Miniature horse/Shetland Poll

[Sandee]

Shetlands with hackney bloodlines were allowed only because a long time ago, people were passing non-shetlands off as shetlands. The registry opened itself to ponies that were part-hackney for a time (registered as "B"or modern shetlands and in some ways like Appendix QHs) I assume this was to level the playing field for all breeders in the modern division. If Lewella is on, she could tell you much more about the history, but I don't want to hijack this thread with it. ASPC later closed its books. IMO, they should have initially handled these like Arabians or other pedigree-based breeds do and registered them as "half-breds", not as full shetlands. But that is water under the bridge now and a whole different discussion. But you "hardship" into a height or maybe a color registry, not to a breed registry, and the current rules do not allow registry if you can't proove ASPC parantage. That is what I was referring to. If a horse can proove ASPC/shetland parentage, I personally would have no problem with it.

Just for argument sake. How far back could that "parentage" be? I mean my 32" stallion has shetland AND Hackney when you go far enough back. So for the sake of argument He should be able to go ASPC. The only reason he isn't is the old story "papers were thrown away and a new registry was born!"

 

[~Lisa~]

Many people stated that great miniature horses such as Gold Melody Boy, Buckeroo, Rowdy are all shetlands. So If I had a miniature that is 50% GMB and 50% Rowdy, why couldn't he be hardshipped. Apparently it's already a shetland.

You know I did bring that up somewhat jokingly but I can tell you I have gotten more then a few emails all wondering the same thing....How can most minis be Shetlands in one sentance and then not Shetlands when it comes to bringing them into ASPC

Frankly doesnt matter to me I am pretty sure I would not double reigstry my minis ASPC

 

[Jacki Loomis]

I answered the poll questions and I understand it is just a poll, answer if you like and ignore if you don't. I think it is fun to see the opinions of others here on the forum.

The answers so far that I find most interesting are the ones related to DNA.

• Should AMHR DNA? Of the current respondents just over 70% percent indicated they favor some type of DNA requirements and only 29% indicated they do not.
• Should ASPC DNA? Of the current respondents just over 77% percent indicated they favor some type of DNA requirements and only 23% indicated they do not.

I know this is just a small sampling but I'm surprised by the level of support for some type of DNA requirements and somewhat surprised that so far the majority shares my opinion that we would benefit from a DNA requirement at a specific age or for a specific reason such as breeding.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]

 

[alphahorses]

Just for argument sake. How far back could that "parentage" be? I mean my 32" stallion has shetland AND Hackney when you go far enough back. So for the sake of argument He should be able to go ASPC. The only reason he isn't is the old story "papers were thrown away and a new registry was born!"

I agree with you Sandee - it is a shame then that he can't be registered. For those AMHR horses who's ancestors you can definitely trace back to 100% ASPC (be that sheltand or shetland cross), I would like to see them be registrable with ASPC. But that is just my opinion.

 

[OhHorsePee]

I see you have a mare by an ASPC/AMHR/AMHA stallion who I am pretty sure was hardshipped to AMHR. If so, your own mare would not be eligible for AMHR had hardshipping from ASPC not been allowed.

I also see that you have a lot of Gold Melody Boy breeding in your herd. Gold Melody Boy was a shetland. I guess I just don't understand why you are so against shetlands or hardshipping when your own herd is based on shetlands and when many of your own horses could not be registered with AMHR if hardshipping had not been allowed.

 

[stormy]

Again and I repeat no one is AGAINST Shetlands.

There is a Shetland registry, shetlands are beautiful as shetlands. Some miniature breeding programs have shetland in the background from when the registry was open, some from before there was an AMHR. Some also have POA, Arabian, Welsh, Connemara, Trottingbred, all kinds of background from when the registry was open.

All these breeds are beautiful, no one is against them either!

What has been developed from the blending of all these breeds over many years is the Miniature Horse. A unique individual unlike any of the breeds used to build its foundation. They are beautiful too and we want to keep them.

 

[sdmini]

I can not vote as my personal preference for hardshipping is not there, close it completely. I have no aversion to allowing out breeding, if you have a stallion or mare you can have the horse qualify for breeding purposes. That horse's offspring, as long as crossed with regular AMHR papered stock, would be eligible for regular papers and all the privileges.

Little would change from the way we operate now but it would end all this ridiculous breed or height registry debate.

 

[kaykay]

Kay I am just curious why can't a shetland be DNA'd?

No that is not what I am saying. I do believe ALL horses of AMHR AND ASPC should be DNA'd. But the question makes no sense because you cannot hardship ASPC.

Heres the question

Yes, but Only Hardshipped breeding horses must be DNA tested

This is under the ASPC section. Hardshipping onto ASPC is not allowed so its not a valid question!

Many people stated that great miniature horses such as Gold Melody Boy, Buckeroo, Rowdy are all shetlands. So If I had a miniature that is 50% GMB and 50% Rowdy, why couldn't he be hardshipped. Apparently it's already a shetland.

The reason you cant is because someone threw the papers out and unfortunately they are now gone (or they didnt register them). I dont believe Rowdy or Gold melody boy threw theirs out but some of the resulting foals were not registered except for AMHR.

That is not the fault of ASPC or me or anyone else.

But just looking at this poll with questions about "throwing out ASPC papers" you can see how it happened. I hope it never happens again because it was a huge dis service to the horses but it happened and all we can do now is move forward. Its sad that people all those years ago threw those papers out but they wanted to keep the mystique of the "miniature horse"

Kay

 

[Minimor]

Why on earth would the Mini people ever want to hardship their AMHR horses into ASPC anyway? Gads, you're all complaining now that Shetlands are taking over the Minis, and it's not fair because the straight AMHR horses cannot compete with the ASPC/AMHR horses---so if your straight Minis don't have a fair chance against Shetland-Minis in AMHR, what would be the point of putting them into ASPC if you could?

Ruffian, two Shetland stallions in a 4 generation pedigree doesn't make a Shetland? That's quite a stretch! Now, if you can prove that every horse on the back line of that pedigree had registered ASPC parents, that would be a little different. But, as soon as that pedigree traces to one horse that was hardshipped into AMHR and truly has unknown parentage, there you have the difference between Shetland and AMHR. Does your Mini have any appaloosa coloring or heritage? There goes the full Shetland theory for that horse. Being "mostly Shetland" doesn't equal purebred Shetland.

I don't recall anyone saying that Minis are all shetland and nothing but shetland...founded on Shetlands and mostly Shetland yes, but not all and nothing but.

 

[ruffian]

I see you have a mare by an ASPC/AMHR/AMHA stallion who I am pretty sure was hardshipped to AMHR. If so, your own mare would not be eligible for AMHR had hardshipping from ASPC not been allowed.

I also see that you have a lot of Gold Melody Boy breeding in your herd. Gold Melody Boy was a shetland. I guess I just don't understand why you are so against shetlands or hardshipping when your own herd is based on shetlands and when many of your own horses could not be registered with AMHR if hardshipping had not been allowed.

Yes I do. She is AMHA/AMHR. I also have lots of GMB and Buckeroo.

I WILL REPEAT AGAIN --- I AM NOT AGAINST SHETLANDS!!! Why if anybody asks a question about Shetlands being registered as miniatures they are automatically SHETLAND PHOBIC?

I guess I'm done. Can't even ask a question. Sorry folks if ONCE AGAIN I have offended anybody.

 

[Humhill]

Nevermind. Saw someone else's post and realized mine didn't make sense. Sorry!!

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

I also agree with Carin. Shetlands are a breed. Minis are not. Period.

if miniature horses arent a breed then what are they? dwarf ponies?

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Miniatures have never been or currently not a recognized breed. They are just a small horse that happens to be under 38".

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Ruffian

Its been stated over and over you cannot hardship an AMHR horse ASPC. So why even make that a poll question? It simply could never happen.

And why would any reasonable person throw out ASPC papers to register AMHR? Just ridiculous. When I put pinto papers on my horses they dont ask me to throw out the AMHR or ASPC papers. Why is there no option for making AMHA papers void if you hardship?

Should an ASPC hardshipped horse be DNA'd. Again its not possible so not a real question.

I could go on and on but its such an obviously a biased poll and so many of the questions dont make sense.

Now there is a thread thinking that AMHR is closed to AMHA hard shipping ughh. Someday that may happen but that day is not here yet.

its just a poll based on peoples opinions and what we might like to see in the near future so could you chill out a little? jeez!

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Miniatures have never been or currently not a recognized breed. They are just a small horse that happens to be under 38".

then why are the registry's for them called American Miniature Horse Association/American Miniature Horse Registry? not being sarcastic or anything just curious

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Like the Pinto Horse Association, or the other color registeries. The 2 registeries are a collection of horses based on height and yes also bloodlines. As someone pointed out thats what makes the 2 different then color registeries. They both need to stop looking at it like a height registry and more so based as a breed/bloodlines. Take a look at the post breed vs. registry. That may help you out better with your question.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Like the Pinto Horse Association, or the other color registeries. The 2 registeries are a collection of horses based on height and yes also bloodlines. As someone pointed out thats what makes the 2 different then color registeries. They both need to stop looking at it like a height registry and more so based as a breed/bloodlines. Take a look at the post breed vs. registry. That may help you out better with your question.

k thanks. i wonder who called them miniatures anyway. they couldve easily just been called dwarf ponies or midgit horses so why miniature horses?.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

They used to call them midgit horses but found the term miniature horses much better, and I find it so to

 

[kaykay]

its just a poll based on peoples opinions and what we might like to see in the near future so could you chill out a little? jeez!

Molly

I have not ever posted on your past controversial posts but I have read them. Before you decide to take me to task you need to educate yourself on ASPC/AMHR. Especially if you are going to be breeding. The American Miniature Horse Registry or AMHR is a registry for miniature horses 38" and under. It is not a "breed" it is a height registry.

Hopefully someday it will be a "breed" but that day is not here yet.

You may want to do some reading on the history of the association etc and then you will understand why I posted what I did. The information is out there for those who want to educate themselves.

The ASPC questions in the poll are not legitimate options. IMO it wrongly gives the impression that these are real options when they are not.

To each their own but just as the OP has a right to post their opinion so do I.

Kay