Let's say I break into your house

[TriggynBluenDaisy Too]

Wow

, right to the gutter this has gone by some comments but I looked at one name and I wasn't surprised one bit, it's the usual ......

...

Look Dannielle, you have problems with me so be it, but do us all a favor and keep your snotty comments to yourself or better yet PM your minions about what a terrible person you think I am. I don't happen to like the majority of what you say or the things you have done yet I have not bothered to make such a ridiculous issue out of it.

Believe me I could say a lot to you and about you and you probably would deserve it but I don't. I even sent you an email telling you that I thought you had done a lovely thing for Marty, not to make you think different of me because I could give a rip as far as you're concerned but because I genuinely thought it was a gesture from the heart and thought you should be complimented on it regardless how I personally feel about you. My signature was put there in honor of people just like you.

This thread is not about Canadian/US relations but some look for every opportunity they can to slam America and the people in it. Frankly, I've had more than enough of it and I will speak up about it whenever I feel the need. I never once have thought or said Canada is a terrible place. I love this country like they love theirs AND we all have our problems. Neither is some Utopian paradise, but I for one am not slamming Canada for all the things wrong with it and expect the same courtesy. As I said Jenn has a history, as we all do, and her comments were not so much meant to be a positive reflection of Canada but yet another self rightous slam on us. I KNOW I was not the only one who took them that way.

Tag I'm glad you have had a good experience on both sides and do understand the plight we are facing. I didn't say you weren't entitled to be here and if you would go back and reread or point out just where you thought I said that, then I will apologise. You are here legally you said so why would you not be welcomed with open arms? You have not done the things illegals have to milk the system, you used it well within the scope of your rights to do so. And yes, I do wonder why people would leave Canada under any circumstances, jobs or not, to come here. After all are there not all these wonderful opportunities,jobs etc., that some claim are so abundant in Canada? Just curious. It seems so contradictory that's all.

We used to have one of the best health care systems in the world but it is collapsing under the welfare mentality that has brought more than one country to it's knees. A huge part of that is the burden of taking care of others who really have no legal entitlement to it and for that we have ended up forsaking our own. That is the real tradgedy in this whole mess.

 

[SunQuest]

Wow, I could not agree more with the very first post.

And some of the rest of this thread just amazes me. Sorry I am so late to this thread, but after reading all of it, I have some rather strong thoughts. And I have to say that thank heavens we live in a country where we all are FREE to agree or disagree with each other.

I am a daughter of a LEGAL immigrant. And let me tell you, it makes me furious that our government will not enforce the laws that are on record! After all, we don't need new laws, but we need to enforce those that are existing!

My aunt is in the process of writing a book telling about her life and part of it is about living in a nation devistated by war during WWII when she was a young teenager and what all they had to do to get here legally. I was shocked to hear the way they were treated and demoralized just to get approved to immigrate in 1955. For instance, my aunt wrote that her mom and her had to stand in line WITHOUT clothes on to get inspected for health issues infront of USA officials before they got approval and boarded the ship that brought them here!!! Why? It was to protect the members of the USA from health issues, and they were NOT in a 3rd world country at the time! And they had to have a sponsor and then they had NO handouts from the government. They arrived with litterally just the clothes on their backs and they worked their fannies off to learn a job skill and to learn to speak english. No medical handouts, no food stamps, nothing! The sponsors may have secured the initial job for them and that was the most help they had.

I have no problem with work visas and no problem with people immigrating. I would welcome ANY of them with open arms AS LONG AS IT IS DONE LEGALLY where we can be reasonably certain through thorough background and health checks that the people are honest, law abiding, and productive members of society so that our country is not run out of business supporting those who do nothing to return that support to the local communities.

Again, I am not against human rights for everyone and helping those in need, but we must also guard against loosing our rights that we have paid for in dollars and in blood because we are complacent in who we allow to be here and are equally complacent about how much we have to borrow to have to help them. And as a legal citizen of the USA, it is my right to expect that the tax dollars that I work so hard to pay go to the programs that will help those that are in our country legally FIRST and foremost. The only way to not be complacent is to enforce the laws we have to keep illegals out.

And for what it is worth, I am not so nieve as to say or even believe that our friends to the north are not experiencing any of the issues we have, especially when I know for a fact (sister in-law who is in law enforcement for the state of Idaho) that there are MAJOR routes that take illegals from Mexico to Canada which happen to go right through my own state.

And it is not about bashing other countries in any way. It is about making sure that our OWN country doesn't go bankrupt (we are well on our way to this IMO) due to the extra burden from people that don't pay taxes.

 

[tagalong]

And yes, I do wonder why people would leave Canada under any circumstances, jobs or not, to come here. After all are there not all these wonderful opportunities,jobs etc., that some claim are so abundant in Canada? Just curious. It seems so contradictory that's all.

Why does it seem contradictory? Have you never moved to a different state for a different job? I've moved clear across Canada for different jobs in the past.

There are wonderful and differing opportunities everywhere... are the American friends I have who are living and working in Canada being contradictory? Are there not enough wonderful opportunities etc. here? Of course there are - but that is not the point. We are enjoying new experiences... and meeting new friends... and there is nothing contradictory about that... or wrong.

I didn't say you weren't entitled to be here and if you would go back and reread or point out just where you thought I said that, then I will apologise. You are here legally you said so why would you not be welcomed with open arms?

Well.... this seemed a bit... off.

I often wonder when someone is so pro Canada, why are they here? I think Canada is a lovely place but it's certainly not a place I'd willingly choose to live if I weren't born there.

As in - say anything nice about Canada and - get outta here - you should go home as you do not desrve to be here. Can you see that? PMs I got from a few upset members here show I was not the only one who went.... HUH? at that...

Tagalongs rendition sounds similar to my friends sister in law's ordeal and she was married to a US citizen but they turned her and the kids around at the border because all of her paperwork was not completed.

You can be turned around even if your paperwork is done perfectly. Even if you have supplied all the required information and then some. Why? Because everything depends on the mood of the officer you deal with. They have absolute power.... and have their little routines/games that are designed to try and get you irritated. I know they are "games" - as I have seen them repeated many times... the same lines. Notably the What Makes YOU Think I Should Allow YOU Into MY Country.... roared with contempt and with hands pounding on the counter for emphasis. I have seen that played with many different people - and me. I jus nodded and smiled and did not take the bait. Another favourite line I heard a lot... as they handed you your paperwork back and threw the visa at you - and I do mean threw ... Congratulations!! You have just stolen a job from a fine American citizen!!

Only... I/we didn't. The employer - who most certainly is a fine American citizen - requested us specifically and has done their own jumping through flaming hoops to make it happen.

It has been a delightful shock at times to deal with an officer who is pleasant, interested and not into bullying - and I have told them so and thanked them. I hope the bullies can be phased out...

The immigration service needs an overhaul - including some of the officers who are the ambassadors for their country at the ports of entry. But most importantly - with the issue of illegal aliens.

Amnesty??!! Not a good idea IMHO.

BTW - I have no love for some Canada Customs officials, either - and I am sure Canada has its own share of rude immigration officials. Two Customs officers decided to charge me $375 duty on my then 5 year old truck - which the paperwork proved was purchased - and came off the assemby line - in Canada!

 

[kaykay]

wow is about all i can say at the turn this thread took. Some of this stuff is obviously really personal between specific posters. I have to wonder though as I have posted stuff that hasnt even come close to what is posted on this thread and mine all get deleted lmbo. One of those things that makes you go hmmm??

 

[LowriseMinis]

This reminds me of the time several years ago we drove into Canada. On the way in the customs officer was very welcoming, chatted a moment with us about our visit, welcomed us to Canada and we were on our way.

Coming back in we pulled forward to the window and the American officer started yelling at my dad about pulling forward to the window without being waved forward first, because it would have been VERY easy to mistake him for someone making a run for it and, as he made sure we ALL saw his gun, pointed out every person on the border was armed. He proceeded to give us the 20 questions routine about what we'd been doing in Canada and why we were heading back over the border. Then proceeded to imply we'd stolen by buying items at the duty-free stores because we hadn't been in the country for 24 hours.

This was 8 years ago but it left me with a VERY strong impression about these two countries. If that's the kind of reception people get coming into America, I'm not shocked we have a horrible international reputation, nor am I shocked people try to sneak in.

 

[Jesper]

This reminds me of the time several years ago we drove into Canada. On the way in the customs officer was very welcoming, chatted a moment with us about our visit, welcomed us to Canada and we were on our way.

Coming back in we pulled forward to the window and the American officer started yelling at my dad about pulling forward to the window without being waved forward first, because it would have been VERY easy to mistake him for someone making a run for it and, as he made sure we ALL saw his gun, pointed out every person on the border was armed. He proceeded to give us the 20 questions routine about what we'd been doing in Canada and why we were heading back over the border. Then proceeded to imply we'd stolen by buying items at the duty-free stores because we hadn't been in the country for 24 hours.

This was 8 years ago but it left me with a VERY strong impression about these two countries. If that's the kind of reception people get coming into America, I'm not shocked we have a horrible international reputation, nor am I shocked people try to sneak in.

ooh that is just like I am treated everytime, but only when I enter the US, other countries are no problem, not even the UK that are VERY strict about who they let in and Holland is just fine too since I only use them as transit country on my way out in the world.

US customs/immigrations is horrid to go through, there you are guilty until proven otherwise

 

[Sonya]

US customs/immigrations is horrid to go through, there you are guilty until proven otherwise

My husband travels to and from Canada almost every year on his yearly fishing trip with his father. He said he has had problems with both...but more so with the US agents.

Don't know why it is, if it's just bad seeds or the problem lies deeper. To be honest, I don't mind (probably because I'm not the one having to deal with them), I think it is more a way of intimidation than anything and probably what they are told to do and their intent. If people don't feel welcome, that's fine with me...as long as the agents are doing their job and may be stopping something illegal that shouldn't be happening.

Lets face it things are NOT the same here since 9-11. I work in an aviation related govt job and I see restrictions, etc...that were not there before 9-11 and I'm thankful for it.

 

[TriggynBluenDaisy Too]

And yes, I do wonder why people would leave Canada under any circumstances, jobs or not, to come here. After all are there not all these wonderful opportunities,jobs etc., that some claim are so abundant in Canada? Just curious. It seems so contradictory that's all.

Why does it seem contradictory? Have you never moved to a different state for a different job? I've moved clear across Canada for different jobs in the past.

There are wonderful and differing opportunities everywhere... are the American friends I have who are living and working in Canada being contradictory? Are there not enough wonderful opportunities etc. here? Of course there are - but that is not the point. We are enjoying new experiences... and meeting new friends... and there is nothing contradictory about that... or wrong.

Why do you insist that I think it's wrong? I don't. We aren't talking about moving to a different state, we are talking about moving to a different culture, laws, social structure, etc. Canada and US may be very similar in some ways but drastically different in others. Again I don't understand that if Canada is such a perfect place, abundant in all ways, why would anyone want to live here if it's so inferior to all things Canadian? The logic eludes me but I guess some are just masochistic?

I didn't say you weren't entitled to be here and if you would go back and reread or point out just where you thought I said that, then I will apologise. You are here legally you said so why would you not be welcomed with open arms?

Well.... this seemed a bit... off.

Why? Have you forgotten what you said so soon? It was in response to your comment, "Silly me - I was offered a JOB here - in an area that I have always visited and loved (did not take the job from anyone - and it will not exist when I leave) and accepted it. I have gone through all the heartbreaking hassles, expense and LEGAL paperwork etc., pay my taxes, obey the law, do many hours of volunteer work a week and carry on like all my American friends and love my life (minus the health care issues) ... I find it unsettling that some can sit in judgement of that and decide that I am"unworthy" of being here. Or that I am only entitled to an opinion if it is the "right" one....

if you moved elsewhere - would you not defend/support the US in such conversations if you had experience in that topic? Of course you would..." ETA Certainly would but I wouldn't be the aggressor in the matter. As I said I wouldn't be slamming someone's country regardless whether I was living there or not but I guess that's just me. Seems like so many here relish any opportunity to do so.

I often wonder when someone is so pro Canada, why are they here? I think Canada is a lovely place but it's certainly not a place I'd willingly choose to live if I weren't born there.

As in - say anything nice about Canada and - get outta here - you should go home as you do not desrve to be here. Can you see that? PMs I got from a few upset members here show I was not the only one who went.... HUH? at that...

Well I wasn't clear or you misunderstood. I definately wouldn't tell you to take a hike if you said "nice" things about Canada, but I would tell gladly tell you to not let the door hit you in the butt when you leave if you insist on slamming where I live. I might even offer buy you a bus ticket to expedite the process, lol. I've visited quite a few countries and I find each wonderful and interesting in their own way but as the saying goes there is no place like home. Ergo I wouldn't willingly choose to live elsewhere but if I did I would be respectful of the place and the people hosting me, not ragging on an on about what a crappy place I thought it was for whatever reason.

Why would a "few upset members", if indeed there really was any, be upset that the above is MY choice? I'm certainly not upset with theirs. Really, how would one be offended if someone else would choose not to live somewhere, give me a break.

...

 

[Sonya]

Shirley I always enjoy reading your posts...

I find it funny that if we (being americans) says positive things about the U.S. and defend it, there a couple posters who feel we are being smug, etc..

but if a poster says negative things about the U.S. and positive thing about Canada (just using Canada as an example)...they are pro Canada...hmmm, interesting!

Of course we have all strayed from Shari's original post...I don't believe anyone in the U.S. would ever deny a Legal immigrant...but yes there is a problem with illegals and it has to stop.

I live in Michigan and Dearborn has to have one of the largest Arab populations in the U.S. Do I have a problem with it? Absolutely not.....except when they decide to not be a "part" of the U.S. society, not contribute (not only am I talking about taxes) to the well-being of this country, choose to seperate themselves from the rest of the country and are only here to make money. Of course, this is a free country and that is their right, but I don't like it and I don't have to.

 

[tagalong]

Why do you insist that I think it's wrong? I don't. We aren't talking about moving to a different state, we are talking about moving to a different culture, laws, social structure, etc. Canada and US may be very similar in some ways but drastically different in others. Again I don't understand that if Canada is such a perfect place, abundant in all ways, why would anyone want to live here if it's so inferior to all things Canadian? The logic eludes me but I guess some are just masochistic?

I did not say YOU said it was "wrong"... you seem determined to find fault with anything I say..... no matter how mild. Sort of like some of the immigration officers...

And WHERE did I EVER say that everything here was INFERIOR to all things Canadian? Nowhere. And no - I am not a masochist. But thanks for the label.

People move and work in other places in the world for the new experience, as I said - to make new friends - to step beyond their borders (in more ways than one), open their eyes etc. Why do people go to university in other countries? There is certainly nothing wrong with US universities - but they want to have a different experience.

Certainly would but I wouldn't be the aggressor in the matter. As I said I wouldn't be slamming someone's country regardless whether I was living there or not but I guess that's just me. Seems like so many here relish any opportunity to do so.

HUH? Aggressor?? Where was I "slamming someone's country"? I was speaking to the immigration issue at hand to start with - just my personal - and very real - experiences. I have not been slamming ANY country... but that is the picture you insist on painting.

Ergo I wouldn't willingly choose to live elsewhere but if I did I would be respectful of the place and the people hosting me, not ragging on an on about what a crappy place I thought it was for whatever reason.

And again - you seem to be insisting that I have been raging (or ragging if you prefer) on and on about what a crappy place this is - when that is NOT the truth. I certainly would not have put up with the visa hassles, sneering and humiliation if that was the case. I had some immigration experiences to share - and a health care one as well as the subject came up. I thought we were discussing issues - not bashing... or at least - that is what some of us were trying to do.

Why would a "few upset members", if indeed there really was any, be upset that the above is MY choice? I'm certainly not upset with theirs. Really, how would one be offended if someone else would choose not to live somewhere, give me a break.

And now you are suggesting that I am lying??!!

Wow.

You missed the point. Or chose to sidestep it.

We went HUH? because you seemed to be saying that saying anything positive about anywhere else - meant you should not live here. And that was truly a HUH??!! moment...

But - whatever. It appears that you simply want to find fault with everything I say - and even things that I never said - and never will say.

SO to get back on topic - I shared my immigration hassles (and it seems that others have encountered rude officials as well)... and denounced those who feel they should skip all that and simply be granted Green Cards/amnesty/whatever they please... when they broke the law.

I say - no, get in line and do things the right way...

Moving anywhere is a privilege - not a right.

 

[HGFarm]

Wow, this is a hot one............

I dont know why this turned into a U.S. /Canada thing here, but I will tell you, I dont live far from Robin1, and yes, we have a SERIOUS problem here! EVERY night on the news, the reports of nothing but crime have shifted over the last couple of years to be pretty much nothing but illegal aliens in the news committing them. Good neighborhoods are now getting a bit scarey to drive through in town.

I will tell you that a lot of 'white collar' crime is being done by illegals from other countries- MANY of whom are coming in through Canada!! Mexico is now trying to outdo Nigeria I think in the 'fraud ring' positions and the fraud rate in AZ and So Cal is going up. I have worked several cases the last few weeks and ALL names involved were hispanic and ALL merchandise stolen is going to Mexico!! They are also stealing people's social security numbers and info, and getting phoney ID's etc... made so they can get a job so the employer doesnt know they are not legal. Then when they open up credit card accounts, etc.. and dont pay, they dont care because it is not their credit that is being ruined!

Yes, the employers here who hire the illegals are SUPPOSED to be fined, but how many times are they reported or get caught?

I know a TON of people here from other countries, and they all came here legally and have worked and been a benefit to society, they are not looting, stealing and killing people.

In 2000, this state had the highest number of illegals per capita, than any other state in the Union and also ranked at the top of the crime rates of many types. We were number 1 in the entire country for property crimes, 2nd for larceny theft, 5th for burglaries, 9th for murder and 15th for aggrevated assaults and robberies.

In 2003 the rate of illegals here in AZ was at 3.1% of the adult population, yet 4.54% of the overall prison population. One of every 22 prisoners is a deportable alien. I understand in CA it is now even higher.

Hospitals in border states provide over $200 MILLION a year in uncompensated emergency care to illegals. And guess what? My insurance costs are going up over 5 TIMES this year!!! 30% of the annual budget in Coshise County (AZ) was spent on illegal aliens. Some of the medical facilities are going bancrupt and closing because they cannot afford to stay open.

In CA, the state budget is being crunched and cutbacks are occuring with Medicaid and Childrens Health insurance programs, but the law makes the hospitals provide free service for illegals. One in five people in CA does not even have insurance, but they cannot get care.

Food stamps are being provided for illegals under deceptive means and our taxes are paying for it.

I could go on and on- it is mind boggling.

 

[Dairygirl]

Don't go to St John's hospital. Not as much problem with the illegals filling it it up. But the ER doc there...can't be trusted.

Sent hubby home with three badly broken ribs,,,telling him he did not have broken ribs..but I knew better. Then have the head ER doc call up in a panic the next morning telling me to drive him in because they made an mistake.

Or when I came off the horse...they told hubby to take me home..but no one could move me because everytime they did I blacked out because of the pain. I could not move nor had any feeling on the left side of my body from mid back down my left leg at all. Only once I came out of it because hubby...the one that is very good with people...was loosing his temper. It takes a whole lot for him to loose his temper with people. They told him nothing was broken. But when they sent me in for xrays and a MRI, after he made them pay attention.... found my back and hip was broken, among other problems.

They would of made him bring me home... who knows how.. if he did not make them pay attention. Because there was no way for him to pick me up and no way I could even move.

I know why.. because of my medical insurance.

I know this is thread drift...but that hospital is a dangerous joke.

I know there are major problems with the US medical system. Heck.. only one Doc in this whole area..within an hours drive will take my Military medical insurance. Why..because they do not pay enough. Once reason I can't get good care. Sigh ~~~

Susanne you are lucky to be near or know of good Doc.

For me it is not a We or they mentality....... it is the shear numbers of people freeloading on an already loaded system in some areas. Like I said before... much of what I spoke of is in certain areas of the US for ...now. And unless you have dealt with the problem first hand..it is hard to imagine.

I help people....again as I said before. Elders mostly because they have no one.... but what I do know...is the US can't save the world...we can't afford to give every tom, dick or harry a free ride. US is not paved in gold... but on the backs and taxes of those who are legally there.

Many can't afford to give any more in taxes or other wise because of those expecting a free ride. There is not one good reason why they should have too.

There is a jail here... and yes.. I have in roads because of Hubby's father. One jail alone is forking out $395,000 a month to house Illegal bad people. Instead of us having to pay for said illegal bad people...when we have enough of our own... why doesn't the US just ship them back when they came from?

We do that with anyone other country in the world...why not with mexicans?

If the mexicans came in legally...I doubt anyone including me, would have any issues with it. Other countries have to come in the Legal way....or they get shipped home.

But again...it is the shear number of freeloaders coming in, they are taking jobs..and it has nothing to do with the illegals being scapgoats... it is just the facts for those having to deal with it.

I have family living in Canada and they are not having to deal with what the US is in this matter. Hubby has family in Alberta and mine in Nova Scotia.

But I have talked with both sides and even they admit Canada could not better handle what is going on down here if they had to take in 1 million plus people that expect a free ride. Is more likely the whole system would colapse.

Here is what I would love to see happen.

That if all other countries must follow the immigration rules, that should go for Mexico. Mexico is not the most poor country in the world nor are they more special.

They should not be demanding we give them states.

They should not be demanding we change the languge to spanish.

They should not be marching in the streets saying they are the only ones that "made" America. (because they are not.... the Irish.....and many more helped make this country....just wasn't the mexicans)

Marching in the streets waving the mexcian flag...saying Viva Mexico... all the while most aren't legal.

They should not demand to have free housing, medical, drivers licences..when they can't even read english, food, school and so on....if they have not gone through the proper legal system to get their green cards.

Many work under the table pay no taxes and get away with things no one else does.... all because they are mexican.

Do I hate mexicans? May seem like it but that is not the case. I just don't like the freeloaders.

And yes... I would like the empolyers using the illegals get tagged and tagged hard. But what kind of message does the state send out...when they build buildings for the illegals to go to get work? What I am seeing is WA & OR is saying this kind of behavior is ok. And until the states follow the rules nothing is going to change.

Even on the News..the illegals...saying they have no fear the US will send them home.

The American born Elders will not get the help they need... working family that can't afford health insurance will not get help. They are being pushed even more to the side.

It is a bloomin mess out there and only going to get worse.

Oh MY GOD! Was you in DeRidder, LA.? I got treated the same way.