Let's say I break into your house

[TriggynBluenDaisy Too]

...

WOW are you wrong about me ... and Canada.

But I give up, you can't educate the ignorant.

Y'all have fun with your recession while I roll around in my oil revenues.

You're absolutley right Jenn and your comments make for an outstanding example.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Not "only in America"

(Unless Blair signed something we do not know about before he left and England is now a state???)

We have as much if not more problem with illegal immigrants and we have almost NO restrictions on legal immigrants- it is not as if it is hard to get into England or to stay here- unless you really ARE a refugee form violence, then we send you back out of principle, it would seem.

If you are e terrorist (no, sorry, if you are a Muslim terrorist ) we take months and months, even years to get up the courage to ask you politely to leave.

In the case of the suicide bombers of London I would have sent them away, and all their immediate family, and allowed the family back in when they had PROVED they know nothing of their children's activities.

I do not want to see women with only their eyes showing in shopping queues speaking in my country in a foreign language, knowing they are sending their children to my schools and spreading their rubbish attitudes.

I do not want to be elbowed out of the way by people yabbering in Polish.

I just wish people would wake up to the damage being done.

But they will not, the vocal minority will rule as usual.

 

[stormy]

If anyone has any reasonable answer to the problem of illegal immigration please present it. There would not be such a large share of illegals in this country if they were not being offered jobs, in fact if all the illegal immigrants left today our food supply would be in serious danger, they are the main work force for farms, slaughter plants and fruit and vegetable producers nation wide and to our own shame the reason these jobs are so readily available is because so many of the unemployed and welfare supported individuals here don't feel they should have to do such hard and dirty work. I sure don't know what the answer is but I don't think a many miles long fence is it.....reforming the system for recieving work visas would be a big step in the right direction.

And I will also say I have seen the terrible, hopeless poverty many of these people live in and if I lived in it had a famiy and children to support and saw a chance to put my hands to work to give them an opportunity at life I sure as heck would climb even the tallest fence to do it!

 

[Minimor]

Gee, I guess I am not in the loop....I didn't know Canada was allowing illegal immigrants into the country and giving them free health care and free schooling. I believe that illegal immigrants are a problem more on the west coast (for one place) and I know that if a couple comes here & has a baby while in this country that baby is then entitled to all the rights of any Canadian citizen/permanent resident, but I didn't realize that we were giving free health care to any and all that might decide to sneak into the country and stay here

Anyone wanting to immigrate to canada legally has to jump through hoops & pay the right amount of money to get into the country...and there have been a number of deserving (IMO--not that I know them personally, but I know their stories) individuals that have been deported in the recent past--so no, Canada doesn't take anyone & everyone.

A local processing plant is bringing in workers from several other countries--I'm not sure if they are bring them in on work visas or if the people are actually getting landed immigrant status, but they are coming in legally. That's totally different from the topic here--illegal immigrants. In this area these workers are readily accepted--why wouldn't they be? They're legal. They're filling jobs that no one else wants, they're meeting the criteria for "free" health care, "free schooling" for their children...I can assure you they would not be readily accepted in the community if they were sneaking into the country illegally and not contributing to all the "free" benefits that Canadian residents enjoy.

At one point there was someone living in this area that did not have the proper paperwork to be working in Canada. He was working--putting on clinics and collecting his fees in cash (US currency only...sadly for him he actually was handing out printed advertising all over town!)--and as he was living with his girlfriend, a Canadian citizen, while he was here he had somehow provided information that allowed him free health care...and he bragged about it. When someone reported him to Canadian immigration authorities he was booted out of the country very quickly.

So no, Canada doesn't welcome everyone!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

If anyone has any reasonable answer to the problem of illegal immigration please present it. There would not be such a large share of illegals in this country if they were not being offered jobs, in fact if all the illegal immigrants left today our food supply would be in serious danger, they are the main work force for farms, slaughter plants and fruit and vegetable producers nation wide and to our own shame the reason these jobs are so readily available is because so many of the unemployed and welfare supported individuals here don't feel they should have to do such hard and dirty work. I sure don't know what the answer is but I don't think a many miles long fence is it.....reforming the system for recieving work visas would be a big step in the right direction.

And I will also say I have seen the terrible, hopeless poverty many of these people live in and if I lived in it had a famiy and children to support and saw a chance to put my hands to work to give them an opportunity at life I sure as heck would climb even the tallest fence to do it!

I totally agree and OMG what would we do if we didnt have them here in our country we might have to actually blame our problems on *gasp* OURSELVES- sorry illegal or not I have yet to see a group of Americans standing on the corner all day in the hope of doing someones grunt work for very little pay and of course then grateful that they got to work ALL DAY LONG doing stuff the "americans" didnt want to do and being happy with a measly 25 bucks for a full day of hard labor often 12+ hours...

taking our jobs away I dont think so .... taking over and filling in the gap for jobs others feel above is more like it.

 

[Robin1]

QUOTE(stormy @ Nov 10 2007, 12:46 PM)
If anyone has any reasonable answer to the problem of illegal immigration please present it. There would not be such a large share of illegals in this country if they were not being offered jobs, in fact if all the illegal immigrants left today our food supply would be in serious danger, they are the main work force for farms, slaughter plants and fruit and vegetable producers nation wide and to our own shame the reason these jobs are so readily available is because so many of the unemployed and welfare supported individuals here don't feel they should have to do such hard and dirty work. I sure don't know what the answer is but I don't think a many miles long fence is it.....reforming the system for recieving work visas would be a big step in the right direction.

And I will also say I have seen the terrible, hopeless poverty many of these people live in and if I lived in it had a famiy and children to support and saw a chance to put my hands to work to give them an opportunity at life I sure as heck would climb even the tallest fence to do it!

I totally agree and OMG what would we do if we didnt have them here in our country we might have to actually blame our problems on *gasp* OURSELVES- sorry illegal or not I have yet to see a group of Americans standing on the corner all day in the hope of doing someones grunt work for very little pay and of course then grateful that they got to work ALL DAY LONG doing stuff the "americans" didnt want to do and being happy with a measly 25 bucks for a full day of hard labor often 12+ hours...

taking our jobs away I dont think so .... taking over and filling in the gap for jobs others feel above is more like it.

Sorry, not "totally" in agreement here. I live in Arizona and we have a MAJOR problem.

There was a potato chip factory that fired 500 illegal "immigrants" and had over 2,000 legal citizens standing in line to get an application.

As for those standing on corners looking for work, have you ever stopped and asked them to do something for you? Before it became illegal to hire someone who is illegal, we used to "try" and hire them when we could to do things like mow the lawn and trim the hedges. They would look at the yard (it takes me an hour to mow it and I am SLOW) and they wouldn't do it for anything less than $40 and that was if you talked them down.

To add to this, we went a very long time around here without losing any Police officers to violence, in the last couple of years out of the 7 Officers killed in the line of duty, 6 were killed by illegal immigrants.

Robin

 

[Jill]

Heck if Hillary Care becomes a reality, where will all those poor Canadians go when they need serious health care.

How true!!!! And, when I think harder about just how true, it wipes the smirk right off my face.

 

[J.E.F.]

Here in my area, wages have droped from a living wage to minium wage, Meat processing plants have lowered the wages from $12.00 to $5.45 an hour. Why because illigal aliens have moved in and will work for that wage. Construction jobs have also been taken by illigal aliens, lowering the wages to mimium wage. Road construction jobs are all taken by illigal aliens most dont even speak enough english to direct traffic. We have several trailer manufactors in this area, wages for welders have droped from 20. per hour to 5.45 an hour. Jobs that people want do?? The facts are that legal citizens cant afford the cut in pay to do the jobs. If the Illigal aliens were not here taking the jobs and lowering the wages we could have fewer people on welfare and the other programs. I am tired of hearing "THEY ARE ONLY DOING THE JOBS NO AMERICAN CITIZEN WILL DO" when the facts are that no one can work for those wages and support a family. Your Horse trailer was most likely built by illigal aliens, did it cost you any less? your fenceing was most likely built by illigal aliens did you get it cheaper? Cheap labor lowers the ecomony, not betters it. With less money in the cash flow the higher the prices. Oh yes and dont forget that the largest portion of the Mexican government economy is the money sent there by the illigal aliens. It is a LARGER part than their oil exports.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH LEGAL IMMIGRATION!!!! And the only way to stop illigal immigration is to fine the owners of any buisness that hires them. These fines should be so high that it could break the company! This should include the the full board members of any cooperation as well for they are running the company.

Please dont think that things will not get done by legal citizens if we send the illigal aliens back and fine the companies so they will not hire them. Identy theft is growing very rapidly why because illigal aliens are useing someone elses SS # Where do you think they get those. illigal documents can and are sold daily for thousands of dollars. The illigal drugs are carried in by illigal aliens not just a few ounces but 100 s of pounds a day.

More than 50% of the produce in stores are imported, it is cheaper to import it than raise it here. That is why so many family farms are in bankruptcy. And why so many of the children who were raised on farms go into other jobs.

The reason most manufactoring jobs have been outsourced to other countries, Why, because of cheap labor. If these jobs are in Mexico and other countries Why is their life so bad there, because of the wages. They cant work for the car factories and textile factories they cant make a living on what is paid, so they come here for better wages even if it is 5.45 an hour. add that to that the food stamps, tax credits, rent assistance, medical benifits, and the utility assistance, they get wages in excess of 35.00 an hour most of it from your pocket in the form of taxes.

We struggle with Legal citizens getting child medical care for the poor and dont even think of the free medical for all illigal aliens.

These are just a few points in this battle. I didnt even mention the lack of patroitism shown by those who choose to support the illigal aliens.

 

[Izzyantheminis]

But without all those illegal aliens ruining the country who would fill the role of America's favorite scapegoat ???

 

[misfitminis]

I agree with your post. There is a legal way to immigrate to the USA. However we have a larger and silent problem [SIZE=36pt]:import of products from China.[/SIZE] It is really tough to find products made in the USA. This is going to damage our economy more than illegal immigrates. Please during holiday shopping try to not buy from China. The state of Maine is very self sufficient. More states need to work towards this goal or at least import from another state.

 

[Shari]

I can just talk about where I live. You say Mexcians do all the farm work?

Here is what I have seen...

3 years I have been here in this state.... the strawberry fields are left rotting....fruit orchards are left rotting and from talking with one of the folks...it has been like this for a long time. So the illegals are picking food for the country... ah nope..not here.

So where are they. Both Seattle and Portland have a program for illegals.. no green cards needed. They have buildings these folks can go to, to get higher paying jobs..and that is where they are now..not the fields.

One of the jobs is working for contractors. The illegals get $12.00 to $25.00 an hour under the table. So they do not pay taxes. You know....remember how they break into our house.

I know some people that are construction workers....good people...born here..pay their taxes and so on. Who can't find jobs because the illegals are working for much less.

So anyone who tells me the illegals are only doing work others do not want to do.....sorry but that is so far from the truth it isn't funny.

The two farms I buy produce from... one has no mexicans illegal or other wise working on them...the other only have 2 green cards out of the 30 people they have working there. Others are locals, american born white and black folks.

Most of our older teen children have to start out at min wages which is about $7.15 an hour. Some work very hard. But even at min wage, a lot of places will not hire teens that do not have a lot of experance.

Or people born here fall on hard times and are unable to get help to get back on their feet.

Why is it.. illegals can march into this country and get better paying jobs than people born here?

Why are they so specical that the gov seems to think everything should be in spanish now, or that the illegals get free health care when America born Elders can't afford to go see the Doc or hard working american borns die of cancer because they have no health insurance?

Why do the illegals get free health, schooling, drivers licences...all on our tax dollars? When the ones paying the taxes can't get help.

I help with the food bank and here is what I see. Elders that really need our help... they need food and medical. Illegals come in and get free hand outs because no one gets turned away. And those elders..... they are left with one meal a day. I wish I could help and give more but I can't afford too. Those illegals have no rights to come here and demand and expect food for free....while others go hungry.

I have friends that go to central mexico and live their half of the year. They are no rich at all. One would be suprised that many that come to the US illegally are not as bad off as we are made to think.

But they come here because they have made us to believe they deserve better than anyone else on the planet. They come because they get free food, schooling, housing, medical and so on. While in their home country they would have to pay....just like we have to in this country.

They come to this country demanding that we feed, house, medical, teach their kids and clothes them. While most send their money back to mexico and do not pay taxes. They demand we speak their language....which I have a major problem with. All my family had to learn english to become part of this country.

They come in and many...yes... many demand we give them CA, NM, and AZ....because they should be part of mexico. Don't believe...do some internet searching.

This has gotten out of hand.

 

[StellaLenoir]

I know some people that are construction workers....good people...born here..pay their taxes and so on. Who can't find jobs because the illegals are working for much less.

This is what my husband goes through.!!!!

He now has his own buisiness, and will NOT hire illegals. His bids for jobs are higher, because his guys pay taxes.

In our market, most homes are built by illegals, and built WRONG they do not care about thier work, (of cousre not all) the codes are not followed, and it makes me so mad!!

 

[kaykay]

why does jenn's name say unregistered?

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this issue. My son is thinking about signing up to protect the border in Mexico for one year after he finishes ARMY AIT. Scares the crap out of me

 

[tigeresss]

Wow I am very embarrassed for a few people who have replied to this thread and have showed their disgusting personalities.

Oh and for the record I would take Canadian healthcare over US healthcare ANY day. Before you ask, yes I have experienced BOTH systems.

I have mixed feelings about these issues and have zero problems with people coming through the legal way. Where we are even the homeless people will not do certain jobs, i.e. harvesting, and those dirty "cleaner" jobs, assembly lines etc. So immigrants (both legal and illegal) do these jobs, they are paid properly, and they do a job that NOBODY else will do. I'd LOVE to see the US or Canada without all of those immigrants doing our "dirty work" for us.

I don't have much of an opinion on illegal immigrants because I haven't decided where I stand on the matter yet. However, I would say the illegal immigrant problem is MUCH worse in the UK than it is in the USA.

Not to mention the fact that Canadians and US citizens are all the product of mass immigration.

That being said I know MANY legal immigrants, in fact where I live is considered to be more British than England. Haha. The immigrants I know (from all over the globe) are all working in good jobs, pay their taxes and contribute to society in a positive way.

 

[babygoose]

I agree totally with the OP. I live and work very close to the border. My job takes me along the border. We have occasional safety talks from Border Patrol (BP) people and a large percentage of people coming across the border these days are not poor people looking for work to support their families. They are drug dealers, gang members, convicted sex offenders, muderers and rapists. We are no longer allowed to work alone within 30 miles of the border. We have to go in pairs and check in on the radio every hour. Before the national guard was assigned to the border, the amount of people coming across our area was mind boggling. They would stage at a little town along the border on the Mexico side. The town was set up to assist people coming across. They would bus them there in busses with the windows darkenend so the BP can't see how many are on there. They have food and water vendors set up to supply the people getting ready to cross. They all just sit and wait until dark and then flood across in so many numbers that the BP could not catch them all. This little town was recently torn down as a result if talks between Mexico and US officials. But it doesn't stop. The Mexican government assists in people getting across along with Mexican law enforcement.

Ranchers that live on the border have all kinds of trouble with illegals. They have stuff stolen and destroyed. People are not coming across the border to work on these ranches to support their families anymore. They want a free handout. They want to get in so they can collect all the welfare etc. One rancher stopped giving them water etc, and the next thing they know word got out. They came home to find their house vandalized and their dogs killed and hung up on the porch. These migrants break livestock waters and leave water running to be wasted in a desert where water is precious. A coworker and I came across illegals one day on the job and luckily they took off when they saw us. We were scared because we were two women against five men otherwise. A few years back a rancher had a truck stolen at gunpoint. One illegal jumped out and put a gun to his head and told him to get out. Then five more came out of the bushes and jumped in the truck and took off. What if that would have been the ranchers wife? What would they have done to her?

I think there is still the impression that these illegals are all poor suffering people just desperate to make a living. Some still are. But many of those people are coming across for a handout, not work. This is proven by the fact that the farmers and ranchers that use to hire these people, pay them, and the workers would go back to Mexico with the money and come back the next year. Now ranchers are afraid of these people. They don't want to work anymore.

Yes things are bad in Mexico. Many people live in poverty there. I have nothing against someone coming here to work hard and support a family, either here or in Mexico. But many don't.

I have no problem with cultural diversity. I live in New Mexico and there is no shortage of cultural diversity here. We have native american tribes, we have old spanish families that have been here for many many years. But I think that people need to work for a living. I also don't like the language thing. Learn english if you want to live here. I don't care if you keep your spanish language, teach it to your kids and keep the culture. But don't force everybody else to speak Spanish and expect special treatment. Come to the US legally, live by the laws here, work to support your family, and I am okay with that.

 

[joylee123]

In Canada, when our doorbell is rung by immigrants, we open it and welcome them in with open arms.

That way, they don't have to break in.

We have programs to help them adjust to their new home, and health care is free for everyone. Education is free until post-secondary. We'll be glad to help you find employment.

We have two official languages already and we welcome those who speak languages other than English and French.

We celebrate our differences and learn about each other's cultures in our schools and through wonderful, colourful ethnic celebrations.

Is it any wonder the U.S. is currently neck-deep in a recession while Canada becomes stronger and stronger? Not really.

[SIZE=12pt]And look how the crime rate has risen and all the other problems Canada has that it didn't when I was a kid

[/SIZE]

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

As for those standing on corners looking for work, have you ever stopped and asked them to do something for you? Before it became illegal to hire someone who is illegal, we used to "try" and hire them when we could to do things like mow the lawn and trim the hedges. They would look at the yard (it takes me an hour to mow it and I am SLOW) and they wouldn't do it for anything less than $40 and that was if you talked them down.

To add to this, we went a very long time around here without losing any Police officers to violence, in the last couple of years out of the 7 Officers killed in the line of duty, 6 were killed by illegal immigrants.

Robin

I am not negating your experience it is your experience I can tell you mine is very different. Yes I have had them do work for me and they worked hard and were grateful for the work doing things I sure couldnt get anyone to do when trying to hire thru normal ways- paper, employment agencies, job services ...

I do wonder though who we will blame everything on if tomorrow with the wave of a magic wand and make this problem go away.

I grew up in So Cal so this is not an issue that didnt effect our area or me personally - I do know people who have come here illegally some have been here for years and years- some are great people some not so much no different then any one else or any other group- there is no easy answer especially knowing the life they came from and the poverty they are trying to leave. Do some abuse the systems put in place to help - yep but then again I know plenty of Americans that are more then adept at that as well

I dont have the answer but I do think that making it a us against them, a good vs bad type of thing can and will only make things worse but that is JMO and I totally understand that many on both sides of this issue are very passionate

 

[PaintedPromiseRanch]

I also don't like the language thing. Learn english if you want to live here. I don't care if you keep your spanish language, teach it to your kids and keep the culture. But don't force everybody else to speak Spanish and expect special treatment. Come to the US legally, live by the laws here, work to support your family, and I am okay with that.

that's what my mom and grandma had to do when they immigrated here from europe

 

[tagalong]

You'll have to excuse Jenn. She lives in BF Alberta and only got to the big city in her college days.

She's totally bought into the propaganda that most Canadian youth are fed and I'm sure no one will change her mind. If she ever has to become a part of the real world though it will certainly be an eye opener.

Heck if Hillary Care becomes a reality, where will all those poor Canadians go when they need serious health care.

Good thread Shari, it certainly makes one think. I have no problem with those willing to share the load and assimalate, but the rest are surely welcome to populate Canada. Too bad they won't, the living and perks are too good here.

Is this thread really turning into a bash Canada or the US thing?

That was not the OP's intent.

And there is no reason for anyone to be rude. BF, Alberta, is not on any map, by the way. No more than BF, Alabama, would be.

Triggy - I grew up in Canada.

In big cities.

And yet I was not "fed the propaganda" that you state is the norm for "most Canadian youth".

Wow.

Nor was anyone else I know.

Oh - I live in the real world.

And my eyes are open, thanks.

Onw can disagree with a post without resorting to ridicule and sneering. On both sides.

Canada does has immigration problems. Just not as bad as the US.

And as my nest egg has been wiped out from medical bills here - I have danced both sides of the health care issue and been involved with both sytems - or the lack thereof. And thus I know that the Canadian one worked better for me - even with all its faults. Just my personal experience - and no "propaganda" involved. Not every "poor Canadian" has to go south for "serious health care" as you imply - yet that has almost achieved Urban Legend status....

And the living and perks are good in Canada, too. Different strokes for different folks.

Both Canada and the US are always in the Top Ten countries in the world as rated by standard of living, economy etc. - so I am not sure why one would bother arguing about it. Currently the CAN $ is higher than the US $... as it used to be. But that can always change - and likely will - as it has in he past.

Whatever.

Back on topic.

I am here on a work visa. Legally. And yet in the past I have been treated like dirt by INS/Homeland Security officials... yelled at, sneered at. But that seems to be the modus operandi for some of them so I just nod and smile. Never let them see you sweat...

But when I saw one officer screaming in the face of a recently widowed, very elderly Asian man who was moving from Vancouver to Seattle to spend the few years he had left living with his great-grandson's family so they could care for him... when I saw that officer get red in the face, pound on the counter and howl at the confused old gentleman - HOW DO I KNOW YOU ARE NOT A SECURITY RISK? WHY SHOULD I ALLOW YOU INTO MY COUNTRY!!??!!!

There was an audibile hisssssss from the crowd in that room. One can do one's job without being a bully... and evaluating each situation on its own merit. Some of the sh... stuff I have seen being done... well, suffice to say it was totallly inappropriate and unnecssary.

But after all the flaming hoops I have had to jump through - and all the sacrifices I have made - it infuriates me to see any mention of Illegals being given amnesty - or even a "fast track" to a green card - or even skipping that and simply letting them start the citizenship process.

That is a major slap in the face and kick in the teeth for those of us who have done everything the Right Way... all the miles of paperwork, the rude officials... yet we did everything as requested, in the right order, in the right way. For what??!!?? Only to have it hinted that illegals will be given precedence??? And that they are more valued in some way?

That is very frustrating...

 

[rockin r]

I live in Oklahoma. Just recently they passed a law concerning illegals's. Quite the topic around here! But you got to start somewhere. I know alot of poor oklahomans who can not get help for their families, but have seen many times illegals get it. I moved here from Fla. 6 yrs ago. I lived there since 1968. I know that places change. I lived in Ft. Lauderdale. It has become a hodge-podge of languages, and certainly English is not one of them. 80% of the street signs are in Cuban, almost all of the convience stores are Iranian owned and operated, if you are burglarized most likely by an illegal there is nothing to be done about it. I go back every year to see my son, D-I-L and grand-daughter, this past Feb. I was in the Ft. Laud airport and after 40 mins. of trying to get thru the airport I NEVER ONCE HEARD ANYONE SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!! I left that once wonderful state that I called my home for 33 years because of this. And Miami is a lost cause. Fla. is no longer a state, it is a country within many countries. To me this is a very, very sad position the US is in.