Let's say I break into your house

[TriggynBluenDaisy Too]

Is this thread really turning into a bash Canada or the US thing?

Not until Jenn's comments--as always she takes her trollish digs and exits, expecting no one to challenge a thing she says. This wasn't the first time, she has a stellar history of it.

That was not the OP's intent.

And there is no reason for anyone to be rude. BF, Alberta, is not on any map, by the way. No more than BF, Alabama, would be. Oh for crap sake, it's a joke lighten up.

Triggy - I grew up in Canada.

In big cities.

And yet I was not "fed the propaganda" that you state is the norm for "most Canadian youth".

Well maybe because you did live in the city and actually experienced a balanced point of view from your peers.

Wow.

Nor was anyone else I know.

Oh - I live in the real world.

And my eyes are open, thanks.

Onw can disagree with a post without resorting to ridicule and sneering. On both sides.

I just love comments like this from those who truly don't see their own comments ever as being full of ridicule and sneering. Of course like always you will swear to heaven and earth that nothing you've ever said has been offensive in any way. Pot, kettle, black, isn't that your usual retort?

Canada does has immigration problems. Just not as bad as the US.

Yet.

Give it time and when you are in the same boat then you'll understand why so many here are as fed up with the whole thing as they are. So as for your eyes being open, I don't think so.

I often wonder when someone is so pro Canada, why are they here? I think Canada is a lovely place but it's certainly not a place I'd willingly choose to live if I weren't born there.

...

 

[Buckskin gal]

Where the finger really needs to be pointed is at all the emplyers who are hiring these illegal immigrants. Yes, they come because they will be hired for less money than what an American citizen would expect to be paid. I have seen wealthy Americans get richer with hiring the illegals. They are the ones who are screaming "they are only doing jobs that Americans won't do!!!!" It is all about getting the cheap labor that illegals provide and since the rich employers pay them only peanuts the rest of us have to help pay for the medical, food stamps etc. that they need. So true, that good jobs such as construction have been taken over by the illegals who will work for less, leaving the American people without jobs. And it is also true that drug pushers are sneaking into this country and creating more problems than our law enforcement can handle. Build the wall, if that is what is needed.

Mary

 

[LowriseMinis]

.I often wonder when someone is so pro Canada, why are they here?

I read threads like this and I often wonder the same thing.

 

[Danielle_E.]

Wow

, right to the gutter this has gone by some comments but I looked at one name and I wasn't surprised one bit, it's the usual ......

Many do come into Canada illegally but our system is very lenient and once they are in and found out then they plead that if they are returned to their country they will be tortured, or killed, etc. It takes years and years and taxpayers $$ to review these cases and even when immigration comes back with deportation orders most just vanish before this can happen. There are problems like this in every country, especially because the birth rates have dropped so more immigrants, legal or illegal are needed. Populations are aging faster than births....

With regads to the comments about health care in Canada, I will stick with ours thank you very much. I know many of you despise Michael Moore but I find his documentaries interesting and thought provoking, especially the one I just viewed last week "Sicko", it was a real eye opener. England also has a wonderful health care system in place as many other countries as well. I know many of you think if you have this kind of health care it automatically means socialism across the board but one gentleman interviewed in sicko from the U.K. had it down pat, what an intelligent gentleman that is. I know those of you who reside in the U.S. love your country and so you should but please don't think we don't love ours and all want to move to the U.S. That is just not true and I am very happy to be Canadian and remain right where I am, thank you very much. I loved to travel in the past, it always made me appreciate my country the more and I am sure you all feel the same as well which is the way it should be.

 

[Jesper]

it's the same problem all over the world.

over here they want to give houses to families that have already had their immigration application denied, houses? I can hardly find a small apartment I can afford. those people should be sent back.

those that come legally are fine

but again, I have worked illegally in the US, I would have preferred it had been legally but that is almost impossible, it is quite a bit easier to get into Denmark then into the US.

a way to solve this problem would be to help people do it right, so they can pay taxes, and what else is needed, have them get the same pay as americans would work for, then and ship people back, huge fines for companies hiring illegals.

then weed out the rotten apples, do you want to pay $15/hour for a cruddy quality or $5/hour for good quality labor? (lets say a construction worker) ??

anyways, I have been on both sides of the fence, and if it was possible within reason to immigrate to the US then I would consider it but I would have to think it through big time before doing so...

 

[Danielle_E.]

Hi Jesper

nice to see you again.

I wouldn't worry about it Jesper, about you working in the U.S. As I recall you weren't there for an extended period of time. I believe most here are speaking about those that go into the U.S. and stay for an extended period of time....

In sicko there is a woman from the U.S. who was or still is coming over to Canada to get her prescriptions filled out and to be seen by a clinic here in order to do so. She basically does this by saying she is this gentleman over in Windsor's common law wife. I know that many elderly from the U.S. come over on day trips in order to be able to afford their medication, it's quite sad really. For me if you don't have your health you have nothing in life and I would never deny people the basic health care. I know that someone earlier posted a family incident and was irrate about illegal immigrants getting health care which was bogging down the wait time. You know if I was at emergency at a hospital and someone who was an illegal immigrant came in and was in need of urgent medical attention more than I, I wouldn't mind one bit. I would never deny anyone urgent medical care, no matter who they were or where they were from. Usually hospital emergency wards take the most critical cases first and then everyone else is first come first served with non life threatening symptoms or emergencies, at least here it is.

 

[Shari]

The ER .....at least where my Mom went... were bogged down with illegals...that should of just went to their own doctors. Except they do not have one, because remember...they broke into our house. So they take them in order as they come in..from a hang nail to needing cough meds...nothing they should be in an ER for.

That hospital and many like it... take patients first come,, first dealt with. Doesn't matter if your arm is detatched from its body...or having a massive stroke. The real emergancys are not dealt with first.

Sorry but I stand by what I say. If they are not here legally...they should not get free care...and free care at the expense of people that were born here, paying taxes and so on, that are having real emgerancys.

The other problem ...as I have said before. Is there are many elders...born here, pay taxes that can't afford health care, let alone meds they need. DR will not even seen them if they can't pay. Yet.. Illegals get free care. Is wrong on so many levels.

I guess you have to live witih this problem every day to understand.

And with the illegals..we are not talking about 1 or 2 people...or even a hundred. Try to wrap your mind around 1 MILLION... "plus" illegals looking for free hand out. (and I am not talking about the rare few that come through legally)

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Hmm there is a law i thought everywhere at least in every state I have ever been in where ER's do have to take the most serious of injuries first and most I have been to do so I have never seen then leave someone with a gun shot or stab wound sitting there in the waiting room while someone with a hangnail was seen- but that has been my experience

there have been times I have been in there for a asthma attack something they usually walk me right thru for with no waiting - but sometimes i have sat there having a very hard time breathing for 45 min to over an hour waiting cause ohters more critical came in of course.. at that moment when i am gasping for every breath I am sure I am more critical but I dont have a medical degree or cant see why everyone else is there

 

[Shari]

Then Lisa...you are very lucky. My parents retired to CA because the weather is nicer than it is in NE. And they are not the only ones I know, that are having those kinds of problems down there.

The DR and ER nurses were the ones telling my Dad that they were so full up of Illegals..that my Mom had to be lifelighted to another hospital that wasn't. They admited that they dare not turn any of them away. Though did not tell my Dad why. Shrug... I can only go by what I know.

I know other parts of the country do not have those problems..... yet.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Shari, IMO your original post was right 'on point', as were your others on this thread-and you are ABSOLUTELY correct in standing by them.

I have lived relatively near the Mexican border for a LOT of years; I have seen this situation 'up close', from several perspectives, and how things have changed, mostly for the MUCH WORSE,over time...I will only add that babygoose and Robin1 know whereof they speak.

Margo

 

[Buckskin gal]

Shari, You are right on as far as what I have seen and experienced myself. I become more discouraged all the time about paying for illegals health care because it is difficult enough to help pay for the Americans who won't pay for their health care. Both my hubby and I pay extremly high health insurance rates because of the costs of doctors and hospitals keep going up and up and a lot of it is we get charged more to cover the costs of those who don't pay!!

We are on a fixed income and yet have no choice but to keep paying the higher rates for our health coverage....it means giving up more all the time to pay for those who won't pay and this does anger and frustrate me. And what makes me even more upset is to see how those who don't pay for their medical needs are able to spend money on luxury items. .....yes, even horses. More and more I see how the middle class are slowly becoming the next lower class just because we have to pay for those who don't pay

If each person paid for their own needs, many of us would be better off. Mary

 

[Danielle_E.]

I guess I am saying that there are problems with all systems. As i said we have Americans coming into our country and using our system here, we have illegal immigrants doing the same, we also have immigrants that don't have landed status, will use our system for free health care when needed but go back to their homeland for the rest of the year and not pay taxes here. There are no quick fixes but I refuse to deny ANYONE the basics in life, and healtcare is one of them. And if my tax dollars has to help those people, that's fine by me. We are fortunate, us in the Americas to have such a high standard of living. That is where we, the Canadians get the label that we are "more tolerant" Here we have the "WE" mentality, opposed to the "ME" mentality and I think it's because Canada is such a "meltingpot" of various ethnic people.

 

[heart k ranch]

I for one don't like working my butt off and get over a hundred dollars taken out of it because of illegals!

2. Then worry about driving because if they hit me they won't have insurance to pay for my truck.

3. Then if I have to go to the doctor I have to pay and the illegals go in for free!!!

4. Getting people that walk into work asking me if I talk spanish. NO.

5. This is what tickES ME OFF THE MOST! Is when they have the Mexican flag up everywhere and them making fun of the US!

6. Them lowering wages because the illegals do it for almost nothing.

All I have to say is come in and do it legally. Pull your own weight and don't make others pull it for you!

Sorry for the rant!

 

[susanne]

Overheard on a late night talk show monologue:

It's Columbus Day...or as the Native Americans call it, Illegal Immigration Day.

........................

This is not to say there is no problem with our immigration system, but when we scream about illegal aliens taking jobs, we must also scream about the employers who do not want to pay a living wage, payroll taxes or insurance needed to hire an American citizen. They are the ones creating the loud sucking sounds of an economic vaccuum for the sake of profits. It is not that people are not willing to work...it is that they are not willing to"bend over."

...........................

As for Emergency Rooms...

I can only speak for Portland, Oregon, hospitals, but these Emergency Rooms ALL function on a triage system. Patients are seen in order of severity of injury/illness.

There are just as many legal US citizens who use the ER for non-emergent illnesses because they can't afford to see a regular doctor, or would have to wait three weeks to get in.

If you need to verify these facts, I can put you in contact with a number of ER employees...doctors, nurses administrators and other staff.

 

[tagalong]

Oh for crap sake, it's a joke lighten up.

Ummmmm.... I was snarking about BF, Alabama, too... for the record. Thus I do not need to "lighten up" - I already was!

Well maybe because you did live in the city and actually experienced a balanced point of view from your peers.

Well, then I should have seen more of this "propaganda"... especially growing up in Montreal... *shrug* I am not really sure why you are using the term "propaganda", actually....

I just love comments like this from those who truly don't see their own comments ever as being full of ridicule and sneering. Of course like always you will swear to heaven and earth that nothing you've ever said has been offensive in any way. Pot, kettle, black, isn't that your usual retort?

And again - why the personal bashing? Yes - I can get sarcastic just as you can - but where did I say Pot. Kettle. Black this time?? I have used it in the past where it applied. And only then.

Give it time and when you are in the same boat then you'll understand why so many here are as fed up with the whole thing as they are. So as for your eyes being open, I don't think so.

Well, if you had actually read my post instead of jumping all over it - you would have seen that I am frustrated/fed up with the illegal aliens situation as well. So yes, my eyes are open. On both sides of the border. To all the problems that abound...

I often wonder when someone is so pro Canada, why are they here? I think Canada is a lovely place but it's certainly not a place I'd willingly choose to live if I weren't born there.
****

I read threads like this and I often wonder the same thing.

Those comments make me a bit sad... wow.

It is human nature to be supportive of where you were born, where you grew up - and where your roots are. You do that. I do that. One can do that and still be appreciative of one's current situation.... and yet have a view from the other side of the "fence" as well...

When it is suggested that uttering positive comments of any kind about another place means one should be held in suspicion/sneered at - or should just Go Away...

Silly me - I was offered a JOB here - in an area that I have always visited and loved (did not take the job from anyone - and it will not exist when I leave) and accepted it. I have gone through all the heartbreaking hassles, expense and LEGAL paperwork etc., pay my taxes, obey the law, do many hours of volunteer work a week and carry on like all my American friends and love my life (minus the health care issues) ... I find it unsettling that some can sit in judgement of that and decide that I am"unworthy" of being here. Or that I am only entitled to an opinion if it is the "right" one.... if you moved elsewhere - would you not defend/support the US in such conversations if you had experience in that topic? Of course you would...

And if you feel the need to continue to bash - please do it by PM...

 

[Buckskin gal]

Well I can't agree that most Americans have a "me" mentality. What some of us do have is a very concerned mentality that if we take on more than our pocket books can handle we just may end up on those welfare rolls and entitlement programs which we want nothing to do with because we like independence...now if that is wrong, so be it. My hubby and I worked very hard and gave up a lot for ourselves to raise our kids without using entitlement programs ...in fact we felt very responsible for meeting our own and their needs but that is how we think it should be. The entitlement programs are give aways to many people who just don't want to meet their own needs in fact many of them drive much better vehicles than we do. I just don't like my freedoms taken away while others are being so darn dependent on the rest of us. We don't live in luxury, we are conservative and don't waste or use credit cards to get ourselves in debt..never have and never will. A lot of people could make much better choices and not have to be on welfare or entitlement programs but they don't and want the rest of us to pay their way. I would never deny someone who really needs help but too many are needy because of bad choices. JMHO Mary

I guess I am saying that there are problems with all systems. As i said we have Americans coming into our country and using our system here, we have illegal immigrants doing the same, we also have immigrants that don't have landed status, will use our system for free health care when needed but go back to their homeland for the rest of the year and not pay taxes here. There are no quick fixes but I refuse to deny ANYONE the basics in life, and healtcare is one of them. And if my tax dollars has to help those people, that's fine by me. We are fortunate, us in the Americas to have such a high standard of living. That is where we, the Canadians get the label that we are "more tolerant" Here we have the "WE" mentality, opposed to the "ME" mentality and I think it's because Canada is such a "meltingpot" of various ethnic people.

 

[Shari]

Don't go to St John's hospital. Not as much problem with the illegals filling it it up. But the ER doc there...can't be trusted.

Sent hubby home with three badly broken ribs,,,telling him he did not have broken ribs..but I knew better. Then have the head ER doc call up in a panic the next morning telling me to drive him in because they made an mistake.

Or when I came off the horse...they told hubby to take me home..but no one could move me because everytime they did I blacked out because of the pain. I could not move nor had any feeling on the left side of my body from mid back down my left leg at all. Only once I came out of it because hubby...the one that is very good with people...was loosing his temper. It takes a whole lot for him to loose his temper with people. They told him nothing was broken. But when they sent me in for xrays and a MRI, after he made them pay attention.... found my back and hip was broken, among other problems.

They would of made him bring me home... who knows how.. if he did not make them pay attention. Because there was no way for him to pick me up and no way I could even move.

I know why.. because of my medical insurance.

I know this is thread drift...but that hospital is a dangerous joke.

I know there are major problems with the US medical system. Heck.. only one Doc in this whole area..within an hours drive will take my Military medical insurance. Why..because they do not pay enough. Once reason I can't get good care. Sigh ~~~

Susanne you are lucky to be near or know of good Doc.

For me it is not a We or they mentality....... it is the shear numbers of people freeloading on an already loaded system in some areas. Like I said before... much of what I spoke of is in certain areas of the US for ...now. And unless you have dealt with the problem first hand..it is hard to imagine.

I help people....again as I said before. Elders mostly because they have no one.... but what I do know...is the US can't save the world...we can't afford to give every tom, dick or harry a free ride. US is not paved in gold... but on the backs and taxes of those who are legally there.

Many can't afford to give any more in taxes or other wise because of those expecting a free ride. There is not one good reason why they should have too.

There is a jail here... and yes.. I have in roads because of Hubby's father. One jail alone is forking out $395,000 a month to house Illegal bad people. Instead of us having to pay for said illegal bad people...when we have enough of our own... why doesn't the US just ship them back when they came from?

We do that with anyone other country in the world...why not with mexicans?

If the mexicans came in legally...I doubt anyone including me, would have any issues with it. Other countries have to come in the Legal way....or they get shipped home.

But again...it is the shear number of freeloaders coming in, they are taking jobs..and it has nothing to do with the illegals being scapgoats... it is just the facts for those having to deal with it.

I have family living in Canada and they are not having to deal with what the US is in this matter. Hubby has family in Alberta and mine in Nova Scotia.

But I have talked with both sides and even they admit Canada could not better handle what is going on down here if they had to take in 1 million plus people that expect a free ride. Is more likely the whole system would colapse.

Here is what I would love to see happen.

That if all other countries must follow the immigration rules, that should go for Mexico. Mexico is not the most poor country in the world nor are they more special.

They should not be demanding we give them states.

They should not be demanding we change the languge to spanish.

They should not be marching in the streets saying they are the only ones that "made" America. (because they are not.... the Irish.....and many more helped make this country....just wasn't the mexicans)

Marching in the streets waving the mexcian flag...saying Viva Mexico... all the while most aren't legal.

They should not demand to have free housing, medical, drivers licences..when they can't even read english, food, school and so on....if they have not gone through the proper legal system to get their green cards.

Many work under the table pay no taxes and get away with things no one else does.... all because they are mexican.

Do I hate mexicans? May seem like it but that is not the case. I just don't like the freeloaders.

And yes... I would like the empolyers using the illegals get tagged and tagged hard. But what kind of message does the state send out...when they build buildings for the illegals to go to get work? What I am seeing is WA & OR is saying this kind of behavior is ok. And until the states follow the rules nothing is going to change.

Even on the News..the illegals...saying they have no fear the US will send them home.

The American born Elders will not get the help they need... working family that can't afford health insurance will not get help. They are being pushed even more to the side.

It is a bloomin mess out there and only going to get worse.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Well said Shari and I would sure march along side of you in protesting the illegals being here. But then it won't change soom because too many well do do are benefiting the illegas being here...those who want cheap housekeepers for example.....won't pay a fair wage to an American! Mary

Don't go to St John's hospital. Not as much problem with the illegals filling it it up. But the ER doc there...can't be trusted.

Sent hubby home with three badly broken ribs,,,telling him he did not have broken ribs..but I knew better. Then have the head ER doc call up in a panic the next morning telling me to drive him in because they made an mistake.

Or when I came off the horse...they told hubby to take me home..but no one could move me because everytime they did I blacked out because of the pain. I could not move nor had any feeling on the left side of my body from mid back down my left leg at all. Only once I came out of it because hubby...the one that is very good with people...was loosing his temper. It takes a whole lot for him to loose his temper with people. They told him nothing was broken. But when they sent me in for xrays and a MRI, after he made them pay attention.... found my back and hip was broken, among other problems.

They would of made him bring me home... who knows how.. if he did not make them pay attention. Because there was no way for him to pick me up and no way I could even move.

I know why.. because of my medical insurance.

I know this is thread drift...but that hospital is a dangerous joke.

I know there are major problems with the US medical system. Heck.. only one Doc in this whole area..within an hours drive will take my Military medical insurance. Why..because they do not pay enough. Once reason I can't get good care. Sigh ~~~

Susanne you are lucky to be near or know of good Doc.

For me it is not a We or they mentality....... it is the shear numbers of people freeloading on an already loaded system in some areas. Like I said before... much of what I spoke of is in certain areas of the US for ...now. And unless you have dealt with the problem first hand..it is hard to imagine.

I help people....again as I said before. Elders mostly because they have no one.... but what I do know...is the US can't save the world...we can't afford to give every tom, dick or harry a free ride. US is not paved in gold... but on the backs and taxes of those who are legally there.

Many can't afford to give any more in taxes or other wise because of those expecting a free ride. There is not one good reason why they should have too.

There is a jail here... and yes.. I have in roads because of Hubby's father. One jail alone is forking out $395,000 a month to house Illegal bad people. Instead of us having to pay for said illegal bad people...when we have enough of our own... why doesn't the US just ship them back when they came from?

We do that with anyone other country in the world...why not with mexicans?

If the mexicans came in legally...I doubt anyone including me, would have any issues with it. Other countries have to come in the Legal way....or they get shipped home.

But again...it is the shear number of freeloaders coming in, they are taking jobs..and it has nothing to do with the illegals being scapgoats... it is just the facts for those having to deal with it.

I have family living in Canada and they are not having to deal with what the US is in this matter. Hubby has family in Alberta and mine in Nova Scotia.

But I have talked with both sides and even they admit Canada could not better handle what is going on down here if they had to take in 1 million plus people that expect a free ride. Is more likely the whole system would colapse.

Here is what I would love to see happen.

That if all other countries must follow the immigration rules, that should go for Mexico. Mexico is not the most poor country in the world nor are they more special.

They should not be demanding we give them states.

They should not be demanding we change the languge to spanish.

They should not be marching in the streets saying they are the only ones that "made" America. (because they are not.... the Irish.....and many more helped make this country....just wasn't the mexicans)

Marching in the streets waving the mexcian flag...saying Viva Mexico... all the while most aren't legal.

They should not demand to have free housing, medical, drivers licences..when they can't even read english, food, school and so on....if they have not gone through the proper legal system to get their green cards.

Many work under the table pay no taxes and get away with things no one else does.... all because they are mexican.

Do I hate mexicans? May seem like it but that is not the case. I just don't like the freeloaders.

And yes... I would like the empolyers using the illegals get tagged and tagged hard. But what kind of message does the state send out...when they build buildings for the illegals to go to get work? What I am seeing is WA & OR is saying this kind of behavior is ok. And until the states follow the rules nothing is going to change.

Even on the News..the illegals...saying they have no fear the US will send them home.

The American born Elders will not get the help they need... working family that can't afford health insurance will not get help. They are being pushed even more to the side.

It is a bloomin mess out there and only going to get worse.

 

[tagalong]

It is a bloomin mess out there and only going to get worse.

Agreed, Shari - and you are right - Canada could not handle an onslaught of a million illegals... with only a tenth the population of the US, that would be overwhelming.

I confess that I saw red when all the Amnesty!! marches were going on... and impassioned illegals were saying that they deserved to be handed Green Cards... or be fast-tracked to the citizenship process. As I said before - watching all that - and seeing some politicians agree with that course of action - felt like a kick in the teeth. One of the Mexican guys on a landscape crew in the neighbourhood told me that he was "embarrassed" by the demonstrations... he is legal - and disagrees with many of his friends and co-workers... he went through the right channels, jumped through the right hoops - and did everything the right way - and seeing others demanding that such things be handed to them made him very uncomfortable.

Do it like the rest of us... no hand-outs - no rewards for breaking the law - and you need to have a Green Card for 5 years before you can start the citizenship process... my temporary work visa status does not entitle me to a Green Card - which is fair - and yet they feel they should simply be handed one? No.

Friends living close to the border in Arizona have a lot of foot traffic creeping by their place most nights... they have sarcastically wondered if they should set up a refreshment stand of some kind...

 

[runamuk]

And yes... I would like the empolyers using the illegals get tagged and tagged hard.

Believe it or not...Caldwell Idaho's Mayor (I believe) was going to fine all businesses hiring illegals......too bad for him that was illegal, sounded like a great idea.

I worked in Human Resources and guess what.....even if I knew someone we hired was illegal, it was against the law for me to do anything about it. I also was told no copies of drivers licenses, social security cards and I9's were to be kept in an employees file

, that also is illegal and could get us fined...........

So how do we fix this mess?

Recently in a conversation with a wildlife department official I learned that poaching by illegals is becoming a HUGE issue because even when they catch them they have no recourse.....they aren't legal, so to some degree don't exist.

Shari my sister works in a hospital in WA and she occasionally covers duties down in the ER. She has told me many times it is a clinic for illegals.

The system is a mess.............people who want to come in legally get tangled in a nightmare of hoops, and we seem to be extra hard on those coming in from Canada OH! Tagalongs rendition sounds similar to my friends sister in law's ordeal and she was married to a US citizen

but they turned her and the kids around at the border because all of her paperwork was not completed.