miniature vs. shetland debate

[JMS Miniatures]

This whole debate miniature vs. shetland has been going on alot lately right here on this forum. Its a silly debate. For some reason those that have to defend the shetlands feel like they can poke jokes about tossing away shetland papers or dissing certain miniature horse people here on this forum, yes you can look at the post on the pony forum and its VERY RUDE. Saying we are the bad guys when your the ones trying to start it. Not saying we are innocent either BUT anytime there is a friendly discussion about the miniature horses and what we would like to improve turns into this miniature vs. shetland debate.

It has gone bad to the point where I don't even want to show or be part of AMHR anymore. How fun is it when you are getting made fun of. Yeah I know I'm just one person, who cares right. If AMHR/ASPC wants to continue to grow this needs to stop, and I'm not talking about stopping the AMHR/ASPC ponies, I'm talking about fighting amongst ourselves. Cause how are we suppose to move forward if we keep arguing about the same thing over and over again. Instead of fighting about it perhaps we can all work together and finding a positive solution.

 

[midnight star stables]

I don't understand how a mini holding ASPC paper is better then one without?

I mean I just don't understand. I own and love AMHR horses but I also love AMHR/ASPC and only ASPC horses. I don't understand the instant love or hate towards AMHR/ASPC horses.

I'm sorry you feel that you don't "fit". I show in a popular AMHR/ASPC area but I have never really felt out of place.

 

[MountainMeadows]

I believe that what you are talking about is "R E S P E C T" - from both sides and being afforded to both sides. The best way to earn RESPECT is to go out there and compete & WIN. If your horse is AMHR only and it WINS against an ASPC/AMHR loaded class, then I think that those ASPC/AMHR breeders should have enough decency to acknowledge the win by the AMHR only horse, embrace the win for the animal that it is, and move on. Same holds true for the AMHR/AMHA people who don't seem to appreciate the wins of the ASPC/AMHR horses -- folks a beautiful small equine deserves to be accorded RESPECT no matter what set of papers it holds.

I truly believe that as we march forward, that there will be more and more blending going on and ultimately folks will acknowledge the winning horse for just the fact that it won - NOT for what set of papers it holds -- at least I hope so!

I am all about blending in case you haven't figured it out yet!

Stacy

 

[JWC sr.]

I agree with you completely in that it is really silly. People get so jazzed up on either side of the debate it would be funny if it weren't so silly. It seems some folks try to tear apart each other and/or hurt each others feelings just for fun. I for one do not like mean spirited people or those that have no respect for the opinions of others, even if I disagree with those opinions.

Personally I keep what I like, I don't keep, breed or show what I don't like. This is still America where we are all free to do that.

Hopefully that remains one of the best things about this industry, versatility. Each to his own and each with the respect and dignity in the opinions they have about any given subject.

To agree to disagree is an okay thing and should not cause anyone to be chastised or picked on in any venue, much less one such as this forum where the passing of ideas and previous experience is so important for the flow of ideas and information.

My two cents worth, take that a two dollars and you MIGHT be able to buy a cup of coffee.

 

[txminipinto]

I don't know, I guess I'm confused. Not exactly sure which topic/post you are referring to regarding "jokes" about throwing shetland papers away. Any reference to that action is actually not a joke but fact that happened many years ago. As an ASPC breeder and an ASPC/AMHR trainer, I generally find those that are AMHR only are far more angry and disrespectful than the shetland breeders. But that's my own opinion and how I take some of the posts I've read.

As a shetland breeder (in fact, a breeder that strives to produces shetlands in the 42-46" range), I pay little attention to what the ASPC/AMHR and AMHR breeders are doing. As a trainer in both arenas I do look out for better horses for my clients to add to their programs. And many times those horses are ASPC/AMHR for the reasons I've stated a hundred times in previous topics.

I do what I like and I raise what I like. I prefer pintos but I'm not going to disrespect a solid horse of the same value just because I don't like solids (actually I do like solids but that's not the point). I like a nice horse be it ASPC or AMHR, but I realize that in our industry the ASPC/AMHR horse is highly valued and highly successful.

Life's short. Raise what you like, accept the punches in the ring as they fall (my pintos didn't fair as well as I thought they should at Congress compared to similar solid horses), and enjoy it for what it is.......a rich man's hobby.

 

[Jill]

I also couldn't figure out what topic you're talking about Jamie, or what members were rude to others? I totally missed it. What jumped out at me, though, is that if you're sick of a debate, why start it again?

 

[Miniv]

....a beautiful small equine deserves to be accorded RESPECT no matter what set of papers it holds.

I truly believe that as we march forward, that there will be more and more blending going on and ultimately folks will acknowledge the winning horse for just the fact that it won - NOT for what set of papers it holds -- at least I hope so!

I am all about blending in case you haven't figured it out yet!

Stacy

Stacy said it.......A QUALITY animal (who hopefully begets quality) will in the end earn RESPECT and in the end ADMIRATION. The registration should be secondary.

I also agree with Stacy in regard to BLENDING. Our shorter equine (ponies) obviously need to be blended just a bit more or there wouldn't be this squabbling!

 

[HGFarm]

Hey, I myself appreciate a nice horse, I dont care what the papers (if any) are! I am not sure either, what the big deal is with some folks. As to being 'better' -that is up to the individual horse and a judges opinion that day.

I still laugh about the folks that still dont want to admit there is any Shetland breeding to a Miniature at all, and act like they are aliens when it is even suggested to cross them.

Yep, dont take stuff personally, and let it roll off. Everyone has their own opinions.

 

[kaykay]

I was the one that made the comment on throwing away Shetland papers. It was said tongue in cheek to make a point NOT to be rude. If you took it as rudeness I apologize. It really was to make a very valid point. I would never throw away any of my ponies ASPC papers and I think everyone knows that.

I own AMHA/AMHR/ASPC/ horses and love them all equally.

I have said over and over that a horse having ASPC/AMHR doesnt make them better than any other horse. But it is what I prefer to own, show and breed.

I really think some are taking these discussions way too personally when they really arent meant in a personal way at all.

And I agree with Jill in that if a person is tired of these discussions why bring it up again? Just confusing to me.

Kay

 

[Minimor]

I'm afraid I don't quite understand the problem. You were one that was initially posting about wanting to have new divisions in AMHR, so that you wouldn't have to compete against the ASPC/AMHR ponies. Ever since then I have wondered how such a division would even work, simply because if a horse is required to have so many generations of AMHR parentage...many ASPC/AMHR do have those generations of AMHR parentage, in spite of the fact that they also have their ASPC papers. I also wondered why people couldn't just lose their ASPC papers and keep the AMHR ones--and then who is to say that they aren't straight AMHR horses? You'd be left with researching and protesting every horse you show against! I don't think anyone that suggested throwing away ASPC papers was being rude or disrespectful--they were simply considering one possibility that would circumvent the prejudice against ASPC/AMHR horses!

I for one see much more disrespect from the anti-ASPC people than I do from those that are pro-ASPC.

 

[ruffian]

Life's short. Raise what you like, accept the punches in the ring as they fall (my pintos didn't fair as well as I thought they should at Congress compared to similar solid horses), and enjoy it for what it is.......a rich man's hobby.

HAH - I TOTALLY DISAGREE -

It's a "poor Woman's Hobby" TOO!!!

 

[txminipinto]

HAH - I TOTALLY DISAGREE -

It's a "poor Woman's Hobby" TOO!!!

Ok, you're right........you know how you make a small fortune in the horse industry? Start with a large one! LOL!!

 

[Mellis815]

I agree with the whole respect thing, but remember, this forum is full of intelligent minds of those that have been in the business (amhr or aspc) for some time, so heated debates are going to take place. But yes, the rude comments...(something about getting big girl panties on??) probably should find a new home, because apparently they aren't welcome anymore. Other then that, I think the discussion that took place was just fine, we are horse people, we ALL stand our grounds for what we believe in and rightfully so!

 

[muffntuf]

I have thought long and hard for week after coming back from ASPC Congress. The threads have been talking about how heavy the influence of Shetlands are having on the miniature industry. I see it differently now - I think the miniatures have had a heavy influence on the Shetland industry. Seriously.

I breed and raise shetlands in the 42"-46". In my yearling futurity class (over) my pony was the second tallest - everything else looked like a miniature in conformation, just a tall miniature, not like a shetland.

Again in the yearling mare classes (over) it was full of tall miniatures.

And they were winning the top spots.

Okay - so I waited a week to think this over. Who has more influence over our registry right now? Shetlands influencing miniatures or miniatures influencing shetlands? I don't know but I was pretty surprised.....

So I have to make a decision - do I jump on the band wagon or do I raise what I like. Well for now, I like my shetland shetlands.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Muff Tuff, I believe you experienced what I am trying to express when I talk about "blending" - yes, there will be influences from both spectrums - all in the effort create a more beautiful individual - I truly believe you will see more and more of this "style" pervading the showring -- granted, at Congress the ponies were ASPC/AMHR - but the LOOK that was winning was heavily slanted toward a pony that had more of the AMHA/AMHR look to it - ie, small dished head, slender hooky neck, short back, flat croup, and yes, unbelieveable movement -- it is all good - it is called evolution ! !

 

[~Lisa~]

Jamie I do understand what you are saying and I know the previous topics you are talking about it seems to me I hear the same few people screaming do not divide and yet they seem to be stirring the pot any time the subject comes up. I found it almost funny how quickly that thread slanted to the horrible pony hating mini people on the fourm simply due to the fact a topic on ponies was moved to the pony forum.

You are not alone many people feel the way you do and I think it is sad.

Trace I agree in watching Congress and hearing how much refinement the Shetland brings to the AMHR horse I found it ironic that it appears the miniature tends to be more refined then a majority of Classics. Glad to see I was not the only one with that observation

The reality is no one is going to change anyones minds the threads can go on for 200 pages. Guess it is best for everyone(including myself I have been guilty more then once) if people just dont "bite" and let those threads die out sometimes I think some just want to bring it back and the us vs them despite their claims to hate it - I guess everyone likes to be "right" and sometimes we do not accept there is no way to convert everyone to either side. Sometimes we all need to accept it is ok to agree to disagree and leave it at that. And not allow the us -vs them debate to be debated over and over again with the same thing and "digs" thrown back and forth. What is really the point?? Other then perhaps trying to convert more to one side or the other by crying foul?

 

[muffntuf]

Well it just surprised me. I expected it to be in the under division, but in the over division??? I am beginning to wonder what will happen to all the wonderful shetlands that to me are true looking shetlands. Not as many as all the miniatures who are now considered not able to compete in halter because they just can't against what is in the arena now. But the shetland side???

It'll be interesting the next couple of years.

 

[MindyLee]

I hope this is'nt because of my topic I started BECAUSE it was'nt about minis vrs shetlands. I was just wondering if they have different body types like minis and wanted to learn more about the shetlands WHICH I learned a whole lot from that post.

I was'nt trying to start a fight or peeve any one off.

 

[Jill]

MindyLee, I don't think anyone is upset with you

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I hope this is'nt because of my topic I started BECAUSE it was'nt about minis vrs shetlands. I was just wondering if they have different body types like minis and wanted to learn more about the shetlands WHICH I learned a whole lot from that post.

I was'nt trying to start a fight or peeve any one off.

MindLee there is nothing wrong about learning something. I don't even think it was your post I can't remember.

It was a certain post on the pony forum that according to some we need to get out big girl panties on and we are just a bunch of sour grapes just because we do care about our miniatures. No body was dissing any shetland breeders, so saying something like that just makes it look bad on you.

I realize this is a public forum, I realize that we are all going to have disagreements about something, no body is going to agree with everything that happens, BUT, comments like these what good does it do to anyone? It just divides people more.

As far as throwing shetland papers away I took it as a joke cause everyone was laughing about it. I just took it as a insult. Yes makes you only a miniature horse there solves everything right.

This post wasn't meant to start anything. It showed that feelings were hurt and it does show how we are a registry AMHR/ASPC needs to come together. If no body can see that then they are blind. This post was not at all atended to show to me look at the good things AMHR/ASPC horse can contribuite.

I still want to be a part of AMHR but if we are going to be thrown into the gutter then I'll go somewhere else. It is just not fun anymore, but yet when I look at my horses thats what its all about enjoying your horse not the politics or the showing of it all. But yet also my horses can go and show some where else as well.