of tug straps that pass through the saddle but I believe they were listed as the primary definitive feature of a gig saddle? To be used with gig shafts? I certainly haven't seen one yet for the minis, but then again my exposure has been pretty limited. Thanks Minihgal for a look at what might make them better or worse then fixed straps.

Dr. Pam, can you address the question ClickMini asked about the tugs? I was awaiting an answer on those too, once she brought it to my attention. I've seen that style before but don't know what it's called or how it works.

I'm also curious- was the 1st edition breastcollar pictured here done with patent? It looks so nice...my original is just flat leather with no padding at all, so even some padding would be an improvement and I LOVE the look of that collar.

Leia
 
Oh, yes, that is what they are supposed to be used for....gigs, thanks for reminding me, Leia! And since I haven't seen a real, well-scaled and balanced gig for a mini--least, not one with the true curved shafts and all...the gig saddle is not really a gig saddle, is it?
 
Thanks for all of the great input. Dr Pam just let me know that she had posted some pics on here.

We are in the process of trying lots of options and pricing. They will be available in our new catalog that comes out in October. Each harness will made per your specifications and sizing and will take 3-4 weeks. The harness with all of the patent is definetely a champagne taste and price - we are working out the other.

As far as our standard Carriage Harness - it now comes with a double buckle caveson but he will only make the sliding caveson because everyone uses the caveson different and there is no way to know where to sew the sides down. He suggests that you fit the caveson to your horse and then take it to a local leather maker and have a stitch put in - that way it will be perfect for your horse.

Keep the input coming - we are also going to add the option of buckle in traces on our carriage harness in the new catalog.

Thanks again - input really helps us !!!
 
The harness as pictured is looking quite nice-very comparable to, say, Smuckers!

The browband looks a bit odd to me; looks as if the blinder support is pushing it outward?? I definitely like the chain on the browband-have had several with it; it is SO much handsomer than dots, IMO! I do like a breast collar with at least a bit of a windpipe V; however, it IS a challenge, I believe, to configure it just right for a mini. I have a Smuckers Pleasure harness that has a simple, unpadded but reasonably wide, breast collar with an excellent configuration of the V-fine for everyday/show ring driving. I recently got a padded, deep V breast collar from the Carriage House for my B mare, and I LOVE it! The smaller the mini, though, the harder I think it would be to build such a breast collar to truly and well fit the horse. I would agree with Leia's idea of larger, and perhaps, slightly higher-placed, terret rings on the neckstrap, also.

As for the noseband/separate cavesson-I did have a very knowledgeable, national level, longtime mini trainer tell me that she'd had better luck with a horse that wanted to fuss with the bit(as one of mine was doing, even in the basic Myler), by using a separate cavesson. Sure enough, it did make a difference with THAT horse! However, for the most part, I have seen little to no difference in effect between one or the other. I,too, start my horses in an open bridle and NO noseband-have never had one I thought "needed" a noseband; when one is in use, it is adjusted so that one-two fingers(depending on whose fingers they are!!
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)can be slipped between the buckled noseband/cavesson and the horse's muzzle. I do think that the idea about a self noseband helping keep the cheekpieces of the bridle, and therefore, the blinders, from gapping away from the sides of the horse's head, might be most applicable to a (usually!)cheaper,lightweight, 'flabby' leather--OR, to a poorly fitted or unsuitable-to-that-horse bit--and is seldom much of an issue when everything fits well and comfortably--JMHO. I have to say-I have never had a problem with a separate cavesson having the cheekpieces/headstall slide forward?? A bit of 'shaping' helps, with the actual noseband being slightly wider where it centers on the front of the face. Perhaps a snugger fit, where it "slides" through the headstall?

My "everyday" harness-the first I ever bought, in '85, and still in quite regular use, is a Smuckers Lite, in russet(natural, undyed)leather--it has a self noseband, and a treeless harness saddle(I use a fleece harness pad), lightweight, straight breastcollar with only a single neckstrap--not what I want for serious, long distance or marathon-type driving, nowadays, but quite suitable for training/general daily use, because it is well-made and well-fitting. Being able to 'switch out' a deeper V'd and padded, buckle-in trace, breastcollar with a more basic V'd one sounds like a good idea, too. Also, I'd definitely be in favor of a wider, more well-padded harness saddle, with good wither clearance in the gullet. Like MiniHGal, I've NEVER seen a sliding tug holder on mini harness. Though it has its place, I don't see it as hugely important on most mini horse harness. Yes, it's most suitable with gigs/gig shafts-and there simple aren't many of those for minis. I, too, have read that they aren't suitable for some marathon vehicle setups? I believe they are only really suitable for a two wheeled vehicle, also-so wouldn't be desired with a 4 wheeler.

The tugs pictured are a basic open tug with a holddown strap, attached to the lower outside of the tug loop, which then buckles into an overgirth strap that is attached(usually, not permanently, and in a 'sliding' manner, as with wrap straps)to the girth itself. Tug stops(and, I believe, breeching) would definitely be needed with this type of tug loops; without breeching, you would really have NO 'brakes', except the tug stops--and they wouldn't really be much, though you might "get by" in the flat show ring(see more of post, below!)

Though it isn't pictured,I presume that this harness is to be offered with a breeching? I would surely suggest that being an option. Though most may want it as a show-only harness, it would be much more versatile in application if it could be ordered with a breeching-which can easily be removed for the breed show ring, but used for "real world", and/or ADS/ADS-type showing. Dr. Pam mentioned the placement of the breeching carrier straps as being crucial, and this is VERY true-another 'tricky' situation where proper proportion is VERY important!

One other thing-about Tilbury(French)tugs, which pull down snugly onto the shaft-like you might put the end of your belt back through the buckle and pull it tight, like a noose)-when I bought my first real 'show' harness(a Lutke), I was "instructed" to get Tilbury tugs, and I did; however, I never really LIKED the way they worked, but didn't know why. I recently learned that they are actually considered correct for a single pulling a FOUR wheeled vehicle--and when you think about it, it makes sense. If I were ordering show ring harness(for a single mini,to pull a cart)today, I would not order Tilbury or French tugs, but instead, either open tugs with holddown straps, or open tugs, with wrapstraps--AND breeching! If not using breeching, one could probably 'get by with' wrapstraps 'only',for a two wheeler, in the flat show ring, but tug stops would be a requisite, with breeching, if using the open tug loops and holddowns-and desirable with either configuration.(I don't believe it is really safe to use open tug loops with holddown straps without using breeching-one reason why people opt for Tilbury/French tugs, even though they really aren't proper for a single pulling a two wheeler. I think the conception may be that the Tilburys "look fancier" than wrap straps, and they are used , albeit improperly, for that reason.)

All in all, the harness looks like an excellent 'work in progress'--good job, Dr. Pam and Lisa of Ozark!!
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