License To Carry / Concealed Weapons Permit (POLL)

[andi]

I am terrified of the things. LOL I moved to texas a couple years ago, submerged in the "culture", and it sure hasn't helped. LOL In my life experiance, I can not think of a situation I have been in or any one I have known personally has been in, where having a gun would have been neccesary. I can think of a few, where if a gun had been present, something impulsive and irreversable may have happened. I am not at all for taking away anyones rights to own or carry, but strongly disagree that it is a neccesity for as large a % of the population as the pro-gun people make it out to seem.

I really do find your story Vicki entertaining, and I am sure, knowing you, you wouldn't abuse or missuse. At the same time, these are my thoughts from a totally conversational pro/anti gun debate. While that gun served it's purpose, it could have really ended badly. Either A, you overeacted and they were just idiot kids, they needed a good screaming at or even a complaint filed, or B, you were right to be afraid and it was a dangerous situation, and in that circumstance, they most likely would have shot you when they saw that gun, again not a solution. I think in the end you were lucky it was just idiots and that you had just one-up'd them on the intimidation factor.

 

[Jill]

Hubby and I are signing up over the summer when he is on shutdown at work. I have been an outdoor woman since I was a wee one...lol. Hunted with my Dad starting at 6 yrs old and he made me go to the local Police station one summer to learn how to properly handle -clean & shoot a weapon. I ended up going every saturday morning for $2.00 you could target practice that included the price of the bullets.(seriously can you imagine being able to do that now)We live between two correctional facilitys one is in El Dorado and one minimum security in Winfield. There have been escapes and walk offs at both & with that said...I am glad I know how to use one

.

WTG

ETA:

“Guns are our friends because in a country without guns, I'm what's known as "prey." All females are.”

-- Ann Coulter

​

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Brandishing a weapon without cause is reason for being arrested, in most areas. Someone sitting in a car next to you is NOT justification. Unless they flash a gun of their own, you have no reasonable fear for your life. You can be nervous all you want, but fear? No. Nerves aren't justification for deadly force. Pulling a weapon is the same as shooting one, in many places. And it doesn't matter if its a toy gun (or BB) or a 45, they are all equal when it comes to brandishing. Those kids could have and should have reported you.

Also, having a weapon in a car, even a BB, that is concealed, is a felony in most states unless you have a permit. KY is fortunate in that having a weapon in the glove box, even loaded, is not considered concealed as long as you declare it in a traffic stop.

Yes, I have a permit and carry everywhere.

Do not support open carry, btw. Showing off a weapon is reason enough to frighten most people, and that's not fair to the majority who see it that are perfectly law abiding. Is that fear justified? No, but tell that to those who are made nervous/fearful because of it

Its easy enough to bear it without drawing should someone threaten you. And if they threaten with deadly force, easy enough to draw and fire.

 

[Jill]

Well, you know... when guns are outlawed, only the outlaws have guns. I'm very happy to have the ability to legally protect myself against those for whom laws lend no deterrence. I'm also proud to have taken ownership of that ability.

 

[andi]

As I mentioned before, I fully support people having the freedom to own and carry guns. I support that because I do not believe in taking away anyones rights, freedom to the fullest extent reasonable.

Something people should think about though, and this is about using catchy slogans and bumperstickers as the base of your defence, is you will get more people agreeing with you and supporting you if you respect them enough to explain your thoughts. For example, if I was "moved" by the statement, "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns", my support would be on very shaky ground. The moment my supporters realize how unvaluable and sensless that logo is you have lost my support. For example, there are plenty of things that are illegal, that outlaws "get to do", that you can't. Making things legal, on the simple bases to make things "fair" and level the playing field is rediculous. For example, when murder is outlawed, only the outlaws murder. Well that isn't fair, we should go back to eye for an eye, legalize the retaliation. Doesnt really make sense.

But if you gain my support on the idea of freedom and justice and explaining that those rights are at the very root of gun ownership, then you have a much more loyal follower.

 

[Sonya]

Oh man....here we go again, James why do you attack everything she says? You must be bored to pieces. Yes, she used a slogan which I am sure everyone has heard before. After the slogan, in her own words she explained why she used the slogan. And I don't think Jill's purpose with this thread is try to make those who are anti-gun suddenly do an about face and join the NRA...geez!

 

[vickie gee]

Forgot to vote so I went back and put in my NO. BTW the story I told happened a long time ago and I admit that I was certainly less mature then. I likely would have deserved a lecture back then that causing them to run the redlight was very dangerous and stupid (especially since they were pulling a low boy trailer). I am glad nobody got hurt. They were not youths. They were grown men older than I was at the time. Not sure if they were trying to be bullies or flirt. If it happened again no doubt I would be able to just ignore their antics to try get me to notice them.

 

[Jill]

Thanks, Sonya. It's pretty hard to not notice that someone has taken a real shine to reading my every posted word on LB.

 

[andi]

Sonya I am going to try very hard to not be as insulted as you inteded to make me feel. I am sorry that my disagreements with Slogans and bumpersticker politics offend you on such a personal level. I would never dare try to dimish and belittle your opinion by assuming the only reason you speak is to alleviate some sort of sad bordem, I would genuinly appreciate it if you did the same.

Vicki, I think your wonderful. I know that me responding to your story and pretty much "using" you as an example of why a gun is not always a solution could be easily missunderstood as a personal attack. I am very releived that you were willing to listen and respond, and furthermor, understand where I was coming from.

This topic was started by Jill to discuss having a liscense to carry. Before I got involved it was already a discussion about that and multiple people had voiced their opinions about whether it is right or wrong. My first involvment was to voice my opinion, which was agreeing with permitting guns, and respond to Vicki. It was not just to fight with Jill.

It does frustrate me when people start topics under the guise of promoting an open discussion, only to dismiss those who disagree with them with slogans, bumperstickers and let me also add, sense you have garnered my attention, feer mongering. I'll give you an example, you know I dont like to speak without having backup.

We have Amanda, who says she feels safe in her own town, people leave there cars running, she is comfortable without a gun. You put up a link to prove that she isn't safe. She lives there! I am sorry but Amanda has to be considered the authority on how safe she feels in her own town! A horrible attempt at scaring someone into gun ownership.

As far as the slogan goes. The entire point that slogan makes is, if something violent is made illegal then criminals can hurt the people who follow the law and the law abiding citizen can't do anything about it. Put guns, murder, domestic violance, anything into those paramaters. It makes no sense. There are plenty of dangerous things that are illegal, that criminals do anyways, that "we" can't. That slogan, in it self, carries no validity other than sounding catchy.

Finally Jill, I always do, every single line, every single time, and will always reply if I have an opinion on the topic.

I am still trying to understand how I am a bad person for doing that?

 

[Sonya]

I also told Amanda I respect her reasons for not wanted to go somewhere with her friend while carrying....and no town is totally safe today, hence my link....I also live in a tiny out of way town but still lock my doors, etc, and hope everyone else does too.

James you in no way insulted me so no need to worry about that

.

 

[andi]

Sonya, what I don't understand is how you came across this knowledge that no town is safe? Specifically, you brought it up in response to someone saying, I feel safe enough in my town to not need a gun, your intention was to change this persons mind. To make them aware of an opposing reality, no, your town doesn't meet that level of safety. I just find it very hard to understand how anyone can know how safe or unsafe everysingle part of the country is? To feel this way you have to be at some level, just making an assumption. I will probably regret it, but I dont mind admitting, I can't remember the last time I slept in a house with a locked door. Right now, at this moment, my only need to start locking it is less about the "crazy texans" with guns who live around here and more about the mini horse owners that are reading this. LOL I also can't begin to count the number of times I have left my vehicle on while running into a store, not on purpose, and had a panic attack when I can't find my keys in my pocket! Keep in mind I drive an extremely loud duelly, that I am usually standing right next to when I come out of the store as I search for my keys. LOL Call me ignorant or naive, but I would imagine if a mathmatician looked at the numbers, for many parts of the country, of car thefts and random acts of violance etc, it would be considered a waste of time to worry about these sorts of things to the extent we are often convinced we should.

 

[Sonya]

I do not feel any town is totally safe, unfortunately...and believe it or not I did research Fargo years ago when we were almost transferred there. I don't care about my car, that is just a 'thing'. But I do lock my doors when I'm in it and my home doors are locked at night...always. And unless you've ever been a victim of a crime then I guess it's something you would not understand. I have been a victim and intend to never be again. I urge every one, no matter where you live/drive to lock your home doors at night and your car when you are in it. Its not paranoia it's just adding a little layer of safety. And if you want, go get a gun, it's your right in this country.

 

[andi]

I can't say I disagree with anything that you have shifted the focus too and won't bother trying to simplify it by showing how far it has went from the original point you were making to Amanda.

All in all, these discussions really seem to reestablish and support the stereotype I have been hearing about Liberals vs. Conservatives. The idea that while Liberals agree with Liberals, and Conservatives agree with Conservatives, they go about it very differently. Liberals have open conversations with one another about why they feel the way they do, more focus on the motives and thought process behind their beliefs, which can lead to disagreements, which could to some seem like a waste of time. Conservatives just play nice the whole time, don't delve an deeper, don't risk offending someone and losing their support, at the end of the day, conservatives just want another person to join their side to get a majority and get control. Style over substance, it works for almost everything nowadays ...

 

[Danielle_E.]

Another interesting topic and one I have never been able to understand or wrap my head around. The mentality that revolves around this entire issue. I understand that Americans feel that their rights would be violated if you weren't allowed your guns. I would rather not have that right. There are too many stories coming out of the US with kids getting a hold of a gun and killing classmates and teachers. I don't want to worry daily that my grandaughter could face something like that nor do I want HER worrying about something so terrible. The recent Florida case is another example. I know you are going to say "well I needit to protect myself from the ones carrying a gun illegally". There have been just too many cases of also innocent people being shot by over zealous and out of control individuals. I hope that Canada never goes this route. I want to continue feeling safe in my surrounding and not becoming paranoid and so worried on having to defend myself because anyone could be out to get you. We do not lock our doors at home unless we are out, otherwise night or day, when home, the doors are never locked and I feel very secure. I do however worry about guns crossing from the US into Canada or from international waters, Asia, via Vancouver. Canada needs more and better border control to stop guns coming into my country. Those that want guns to hunt game with I have no problems with because they aren't the type of guns a criminal could conceal.

 

[minie812]

I wish I could say I feel safe even living in rural Kansas. One of our neighbors is a sheriff deputy the other is a convicted felon who just got out of prison for the second time. There was a big drug bust that involved several of the smaller towns in our area that over several months went down with many arrests. Meth-cocaine-pot so to say I feel safe...NOT! Even with a cop living around the corner 1 mile from me. I lock my doors at night and we have guns in our house. Crime happens everywhere now and no area is immune to it and a criminal will kill for no reason. The key is educating yourself on the proper use of a firearm.

 

[andi]

Danielle,

For me personally, the biggest reason to allow this freedom is that by doing so inflicts no harm on another human being. If someone wants to own a gun, that ownership is no threat to me and my freedom. Now, if that person decides to harm me, be it with a gun, a bow and arrow, a plastic bag, or just happens to attack me on one of my "off days" LOL, that person needs to be held accountable by the law. I honestly don't think the added guns in the population, due to them being legal, make it any more "scary" here in America. Also, if you look at the numbers above, and keep in mind this is a relatively conservative group, only 7 out of 32 voters have a gun license, nationally I would imagine it is much lower. So in reality, very little chance of walking down the street and notice granny is packin'. I think the added "scare" is the result of the aforementioned "fear mongering", it is actually a double edged sword. Yes, it scares some people into thinking they "need" a gun, while it scares other people into thinking they need to be outlawed.

One thing I would be interested in researching is the supposed increase in violence nationwide. My thought is, we all hear people say it, how much safer it used to be. This is said to explain how guns are now more needed, like our Society as a whole has become a more dangerous place. Does anyone know if this is actually proven? If so, I think we all need to focus on what is causing this change, if it truly is a nationwide issue, not just on arming ourselves against each other.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

I am all for people owning guns to protect their homes. However, I can tell from the responses here that most posters do not live in a gang infested area. Living in Southern California, I shutter to think what crime would be like if the low lives here were allowed to legally carry loaded weapons on them, concealed or not. It may be fine in a back country area where hunting is the main sport, but in high crime areas where drugs and gangs rule the streets, I would freak out to see large groups of men in the street flashing their guns in their waistbands for all to see.

We were in a bank not too long ago and we saw a man who moved his shirt and obviously had a gun in his waistband. This man was not a gangmember, but an older gentleman who could have very well been an undercover officer. But we told the security guard what we saw and he watched the man closely. The thought of being around people who I know are carrying a gun terrifies me, especially if I don't know what their intentions are. I understand the need to feel like you can scare someone into not messing with you, and to feel like you are capable of defending yourself, but just think about how the people who don't know why you have it in a bank or liquor store feel. Like I said, in an area that doesn't have high crime, this may not be as big of a fear.

In the mid 90s, we had a robbery at our local McDonalds. My friend was a cashier there and a gunman held a gun to him ordering him to get the manager. The man got the money he was after and on his way out, an off duty officer noticed the gun in this man's hand. The officer pulled his weapon and approached the man. They started firing at one another, and the robber was killed, as was a 7 year old girl who was caught in the crossfire. Now, if the officer would have allowed the robber to leave the building before approaching him, that girl would still be alive. I understand the officer's need to 'protect the people', but the robber was leaving without hurting anyone. I feel the officer could have handled the situation differently but because he had a gun at his disposal, he re-acted without taking the general public's safety into account. It's my belief that a lot of people react, and ask questions later.

 

[Sonya]

James said: (I can't get the quotes to work)

I just find it very hard to understand how anyone can know how safe or unsafe everysingle part of the country is? To feel this way you have to be at some level, just making an assumption. I will probably regret it, but I dont mind admitting, I can't remember the last time I slept in a house with a locked door. Right now, at this moment, my only need to start locking it is less about the "crazy texans" with guns who live around here and more about the mini horse owners that are reading this. LOL I also can't begin to count the number of times I have left my vehicle on while running into a store, not on purpose, and had a panic attack when I can't find my keys in my pocket! Keep in mind I drive an extremely loud duelly, that I am usually standing right next to when I come out of the store as I search for my keys. LOL Call me ignorant or naive, but I would imagine if a mathmatician looked at the numbers, for many parts of the country, of car thefts and random acts of violance etc, it would be considered a waste of time to worry about these sorts of things to the extent we are often convinced we should.

I can't say I disagree with anything that you have shifted the focus too and won't bother trying to simplify it by showing how far it has went from the original point you were making to Amanda.

James...afraid I did not shift the focus, you did with your long paragraph on how you don't understand how someone can not feel safe with your story about your car, etc...and I addressed that with my response on why I don't feel safe.

Funny, I don't recall conservative vs. liberal being brought up on this topic until you just did.

 

[Jill]

I agree with, or can see, the points that many if you have made here.

I am by nature safety conscious. We lock our doors, we have an alarm system, we have several means of protection.

When it comes to locking your doors, I can't understand why somebody would take this most basic step. I mean really, what's the downside?

I started this thread because I was curious to see the responses. Also, if someone was contemplating getting a license to carry, I hoped this might further inspire them to do so.

 

[andi]

Sonya,

My "long paragraph" about locking my house and car were in direct response to the very first post by Amanda, where she used that example to explain the level of safety she felt in Fargo, and also in response to your opinion on the level of safety you feel by your need to lock cars and homes. So it was not at all to shift focus. It was being used to explain how we all feel about our safety level, which is what we have been disagreeing about. Your last response, that I considered purposely shifting the focus, included a number of statements that no one would disagree with, making you appear "right", but that have no bearing on whether or not you can better judge how safe Amanda should feel in her town, which was the original idea I was questioning. Those comments, about the feeling of being a victim, that cars are just material objects, that nowhere is TOTALLY safe, that locking doors is a good idea, inferring that I might call you a liar about researching Fargo; no matter how true those statement, they have no bearing on if you have a better understanding of how safe a town is than the person living there. They seemed to be added to just be able to make some points that nobody would disagree with, whether or not they were applicable.

I guess the alternative is that your last post, that I considered shifting focus, was actually in no way in reply to our previous conversation, so it is understandable that it appeared to be shifting focus, because it wasn't meant to be focused on our previous conversation at all.

My added thoughts about Liberal vs Conservative were very clearly a separate thought, I replied to our conversation first, and then specified that the following thoughts were about recent conversations in general, not about the specific details we were discussing. My intention of making a different valid point, about something unrelated was not with the intent of hoping that it would make me "right" in the other topic.