McCain & Obama

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What a stark contrast McCain's service to our country and patriotism are to Obama's 20 years of with the racist, anti-American Rev. Jeremiah Wright as is personal spiritual and moral leader, and his friendship with former terrorist William Ayers. Obama's unwillingness to demonstrate respect for our flag. Obama's lack of pride for our Country...
McCain is what - 25 years older than Obama? He thus has had far more years of "service".

There was no disrespect for the flag - even the GOP knows that and has dropped it. I would provide the usual links to factcheck.org or snopes to PROVE that but I think that is a waste of time as some simply will not read them. They only want to know their truth about some issues - not necessarily the truth - but that is normal for many in this political sparring..
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Both McCain and Obama have flip-flopped on issues... and with McCain caught out about his lobbyist and Fannie Mae connections - I guess many will just ignore it.

You shouldn't.

When Bill Ayers was with the Underground as a radical - Obama was a child - so I doubt that he was in there helping out. And decades later - if they were working towards the same goals in the community - "guilt by association" is nonsense. Is McCain guilty by association with a long list of people who might have done things in the past? No. The Ayers thing has been gone over ad nauseum for months - and now it is front and center again as it seems to be the pet project of one columnist... whatever. If some of McCain's connections throughout the past were examined with that same degree of scrutiny - I am sure that there would be issues there as well.

Rev. Wright. You know - I sat in chirch for 20 years and never became the person that minister thought I should be. Was Obama out there stumping for Rev. Wright? Never. Rhetoric does not a belief sytem make... but Rev. Wright has proven to be a lot more about grandstanding than spiritual issues. Have we ever heard Obama spout the same kind of nonsense that Rev. Wright resorted to in some of his over the top sermons? No. Nor would we. But Wright was likely not the best choice to note as being a spiritual advisor due to his affection for bombastic, incendiary rhetoric... so yeah - Obama shoud have disavowed him long ago IMO...

Fingers need to point BOTH ways... and that is what grieves me about the whole election process. Some get upset about Palin being trashed - and yet found it perfectly acceptable to treat Hillary the same - or worse.

Everything Obama/McCain says is perfect - and everything Obama/McCain says must be wrong or proof of something evil. It goes both ways.

For instance - OF COURSE whoever the next President is will have a tax increase... the huge deficit that the past 8 years has thrown us into needs to be dealt with... and yet I am sure that will be held up as an example of some politican's lies. That is a no-win situation for whoever inherits this mess... as is thw war in Iraq. No matter what they do - it will be seen as the wrong choice.

Politics needs to be more like Centered Riding. You need to look at things with "soft eyes" ... noting everything in the area that could be problematical or that you need to be aware of, taking it in and processing it... instead of "hard eyes".. only looking straight ahead and being unaware of what is happening in your surroundings and how such events may affect you.

Simplistic views, amybe - but what would be a refreshing change it would be if we examined all the issues and candidates with the same degree of intensity... and no one got a free pass or had things overlooked...

So I guess I am kind of like factcheck.org... and feel everyone should be scrutinized - by all of us. From all sides of every issue.

Np email fables... no rhetoric.... no partisan stretching of the facts... and commercials that stick to issues an solutions instead of personal attacks.

Yeah - I know I'm a dreamer...
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John NcCain is right - even if it is a bit of showboating (DUH! - and yes I would say the same thing if Obama had said it first) - they should call off Friday's debate and get back to Washington to like.... do their jobs... in the face of the economic bailout.
GASP!!! How DARE you try to be rational, Tagalong!
 
You can be as flippant as you want, there seems to be a theme of that kind of behaviour in many threads here. I am just going to hope that the majority of Americans are looking at the issues and finding out what each side has to offer in order to make a non-biased INFORMED decision instead of wasting their time on the most trivial and ridiculous things. And I certainly hope that your election goes a certain way for you, that who you want to be elected does in fact become President because if he doesn't your comments in here are going to look pretty pathetic.

You know what I wish? I wish Obama lived in Canada and was running in their election. I really wonder how many people would be voting for him if he was pushed off on them. Oh I know a couple very opinionated ones who would.
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Me too, Bonnie!!! See how much they like him up close and personal
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That's a great article Southern Hart! I especially liked reading this paragraph:

Ayers' wife, Dohrn, also has served on panels with Obama. Dohrn was once on the FBI's Top 10 Most Wanted List and was described by J. Edgar Hoover as the "most dangerous woman in America." Ayers and Dohrn raised the son of Weathermen terrorist Kathy Boudin, who was serving a sentence for participating in a 1981 murder and robbery that left four people dead.
How can anyone overlook the obvious?
 
The "obvious" is that when Dohrn and Ayers were activists - Obama was a child. He had no part in that. The guilt by association thing starts sounding pretty tenuous and desperate to me... when you can serve on committees and panels and/or work with someone who has a past or specific views - and instantly that person's opinions and past are determined to be part of what you are. Are you guilty of whatever your coworkers or friends may have done - and do you share the same beliefs?

It works both ways - as I said earlier. Tenuous "connections" are everywhere. But I guess some only want to see things from one side... and nothing else. Whatever.
 
No.. Obama is connected to Ayers now. He has even taken money from him for his campaign! Oh Well..... Beleive what you want....
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An electorate that doesn't pay attention to the choosing of its leaders will end up being led in unexpected ways.
 
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The "obvious" is that when Dohrn and Ayers were activists - Obama was a child. He had no part in that. The guilt by association thing starts sounding pretty tenuous and desperate to me... when you can serve on committees and panels and/or work with someone who has a past or specific views - and instantly that person's opinions and past are determined to be part of what you are. Are you guilty of whatever your coworkers or friends may have done - and do you share the same beliefs?
It works both ways - as I said earlier. Tenuous "connections" are everywhere. But I guess some only want to see things from one side... and nothing else. Whatever.
The partnership between Ayers and Obama is about much more than the number of occasions on which the two were recorded together in the same room. As CAC board chair, Obama was essentially authorizing the funding of Ayers’s own educational projects, and the projects of Ayers’s radical allies. And especially in CAC’s first year, Ayers was largely in charge of the process. One of CAC’s own evaluations notes that during 1995, CAC was a “Founder-Led Foundation.” That is, Ayers was not merely an ex officio board member that year, but as the key founder and guiding spirit of CAC, he was effectively running the show.
 
Also, former terrorist Bill Ayers, and his wife, hosted a meet-and-greet party -- at their home -- for Obama in 1995. He wasn't a kid then. Just someone with close ties to people who are shady and disturbing... former terrorists (William Ayers)... anti-American racist reverends (Jeremiah Wright)... community organizations that were in the business of voter fraud (Acorn)... Come on people! THINK!!! You shouldn't have to "explain away" these things about someone you would elect President of the United States. And, that's not even touching on his total lack of ability and the experience required to lead our Nation.
 
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The "obvious" is that when Dohrn and Ayers were activists - Obama was a child. He had no part in that. The guilt by association thing starts sounding pretty tenuous and desperate to me... when you can serve on committees and panels and/or work with someone who has a past or specific views - and instantly that person's opinions and past are determined to be part of what you are. Are you guilty of whatever your coworkers or friends may have done - and do you share the same beliefs?
Isn't that the truth.I think people on both sides can agree we might be mortified if someone assumed that us being here in LB meant we have the same opinions as others on the board or that their past actions of all members are a direct reflection of us. I know I would be!
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Irans President gave his Anti- America speech in NY to UN. Three hours later he was on CNN/ Larry King.

Remember Obama comment: Iran is a little country and NO danger for USA

Yesterday, folks in NY gave a reception for Iran's President in Hyatt Hotel NY. Guess who was the host? Obama supporter from Chicago who gave millions to Obama for his election and before as Ill Senator, she was also a Hollywood sponsor a few days ago. Her name is Pfitzner or like that, a German or Polish name. She is the owner of Hyatt Hotels
 
You know what I wish? I wish Obama lived in Canada and was running in their election
GASP. Now that is a nasty wish! You can keep him, just because a couple on here like him so well, doesn't mean we all like him.
 
The "obvious" is that when Dohrn and Ayers were activists - Obama was a child. He had no part in that. The guilt by association thing starts sounding pretty tenuous and desperate to me



Tag, they were terrorists. Obama lied about his connections by saying he didn't know them then it came out he served on a board with them. He was in their home. I do wish I could understand how some people see them as an activist only when they hurt so many people. And that it was ok that he lied about it. Could you please help me understand your point of view?

 
You know what I wish? I wish Obama lived in Canada and was running in their election
GASP. Now that is a nasty wish! You can keep him, just because a couple on here like him so well, doesn't mean we all like him.
He is a heck of alot better than what we have to chose from in Canada at the moment. I won't comment more than that or I can't BUT I work for the Canadian government and I see exactly what has been going on with this last Prime Minister
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. Heaven help us if we bring in a majority is all I can say. Just remember I said that.
 
Irans President gave his Anti- America speech in NY to UN. Three hours later he was on CNN/ Larry King. Remember Obama comment: Iran is a little country and NO danger for USA

Yesterday, folks in NY gave a reception for Iran's President in Hyatt Hotel NY. Guess who was the host? Obama supporter from Chicago who gave millions to Obama for his election and before as Ill Senator, she was also a Hollywood sponsor a few days ago. Her name is Pfitzner or like that, a German or Polish name. She is the owner of Hyatt Hotels
Iran president slams U.S.

LUCAS JACKSON/REUTERS

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad addresses the United Nations Sept. 23, 2008, giving a speech with a rambling theme of God, justice and morality. Email story

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Ahmadinejad ridicules Bush with a thumbs-down, then rails against Israel in speech at UN meeting

Sep 24, 2008 04:30 AM

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Olivia Ward

Foreign Affairs Reporter

Taking a high moral tone, Iran's gadfly president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ridiculed the United States as a spent force in a speech to the United Nations yesterday, railing against Israel, and insisting that his country's disputed nuclear program was purely peaceful.

Ahmadinejad, whose visit to New York was marked by angry demonstrations, appeared calm and relaxed, wearing a grey tailored suit and a stylishly trimmed beard as he faced his critics across the podium.

Earlier in the day, he shrugged off a speech by U.S. President George W. Bush – who had named Iran as a supporter of terrorism – while turning a visible thumbs-down at the American leader, whose final UN exit lines were overshadowed by America's financial crisis.

"The American empire in the world is reaching the end of the road," Ahmadinejad told the General Assembly. "And its next rulers must limit their interference to their own borders."

Ahmadinejad's speech, with a rambling theme of God, justice and morality, stressed Iran's peaceful nature and love of "creativity, mercy, kindness, wisdom."

But he broke into a bitter condemnation of Israel similar to speeches made in the past: "Today the Zionist regime is on a definite slope to collapse and there is no way for it to get out of the cesspool created by itself and its supporters."

And he said, he would submit a "peace plan" to the UN Secretary General to solve the problems of the Palestinians. It would include "a free referendum under the supervision of international organizations," allowing them to decide on the type of government they want. Ahmadinejad dismissed the American occupation of Iraq as a failure. But he also aimed ridicule at Canada and other NATO countries in Afghanistan.

"NATO troops in Afghanistan are an expanding presence," he told reporters after his speech. "Ever since they arrived, illicit drug production and extremism have increased."

"Even if they increased military forces they wouldn't succeed," he added. "They are going into a well with their heads down. I feel sorry for them."

Although a confrontation looms over Iran's uranium enrichment program, which Western countries believe may lead to the production of nuclear weapons, Ahmadinejad smiled at suggestions that it was anything but peaceful.

Answering accusations by the U.S. and the UN's atomic energy watchdog that Iran was holding back on vital information on its nuclear program, he retorted that "as far as we are concerned it is resolved. The rest is propaganda."

Foreign ministers for six nations negotiating on Iran's nuclear program were scheduled to meet tomorrow. But Russia, one of the six, said that the week of speeches by world leaders at the UN was too packed "to make us toss everything else aside and urgently meet to discuss the Iranian nuclear issue."

Iran has benefited from the tensions between Russia and the U.S. over Moscow's invasion of Georgia last month – as well as Washington's economically weakened state and the end of Bush's term in power.

Russia said it opposed new sanctions against Iran for failing to accept a deal to halt its enrichment program in exchange for economic and energy aid. But it called on Tehran to co-operate with the International Atomic Energy Agency, a statement echoed by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in a speech earlier in the day.

During his UN appearance, Ahmadinejad repeatedly denied Iran was in a race for a nuclear bomb.

"A few bullying powers have sought to put hurdles in the way of the peaceful nuclear activities of the Iranian nation by exerting political and economic pressures against Iran, and also through threatening and pressuring the IAEA," he said in his speech.

And he told reporters: "People who seek the use of nuclear weapons are backward. The time for the atomic bomb has come to an end. Whoever seeks it will lose in that pursuit."

But he warned threats against Iran would be disastrous, saying, "If there is a hand raised against our nation ... it would be cut immediately."

Responding to accusations of supporting terrorism, Ahmadinejad took a more tranquil tone, saying that "anyone who is ready to fight terrorism will find the Iranian people their partner."

Since Ahmadinejad made his first visit to the UN, he has become more confident and relaxed, chatting amiably with reporters and seemingly at home at the podium. In an earlier appearance in New York, he had brusque exchanges with the media and appeared tense and ill at ease.

"We seek relations based on justice and mutual respect," he told reporters yesterday. "Force is not a relationship, but an imposition."

And he said, the door was not closed to dialogue on Iran's nuclear program. "We are in favour of dialogue and talks, but we will not accept the language of force."

With files from the Star's wire services
 
removed (sorry this for some reason ended up in this thread and not the one I thought I was putting it under)
 
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I think their is a bit more of this "anti-american" speech - I think it started with the below...

UNITED NATIONS -- Iran's leader flashed a thumbs-down Tuesday as U.S. President George W. Bush denounced Tehran as a sponsor of global terrorism in his farewell address to the U.N.

AP

President Bush, sits in the chair reserved for heads of state before addressing the U.N. General Assembly Tuesday, Sept. 23 2008. Then Bush got less than 10 seconds of polite applause at the end of a speech in which he urged world leaders to take "an unequivocal moral stand" against suicide bombings, hostage taking and other terror tactics.

It was a decidedly low-key appearance, rehashing familiar themes, devoid of the passion Bush displayed in the early years of his presidency when he summoned the world after Sept. 11, 2001, to a battle against terrorism and tried -- but failed -- to win U.N. backing for the war in Iraq.

The president, humbled by economic turmoil that has darkened the final days of his presidency, also tried to speak reassuringly to the leaders about the financial upheaval on Wall Street that has forced him to set aside core principles of capitalism and authorize government takeovers of failing companies.

"I can assure you that my administration and our Congress are working together to quickly pass legislation approving this strategy," Bush told the General Assembly. "And I'm confident we will act in the urgent time frame required." Bush scrapped a planned political trip to Florida on Wednesday to return directly to Washington.

Bush's 22-minute address in the packed, 2,000-seat hall was mostly a restatement of his previous condemnations of terror, calls to advance democracy and criticism of the United Nations for "inefficiency and corruption" and "bloated bureaucracies." Still, Bush said the U.N. and other multinational organizations are now "needed more urgently than ever" to combat terrorists and extremists who are threatening world order.

With only 119 days remaining in his presidency, Bush found his usually busy schedule of one-on-one meetings with other world leaders had dwindled to a bare minimum. He talked with Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari, about Saturday's truck bombing in Islamabad and held a last-minute meeting with Uganda's leader, Yoweri Museveni. Peace talks have faltered between Uganda and the Lord's Resistance Army, which has been waging one of Africa's longest and most brutal rebellions.

Bush also met on Governors Island with a political dissidents from a dozen countries, from China to Cuba, and attended a USAID conference on food security.

At the General Assembly, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sat in the massive hall and seemed intent on showing disinterest as Bush spoke. He waved to the people in the galleries along the side and flashed a broad smile. Turning to an aide as Bush spoke, Ahmadinejad made a fist and turned his thumb down to the desk.

The Iranian leader has defied demands from the United States and other powers to halt a suspected nuclear weapons program. Ahmadinejad has vowed that Iran's military will "break the hand" of anyone targeting the country's nuclear facilities. In a series of interviews, Ahmadinejad blamed U.S. military interventions around the world in part for the collapse of global financial markets.

Bush said regimes like Syria and Iran continue to sponsor terror but that "their numbers are growing fewer, and they're growing more isolated from the world."

But he warned: "As the 21st century unfolds, some may be tempted to assume that the threat has receded. This would be comforting. It would be wrong. The terrorists believe time is on their side, so they've made waiting out civilized nations part of their strategy. We must not allow them to succeed."

Bush said the international community must stand firm against the nuclear ambitions of North Korea and Iran. He said that despite past disagreements over the U.S.-led war in Iraq, members of the U.N. must unite to help the struggling democracy succeed. And he scolded Russia for invading neighboring Georgia, calling it a violation of the U.N. charter.

"The United Nations' charter sets forth the equal rights of nations large and small," he said. "Russia's invasion of Georgia was a violation of those words."

Bush called on the U.N. to focus more on results and aggressively rally behind young democracies like Georgia, Ukraine, Lebanon, Afghanistan and Liberia.

He said that instead of issuing statements and resolutions after terrorist attacks, the U.N. and such organizations must work closely to prevent violence. Every nation has responsibilities to prevent its territory from being used for terrorist, drug trafficking and nuclear proliferation, he said.

In the meeting with Pakistan's president, Bush and Zardari discussed the weekend bombing of the Marriott hotel in Islamabad that killed 53 people and U.S. military incursions into Pakistan targeting militants using remote areas of the Muslim nation to launch attacks in neighboring Afghanistan and elsewhere.

"Your words have been very strong about Pakistan's sovereign right and sovereign duty to protect your country, and the United States wants to help," Bush said about the incursions, which have caused a rift in U.S.-Pakistan relations.

On Tuesday evening, Bush was to co-host an Iraq coalition meeting with President Jalal Talabani of Iraq, consisting of those countries who participated in the coalition on the ground in Iraq. The coalition is shrinking from about 30 countries to a handful in the next 90 days or so. Iraq is drafting bilateral agreements with the U.S. and other countries to replace a U.N. mandate authorizing their presence expires at year-end.

"A lot of people around the world have made sacrifices along with the Iraqi people that enabled a country to emerge from the shadows of tyranny," Bush told representatives of the nation during the meeting. "I want to thank those around the table for showing courage and vision and resolve."

Talabani and Zardari were among foreign leaders slated to meet on Wednesday with Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee.

After Bush spoke, Iran's president told the U.N. General Assembly on Tuesday that "the American empire" is nearing collapse and should end its military involvement in other countries.

Ahmadinejad said terrorism is spreading quickly in Afghanistan while "the occupiers" are still in Iraq nearly six years after Saddam Hussein was ousted from power in Iraq.

"American empire in the world is reaching the end of its road, and its next rulers must limit their interference to their own borders," Ahmadinejad said.

He accused the U.S. of starting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to win votes in elections and blamed a "few bullying powers" for trying to undermine Iran's nuclear program.

Ahmadinejad's hardline rhetoric came as no surprise and offered little in the way of compromise at the U.N., where he faces a new round of sanctions if no agreement is reached on limiting Iran's nuclear capabilities.

While he reiterated that the country's nuclear program is purely peaceful, the U.S. and others fear it is aimed at producing enriched uranium to make nuclear weapons.

Iran already is under three sets of sanctions by the U.N. Security Council for refusing to suspend uranium enrichment. Washington and its Western allies are pushing for quick passage of a fourth set of sanctions to underline the international community's resolve, but are likely to face opposition from Russia.

"A few bullying powers have sought to put hurdles in the way of the peaceful nuclear activities of the Iranian nation by exerting political and economic pressures against Iran," he said.

Ahmadinejad also lashed out at Israel on Tuesday, saying "the Zionist regime is on a definite slope to collapse, and there is no way for it to get out of the cesspool created by itself and its supporters."

The Iranian president is feared and reviled in Israel because of his repeated calls to wipe the Jewish state off the map, and his aggressive pursuit of nuclear technology has only fueled Israel's fears.

Ahmadinejad accused "a small but deceitful number of people called Zionists ... (of) dominating an important portion of the financial and monetary centers as well as the political decision-making centers of some European countries and the U.S."

Israeli President Shimon Peres reacted angrily to Ahjmadinejad's criticism. "It is again a repetition of the darkest accusations in the name of Hitler and almost anti-Semitism," Peres later told journalists.

In discussing the U.S. war in Iraq, Ahmadinejad said, "Millions have been killed or displaced, and the occupiers, without a sense of shame, are still seeking to solidify their position in the ... region and to dominate oil resources."

He suggested that the presence of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan has contributed to a sharp rise in terrorism and a huge increase in the production of narcotics.

He predicted that the alliance would not be successful.

"Throughout history every force that has entered Afghanistan has left in defeat," Ahmadinejad said.

His speech came just hours after President George W. Bush made his eighth and final appearance before the U.N. General Assembly, urging the international community to stand firm against the nuclear ambitions of Iran and North Korea.
 
I am displeased that Obama faked ignorance about Ayers. I agree that there's no way he didn't know. I still think the point is moot, though. Obama has never been tied to illegal activity, period. He hasn't DONE anything, IMO, to warrant all this worry.

McCain, though...McCain is one of the Keating 5, where he was investigated and chastised for his 'poor judgement'. In case anyone forgot what he did to earn his place in the Keating 5.... http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-...,1039504.column

"Once upon a time, a politician took campaign contributions and favors from a friendly constituent who happened to run a savings and loan association. The contributions were generous: They came to about $200,000 in today's dollars, and on top of that there were several free vacations for the politician and his family, along with private jet trips and other perks. The politician voted repeatedly against congressional efforts to tighten regulation of S&Ls, and in 1987, when he learned that his constituent's S&L was the target of a federal investigation, he met with regulators in an effort to get them to back off.

That politician was John McCain, and his generous friend was Charles Keating, head of Lincoln Savings & Loan. While he was courting McCain and other senators and urging them to oppose tougher regulation of S&Ls, Keating was also investing his depositors' federally insured savings in risky ventures. When those lost money, Keating tried to hide the losses from regulators by inducing his customers to switch from insured accounts to uninsured (and worthless) bonds issued by Lincoln's near-bankrupt parent company. In 1989, it went belly up -- and more than 20,000 Lincoln customers saw their savings vanish.

Keating went to prison, and McCain's Senate career almost ended. Together with the rest of the so-called Keating Five -- Sens. Alan Cranston (D-Calif.), John Glenn (D-Ohio), Don Riegle (D-Mich.) and Dennis DeConcini (D-Ariz.), all of whom had also accepted large donations from Keating and intervened on his behalf -- McCain was investigated by the Senate Ethics Committee and ultimately reprimanded for "poor judgment."

But the savings and loan crisis mushroomed. Eventually, the government spent about $125 billion in taxpayer dollars to bail out hundreds of failed S&Ls that, like Keating's, fell victim to a combination of private-sector greed and the "poor judgment" of politicians like McCain."

And ONCE AGAIN McCain been tied to one of these failed loan companies in a not-so-great way. I know I've talked about his campaign manager, Davis, as a shareholder in the company. Turns out he's not just a shareholder. Reports today say that continued to be both TREASURER and CORPORATE DIRECTOR of his lobbying firm for at least a part of this year.

So we have evidence of something iffy McCain did in his past. Not conjecture, not iffy people around him-but something he DID. And now we have evidence of something just as iffy going on at this moment.

That's far more concerning to me.
 
Lowrise. I can't even read and keep up with your posts but think about this. If McCain has done so many bad things, according to you, in 26 years (All government people are guilty of wrongdoing at one time or another) (In fact anyone alive is) (We all are) (Except maybe you) (you appear to be perfect in your eyes) JUST THINK how much Obama would do in 26 years. Hes only just started. Not even a full term as senator yet and almost 2 years on the campaign trail and much of his past doings are following him already. And they are a lot of ugly ones that have been proven. And don't ask me what, like you don't know, because you know very well what is being said about him. You just choose to not see it. I know California is a Democratic state but you are almost to the point of being out of control with yourself. Better settle down a little. Bad for your blood pressure.
 

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