Little bit of interesting trivia for longtime horsepeople...

[Margo_C-T]

Reading FHOTD this AM; topic was about 'how did we get here from there', reference was to the appearance of predecessors--both QH and TB--of today's horses. Interesting photo(one I'd not seen before) of 'Old Sorrel', the King Ranch's foundation sire, with commentary about why these early horses might not, at first glance, "seem" to measure up, conformation-wise, to today's members of the breed. She thought it was a lot about 'fitting' practices of today---well, maybe to a point, but IMO, lots of today's so-called 'horsemen' aren't really familiar with what constitutes truly correct conformation! Too many don't know how to look beyond the VERY obvious and most 'general' aspects; often simply do not recognize the many 'finer' points. JMHO....

Anyway, in the course of this treatise, she refers to the 'AllBreed Pedigree' site....so, I went there to refresh my memory of "Moon Deck", a horse she speaks highly of, conformationally--and to view his pedigree. You can also seek out photos of many of a particular horse's progenitors, so I viewed the 'gallery'. It was VERY interesting; there is even a photo of 'Bend Or'--remember the occasional mention on these forums of 'bend Or' spots? Well, HE is who the term originated with! Fuzzy photo, but I do believe I could see some oth the famed 'spots' from which the term originated!

Also...I was able to view photos of several horses I'd never seen pics of before! As a teenager, I bought a 'grade' QH mare, who, upon my research, turned out to have quite a nice pedigree. I was told by one of the early 'experts' in QH( a gentleman named Jim Harkey, who was even featured in a prominent article in the QH Journal of the time, and who I'd been told was dead, but instead, was quite elderly, but still 'bright-eyed and bushy-tailed', and living in Monahans, TX--where I was able to visit and talk directly to him, thanks to my ever-understanding mother, who took time off from work to drive me there(I did not yet have a driver's license at the time!)---that my mare, whom I named "LUZ BENEDICT", after a character in the movie "Giant", was in truth, a half-sister to the famed QH racing mare, "Shu Fly". Their true sire's pedigree went straight and fairly closely, back to the dam of Man O War, a mare named Mahubah...and lo and behold, there is a picture of her in the aforementioned gallery, along with other names I recognize from my pedigree research, done now over 50 years ago.

Well, NOW I have to look in the trunk for that pedigree research, because I typed in the QH filly I bred and raised from Luz, named "Misty Question", and even though she was a foal of 1957, she IS in the database,BUT, with incorrect information on the dam, my mare Luz! It says she is sired by "Hanover", the local area sire and match race horse I indeed have a picture of, but gives a TOTALLY fabricated pedigree for 'Hanover'--including that 'Hanover's' parents were foaled AFTER my mare, who would be those horse's grandget, was foaled--by about 12-15 years!

This is the kind of 'misinformation' that really 'gets me going'--now I HAVE TO find my pedigree research results, and when I do, I'll be going online to Allbreed Pedigree to do some corrections. After all, I was THERE; I LIVED it, and I know what really was the case!

Margo

 

[crponies]

It sounds like you're having lots of fun, Margo. You set 'em straight!

 

[Margo_C-T]

LOL! crponies, yes, I AM 'having fun'...I really support honesty and correctness, and can become very 'focused' on such things!!

I don't have time today to rummage through the trunk; have to be gone over the weekend, and much to do to have things 'set up' for my daughter who will house/horse/dog 'sit'...but recently, while searching for high school momentos(50th High School reunion coming up, looking forward to going, as I've only been to two of the previous ones), I found the professional photo of the filly I referred to, that I bred in '57, from an AQHA show in Roswell--so am pretty sure the other 'stuff' is somewhere there, also! When I find it--well, look out, AllBreed Pedigree!

Margo

 

[Pepipony]

YOU GO GIRL!!

I know what you mean about how people view horses now. I had a Foundation gelding, he was, umm, handsome LOL You dont see his type around anymore. Anyhow, he won a few Halter championships ( Open or local breed shows, nothing major) and it always ticked off people when he did. They didnt see why. He wasnt pretty, he was just correct. Gosh I miss that horse. He was a true one in a million.

 

[Marty]

WOW! That is super good stuff.

Does anyone remember when a good quarter horse was 14.3 and short and built like a bulldozer and could do anything? That's before they all turned into looking like race horses.

How about when you only had ONE horse that would do it all??????

My very first show mare.....we'd begin our show with halter mares, then showmanship, then do all our western pleasure and horsemanship classes.......LUNCH BREAK then tack up for our english classes on the flat and hit a couple of jumps. Sometimes a little bit of speed events. She also did parades, & trail riding, and loved to go swimming in the lake. Amazingly, we did very well in everything and she lived to be in her 20's and that was considered longevity back then.

Then someone invented that you need just one horse for halter, another horse for western riding, a different mount for english and of course, another for speed events. Boggles the mind. That's my trivia for the day

 

[mininik]

Does anyone remember when a good quarter horse was 14.3 and short and built like a bulldozer and could do anything? That's before they all turned into looking like race horses.

They didn't ALL turn into Thoroughbreds, silly. Some turned into beef cattle!

 

[Magic]

Please tell me that the picture is a caracature (sp?) and not a real horse!

 

[mininik]

That was a real horse + Photoshop, but not too far off the mark when compared to some horses.

 

[Bunnylady]

Does anyone remember when a good quarter horse was 14.3 and short and built like a bulldozer and could do anything? That's before they all turned into looking like race horses.

They didn't ALL turn into Thoroughbreds, silly. Some turned into beef cattle!

An Impressive, I presume?

 

[Margo_C-T]

Oh, gosh, don't let me get started about today's QH 'halter horses'! Makes me physically ILL to look at them--huge, massively overdeveloped lumps on post pasterns and pony-sized feet. Makes me VERY sad to think of what the QH I knew has been turned into, by human foible.

I LOVED QH's from the get-go; the mare I mentioned(Luz Benedict)was only 14 h,. 1/2 in., but she was fast as lightning, and moved like a CAT...but, her BEST ability was as a broodmare, because she had the GENETICS!

Marty, how well I remember the 'all around' horse; it's what I ALWAYS wanted and had...who the heck wants to have to haul a different horse for every event?

I walked away from QHs-and eventually, the APHA show ring(they're just spotted QHs) when 'peanut rolling' became established. I 'credit'(sarcasm intended!) Tommy Manion with getting that going, and like lemmings, people followed.) There was no way in HE** I was, then or now, going to train/cause a horse to 'go' that way...

There 'WAS' a reason why the QH was 'America's horse'--its all around versatility, temperment, and toughness...but, sadly,so much of that has been lost, and it is the fault of humankind. Food for thought about breeding for what is 'popular' at the moment, IMO....

OT a bit, but...just a couple of days ago, I saw a TV piece on a Whippet with 'double muscle'? syndrome...this was a REAL dog, but amazingly, looked MUCH like the canine version of the photoshopped pic that mininik posted! At least they weren't breeding her!!

Margo

 

[mininik]

Here's the double muscled Whippet:

Belgian Blue cattle are bred for double muscling:

It's thought to be different genetically than what causes the heavy muscling in many HYPP positive horses.

 

[wildoak]

How about when you only had ONE horse that would do it all??????

Oh yes, I only had one horse most of the time growing up and she could do pretty much everything. (and she was probably 14'2)

Aaack, to the double muscled whippet.........!!

Jan

 

[Mercysmom]

Interesting thread as I had a QH/Arab pony that was my first horse...rode QHs for a friend and enjoyed them - she was into doing everything with her QHs and they did well in a variety of disciplines.

A Morgan breeder I know said the same thing is happening to the Morgans - breeders are going for a certain "look" in their halter horses but not the type the breed was known for. I like having one horse that can do it all...and it is a lot easier at the shows when you only have to get one horse ready.

Go fix that AllBreed Pedigree - I like knowing that information is correct, too.

Denise

 

[miniwhinny]

That 14 hand, agile, can do anything pony that you remember as the early QH was the 95% Spanish mustang in them. King ranch had hundreds of these spanish ponies in their breeding program. Possibly not openly (haven't studied the QH) but the old time SM breeders were delivering them...and the conformation shows it...that ONLY came from teh spanish horse. Now the equine genome project has proven it - the QH descends from the Spanish mustang (as do almost all American breeds) Now I'm NOT talking what many people think of when they think and see a mustang - a horse of mixed breeding. I'm talking pure Spanish mustang. Horses like the Sulphur,Bookcliff even the recently discovered Abaco. These were the small wirey horse that the Conquistadors brought to the New World. Narrow chested, sloping croup, medium to low set tail, medium to short necks...ALL the conformation that nature gave them (the opposite of what man seems to find attractive these days) These horses could go up and down almost sheer cliffs with this conformation. They could get their hips right underthemselves with this conrotmation. Hard upright hooves with plenty of heel...I could go on. This is the horse that gave the Nez Pearce horses from the Paloose country of the Oregon/Washington/idaho borders it's famous spotted horses as the Spanish horse carried the Leopard complex of colors. All colors seen in American horses today came from these ponies...Overo, dun, dilutes, etc.

If you truely understand the pure mechanics of conformation, what bones, muscles can move where - not what you "learn" people look for today - then you'll realize that what "SOME" people

find attractive today (like you said look what we've done to these animals "we" create) flat croups, high set tails, long necks etc...is the exact opposite of what nature gives the wild equine and IMO there is NO test of useable conformation more perfect than mother nature.

 

[Pepipony]

Once the AQHA became a money maker, everything changed. No one horse could do it all. Besides the Halter horses, look how Reiners and WP has changed. WP no longer lopes, they do a sick crab jog/lope thing. Reiners have their heads tucked so far I cant believe they dont step on their chins. Its gross and sad at the same time.