Learning to trim hoofs

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Shamrockmommy

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So, being a dog groomer, I'm quite used to maintaining pets here without visits to the groomer
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Saves me $60 plus bucks every 6 weeks.

Anyway, I called around yesterday to the horse vet and farrier and got a general price so that I can budget for the minis (2).

Vet looks like about $360 twice a year (includes for both) (do you all vaccinate twice a year? We don't have any other horses around for miles, and they'd rarely leave the property). The farrier says $40 every 5 weeks in the summer and up to every 8 weeks in winter. That's a hundred bucks... I can swing it fine, but if I could DIY, so much the better ;)

Of course, I'm a realist. Maybe there's a farrier school around here. Horse feet are pretty important and I don't want to mess that up.

The farrier made me afraid again to get horses. He says the minis WILL founder and you have to be so careful.
 
I don't say you cannot trim your own horses' hooves, but there is a lot to know about it. I tried to do mine at first but got flares. One of mine tends to be very upright and I was not able to keep the heels down properly either. Maybe your trimmer will be willing to teach you. Most don't like working on the little ones anyway!
 
Hoofs? Hooves? Why on earth does plural of hoof sound so weird to me ;)

I found a guy who is happy to do their feet, thankfully. Has a lovely Aussie accent
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It's hooves.

As you are fairly new to equines, I'd start with a good farrier and really watch what he is doing, perhaps in time you'll feel comfortable enough to trim them yourself. Check into a farrier school near you, perhaps even a short course for trimming to see if it's something you'd be comfortable doing. I think I had horses at least 5 years before I attempted trimming myself, now 30 years in, I've been trimming my minis the last 4 years since the last good farrier willing to trim minis left the area. [over the last 15 years, there have been times when I've trimmed all my horses at some time during each year, as farriers are hard to come by, but it's only been recently I've done any on a regular basis.] Last year, I found someone that would drive this far to trim the last two saddle horses, I don't have the hand strength to get through their hooves. [The last two farriers I've tried to have trim my minis couldn't trim their way out of a paper bag when it comes to trimming a mini balanced, they did fine with the saddle horses, but not the minis.]
 
Why are you vaccinating twice a year? Once is what is recommended. Except for west Nile which is very active in my area, I am moving to a 3 year vaccination schedule. People only get tetanus vaccines every 7 years. Over vaccinating can be just as bad as not vaccinating.
 
I don't necessarily want to vaccinate annually, but that's what the vet said to do <shrugs>

For my dogs, I do rabies as required by law, and only the puppy series on distemper/parvo. I try to keep it as minimal as possible while still offering immunity.
 
I live very rural, have no immediate neighbors with horses, I vaccinate minimally every year or other year. This year, the vet was out for other work, so I had her vaccinate all the horses with just a 3-way or 4-way shot (sleeping sickness and tetanus, I asked for the basic shot, but haven't seen the bill yet), the saddle horses hadn't been vaccinated in I think it was 4 years (they had yearly shots for at least their first 6-7 years and then I started going every other year, happened to stretch it a bit this last time). I try to make sure they have at least their tetanus shot regularly, as it's in the soil and horses are susceptible to it.
 
I vaccinate once a year, in the spring. I have rasped my horses when the have chipped a hoof but I would not attempt to trim them as too much can go wrong and I do not trust myself. My schedule form the farrier is 6 weeks in the summer and eight in the winter. My old POA could go almost 12 weeks in the winter!
 
Did the vet explain why he wanted you to vaccinate twice a year? You are paying him for it, and he may just want the extra cash (though hopefully not...) My horses are vaccinated once a year, and that's all I've heard of them needing.

As for hooves, you could go to some classes and learn how to do it, or ask your farrier to teach you, but you should probably wait for a little while and learn more before you try, because if you do it wrong your horse can go lame.
 
GGGEEEEZZZ - grab a cup of java sweetie!!

Vaccinations are based on where you are, the current weather and the directions of your state officials. Almost all horse activities, if you are hauling out to it, require a current coggins - some w/i a year, some w/i 6 months. That is determined first by your State's requirements and then by the horse activity. Larger horse shows require a coggins w/i 6 months (yikes - I certainly couldn't do all of ours every 6 months), crossing state lines often requires a health certificate and some are only good for 10 days others for up to 60.

A Coggins test is blood drawn by vet and tested by State/FDA approved facilities. Test is for EIA or Equine Infectious Anemia. My state requires all horses to have an annual Coggins test if they are being transported off of your property on a main/public road - even if you are moving your horses from 1 place to another on your own property (don't get caught - the fines are $500/horse & up). You really want to be bothered? A horse can test negative for EIA based on his Coggins test and the next day "get it" from a mosquito and you might never know until the next time the horse is tested UNLESS the horse shows more than mild symptoms of illness. That said, I'm not sure when the last outbreak of EIA was. DOES ANYONE ON THIS FORUM?? (besides Dr Taylor) - last I heard of was in the 1970s. Wondering if the rules for EIA should be changed? No treatment for EIA itself, just support for any symptoms - permanent quarantine of the positive animal (EXPENSIVE) or euthanasia - done by the State/FDA officials.

The state gives guidelines for core vaccinations - what should have, when and how often. Then they have recommendations for other vaccines. BUT it is still based on your vet, your activities, your property (some properties carry Rota Virus and/or botulism - which you might want to protect against, others don't) and your current weather systems. When we have hurricanes with a lot of standing water in our area(s), we update EW (eastern/western encephalitis - passed by mosquito), WNV (West Nile Virus passed by mosquito BUT see below) and T (tetanus - in the ground, hooves now softened if standing in constant wet or knee deep in water as ours were for a full month a few years ago). Some will also update Flu/Rhino at that time.

Our state recommends core vaccines (WNEWT) at least 2x yearly since we have an active mosquito population year around. Rabies vaccines are considered optional - but may be 'pushed' by county based on Rabies findings in the local wild life. Flu/Rhino are also considered a Core Vaccine - but there is no "real" recommendation for it.

We have not had an active WNV outbreak in years. I dropped it from our vaccines last year for ALL of our ponies. WOW, what a difference in cost for me to give it (and even more savings if done by the vet). Thankfully, we can get EWT w/o WNV.

I wish I could still get EW w/o T. Why? I just don't feel that a horse needs to have a Tetanus vaccine every year OR if they get it in the spring, don't need it in the fall when we update "the mosquito shot". If they get a major laceration or puncture wound, they automatically get a booster - protecting them right when giving it. Always done by our vet(s) if horse treated for an injury/wound . But I haven't seen EW w/o T since WNV came on the scene...

I no longer automatically give flu/rhino. For both of these to be effective, they have to be given every 90 days. That's 4x/year - for every horse?? Most vets won't tell you that. I personally don't like "throwing away $$" by doing a vaccine that is essentially in-effective if not given all the times it is supposed to be given. It took years for our vets to admit that those studies that show the length of time the antibodies for a vaccine are good for are out there.

I no longer give any vaccinations to some of our older ponies. Their bodies can't metabolize either the actual vaccine OR the carrier OR the preservative that is in that "tiny little shot"... The reactions, including death, can be massive! I don't have the actual ages this starts at, because every vet I talk to seems to have a different age they consider a horse's metabolism to change at. BUT, for us, I didn't give any vaccines to a mare whose birth date is 1998 - starting last year. She is 18 this year. I've owned her since 2009 and she's had 2 WNEWTs yearly until 2015 and 1 year got an extra due to weather. All ponies older than her were the same - starting in 2015.

So - starting as foals - our babies now get EWT w/ boosters at the current recommended ages, a Coggins test and a RV (Rabies vaccine). The vaccine ages were moved back by my vet from 3 months of age to 4 months of age for the EWT and the Rabies no younger than 6 months now (used to be 4). They get the RV/Coggins annually until they are 4 yrs old now, then no longer get the RV - may reconsider if we get told that our area has a breakout of Rabies found in wildlife. 2015 is the first year that not every pony on our property got Coggins/RV - since 1997. My vaccinations for the vet is $60 for EWT & WNV (she gives in separate shots), $15/RV, $25/Coggins (think she charges $25 for Rhino/Flu). I pay for my own vaccines (get several different sales flyers via email) and I track the sales and don't always buy from the same company - EWT (no WNV) was $9/dose with overnight shipping on my last order. I ordered syringes (100/box) a few years ago - have no idea what I paid for them but current price for 100 is .22/needles .16, but was lots less than the vaccines given by vet. I had a bunch of new needles and then the vet clinic I work for got syringes w/ needles. They were using the needles, throwing out the syringes. I got about 1,000 syringes - no charge before they went back to just needles (think it was a special order - don't know)... May never have to buy that size syringe (3 ML) again in my life time, LOL. Well, at least not for a while.

W/ only 1 or 2 horses, you may not be able to save this way by yourself - vaccines are dated. I have set up vet farm visits - having as many as 10 different owners (& as few as 2) at my farm for the vet and up to 30 animals (minis, ponies, horses, mules, donkeys, dogs, cats, rabbits, goats) - the farm visit was divided by the number of animals and then each owner paid for the amount of animals they had. I didn't always have the highest "office/farm" fees. Also, several vets in our areas now do small and large animal clinics at local ag stores or feed stores. Setting up for a certain amount of time (say 10-2 on a Saturday at one and 1-5 on a Sunday at another) - they charge lower amounts for the vaccines and NO office/farm call charge. With one of our vets who now does this 4x year, she gets vet students to help with doing exams and vaccines, experienced core of volunteers to help with paperwork and holding animals. No teeth floating, hooves or castrations done at these - nothing other than a basic exam and vaccines. Small animals could be weighed on a portable scale she brought. In one county animal shelter, there is a certified person that can do RV for dogs and cats ($5) and not required to reside in that county to get it. You just have to transport your animals to these.

So annual cost for me for a horse who isn't current on vaccines would be $195 - that's a Coggins/RV/basic tooth float (not wolf teeth pulled), 1 EWT (spring), 1 EWT booster (in 8 weeks) and 1 EWT in the fall, fecal check for worms, 1 tube of Ivermectin wormer that can be split by weight into at least 3 doses for the year- most of my ponies are in the #500 range, Strongid liquid wormer - 1x/yr, syringes, needles & office fees for the clinic I took the horses to last fall for teeth floating. Other wormers add to the cost - but it varies.

I didn't add my costs for gas or maintenance on our truck into that, but the feed store that the clinics are held at are 20.1 miles (40.2 round trip) from me and the other vet clinic where I've had the floats done last year - 15.5 miles (31 round trip). I've never hauled less than 2 ponies to a clinic or event and sometimes combine hauling several for a friend or two (who than pay for gas/meals). I combine getting feed with the clinics - saving time and $$s that way as I get 99% of our animal products/supplies from this feed store now. On May Day, I bought 10 new chicks and last night I bought 6 more (my daughter feeds the rabbits and I didn't know on Sunday we were almost out of Rabbit pellets, so made another run BUT also hit the place to get MY manicure, several things from Wal-Mart & dinner for me, 2 of our daughters and 2 granddaughters - so not just a single bag of rabbit feed run. I actually left work at 5 pm last nite but with the errands got home literally just before 9. The granddaughters stayed w/ me last night and went out to take care of our new chicks and we were out there until 11 pm before coming in for them to get ready for bed)...

Remember to ask your vet what you should have on hand for emergencies and factor in that cost. Search around - u can sometimes get deals or sales or make your own mix of products which are less expensive than getting everything from Vet or Pharmacy. Ask what you should plan in cost for an emergency - such as a weird laceration or a colic- after hours. Being an experienced groomer, I bet you could learn basics that will save you a great deal of $$ even in an ER situation - that can save your new horse's life. Then again, you may never experience one of those type of accidents or incidents. Some folks never do, but better to be prepared. The longer you own livestock and pets, the more likely you are to experience an accident or major illness.
 
The farrier made me afraid again to get horses. He says the minis WILL founder and you have to be so careful.
Yea, I think I'd avoid this one if at all possible. He's not open minded and seems to be set in what he thinks about mini horses and it's not accurate!!

I've now owned Shetlands of different breeding lines, quite a few small enough to qualify as B sized minis, for 21 years in June. Does not include the ponies/minis our family owned when i was growing up before getting back into ponies in 1995. Currently own 26 head and have never had a "true" case of founder or laminitis. EVER. Last fall, DID have a larger mare, older in age (20 yrs) that presented with some founder like issues. She was heavy in foal and maybe a bit overweight. She is more upright & much shorter in her pastern than the majority of our ponies.

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She foaled on Dec 26, 2015 and the next time the farrier out in January the "founder symptoms" had magically disappeared - she was rearing, bucking and galloping (hadn't seen her gallop or canter in several months) and her trot - WOW!! Could it have become a problem? Maybe.

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My farrier is USUALLY at my "farm" every 2 weeks and we generally eyeball every critter here while she's here... If there is a problem or if she encounters an issue when she's trimming, we schedule that pony sooner to be seen, to be seen by a vet OR to be treated medically w/o the vet w/ her recommended treatment.

Almost all of our ponies show lines in their hooves. You can tell major weather events by how many lines and how far apart they are. WHY? Because a move, a major illness (fever) and get antibiotics, a change in feed or pasture and hurricanes, blizzards, droughts & deep freezes can cause changes in the hoof wall laminae which show up on the outside of the hoof. It doesn't mean they have had founder or are laminitic. It does not mean they are automatically pre-disposed for founder, either.

There were serious changes in the hooves of all 11 ponies that reacted to the Rabies Vaccine in October 2014. YES, those ponies were sore! But they did not become laminitic or get founder nor have there been any real issues since. But you could see the differences in their hooves vs the ponies who didn't get the Rabies vaccine at that time or hadn't gotten it all in 2014. A couple did grow really wonky - not just flares but a compressed heel on one or more hooves, seriously different growth rates in the same hoof etc. The farrier balanced them out as needed. Done and no big deal.

I found a guy who is happy to do their feet, thankfully. Has a lovely Aussie accent
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You asked about doing their hooves yourself. There may be a program that is out there in your area. We used to have one - run at a local college by a respected and knowledgeable farrier who went to other courses himself over the years. I never went when I could and I've always regretted it. I have not checked to see if any of our local schools are doing this anymore - mainly because I simply don't have the time right now.

There are books and videos out that show the basics. Trust me, it is not as easy as they make it look! But then I can trim a pony's hoof and have trouble trimming our dogs' nails. I have trimmed in the past, had a farrier for years that worked with me - I did the babies (softer, easier hooves - but not always quiet/easy to do) and worked up to the others. Again, like Chanda, I had a hard time doing the larger horse's hooves - too hard and i never developed the upper body or hand strength to do it. Anyone can (and personally should) learn the basics - at least so that they know if their farrier is doing a decent job and what to ask questions about and how to recognize a problem and be able to call your vet or farrier as needed.

Just as with anything else, there are some conflicting ideas about hoof trimming on angles and other things. You live and you learn - you can't say what will work for one will absolutely work for the next because it may not.

While I know the basics and used to be able to trim hooves easily - things have changed. I have more ponies, more property and no one else around as much. I work a job with a lot more hours on the days that I do work (just cut to 2 days/week this week). I'm older, more out of shape and heavier. It's not as easy now and I chose to spend the $$ on the farrier now who can do 5 ponies in the amount of time it would take me to do 1. That's my choice. In 3 hours, she's here, I've held 5-8 ponies for her to trim, we've walked thru other areas and looked over other ponies and visited. We sometimes argue about a pony's hooves OR I have her go back and look again at what was just done. I try to have a covered area in the event of bad weather, a shaded and fanned area in the heat and fly spray for the ponies made up and ready. I pay more per pony if the weather or anything makes them jumpy, reactive or just unsettled - taking much longer to trim. A couple of times, one or the other of us has lost our temper at one pony pulling lots of idiot stunts and we stop/confront each other before that temper becomes bad. My farrier "tortures" our ponies - by "riding" the babies and "dancing" with some of them... I LOVE MY FARRIER and I can say that our ponies do as well!

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I have had a hard time over the years finding farriers that could or would do small equine. I've had farriers that would strike a horse with the rasp if they pulled a leg away (that farrier escorted off our property by a sheriff - when I called - and previously set appointments cancelled). I have gone a long time when my farrier was ill or injured (can't imagine being out of work due to a serious hand injury - never occurred to me years ago!) or I was ill. I have had a couple of different farriers and still have a backup that I can call (won't for long, he's still active duty Army and he will be leaving for a different state in less than a year,
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). In this day and age, with cell phones, I don't find it acceptable for either the owner or the farrier to not connect if there is a problem. One of the farriers I had couldn't understand why i got upset when he didn't show up and didn't call. I understand family ERs,but he seemed to have a lot of them (his wife was a teacher in our daughter's' high school) and he never called. I quite calling him for appointments and his wife asked our daughter why... She was a bit surprised and unhappy with my response. I had to take a partial day off from work when he came out - he only did week days between 9-3 pm. I worked an hourly paid job - i didn't work, I didn't get paid. After 3 times of no show/no call - my boss was questioning me, too, and not as lenient about letting me off for the appointment as I was then usually upset when I arrived at work for partial day.

Learning to do your own horses' hooves isn't a bad thing. Finding a reputable farrier, who can do minis with an open mind and is fair in his/her treatment of both your horse and your time is invaluable. Of course, they want that same respect from you - having the horse trained to stand while having his/her hooves done, holding them w/o distracting them too much (I often groom ponies while my farrier is under them - have to be careful, a wind shift and I could unhappily coat my farrier with what I was grooming off of the horses - BAD), being on time yourself with horses caught and tied up so that the farrier can get to his next client and paying for agreed upon services.

Cat converses with a cat (Mr Blu) before continuing with 2 yr old Comet's hoof trim in March 2013.

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As long as I have had or been involved with horses, the trimming and shoeing of hooves are something I will always leave to a qualified farrier.

A friend of mine once learnt a very valuable lesson when she trimmed her pony (have no idea what made her do it in the first place) but she trimmed the pony back so far it was lame for weeks.

After seeing the mess she had made , I swore that Id always have a farrier do mine.

Oh and NEVER trust a guy with an "Aussie accent"
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PaintPonyLover, you are always very full of good info!

I've been disconnected from horses in my brain lately... lost my bichon back end of February and last Wednesday, my chihuahua passed unexpectedly! Two dogs in 7 weeks. I'm in a funk.

Need to get over and visit the minis. Always makes things better.
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If you get a good farrier who is interested in your horses and can give you a commitment to come every six weeks I would grab him and hang on!! If you do this you can then blackmail him into teaching you to do them yourself in time, or you will not let go- sometimes this works........ I started trimming forty years ago because my six foot plus farrier took one look at my 28" mini mare and siad "NO. Just...NO" he gave me a set of tools and he stood me beside him as he did the kids horses and we went from there. Slowly I phased him out and he was glad to have it done. Once a year he would check them over and give suggestions, and if I needed help he would always give it. Remember, even if iut is a specialist subject, you have to start somewhere and a nice farrier will usually help....Good Luck.
 
Hope you get what you want.I feel so lucky-always have had great farriers.Had the same guy for almost 30 years and as he got older I brought on anew guy and split the load.The older guy retired and now I have this guy -I was 1 of his first customers when he started trimming and shoeing.sent him to loots of my friends.He is GREAT and has saved me several vet calls(he fixed the problem)He would rather do all Minis than biggies.He is only going to be a farrier for 2 or more years-then give it up(hard on the back and hands and knees)Where my Minis are going when I leave the farm in the fall the man does his own trimming
 
A good farrier (as others have stated) is priceless. However, learning to do trimming yourself is totally possible. I've been trimming my minis and my riding horse for 5 years now. Our farrier retired and after a series of terrible farriers I decided to take matters into my own hands (literally). It's a lot of learning and a lot of work but totally possible even if you've never looked at a hoof till now. There are some really good resources out there. Even if you decide not to do your own trimming I suggest reading up on it. That way you will know if your farrier is doing the job you want.

Here are a couple of resources I really like:

http://www.barefoothorse.com/

http://www.ironfreehoof.com/

My two minis have feet very different from one another. Major has hooves that flare to almost a triangle shape if they are neglected. Clementine grows heel very fast would end up with very upright "club" feet if she were neglected. My riding horse flairs badly on the insides of both front feet. He drags the toes of his rears and grows no heel. My point is, all 3 of my horses have very different needs. But I am able to keep them all healthy and sound. I am nowhere near being a "pro" at this but I am happy with the results I have seen as far as hoof health since I've been trimming.

Either way, best of luck. And do some reading on the hoof. It's actually quite amazing. It's not just a big toenail on the end of a leg like I though it was 5 years ago...
 
Paula--there are EIA outbreaks from time to time. They are never major--usually localized in one herd. There was one here a few years back--one fellow had a group of mares test positive. As I recall it was said he used the same needle to vaccinate all the group. A girl I was in 4H with years ago lost her horse to it--he was one of the few that actually got very sick with it. No idea how he caught it at the other horses owned by the family were okay. Equine Canada had a warning posted last year about getting a Coggins when buying horses from a certain area of one peovince--because there had been some positive cases in that area.
 
Minimor - THANK YOU, I didn't know and that is why I asked that.

UMMMM, who is crazy enough to use the same needle to vaccinate more than one animal? If we have one that doesn't go all the way in or the horse is able to "shake it off" (or one that bends as I have several ponies with skin of iron - of course those are related), we use another needle. Just never occurred to me people did that... I don't use the same syringes either for vaccinations.

With his group, do you know how they were handled? Did they have to be permanently quarantined or euthanized or has that changed?

I do use the same syringe for worming, though, but have never considered that the same.
 
UMMMM, who is crazy enough to use the same needle to vaccinate more than one animal? If we have one that doesn't go all the way in or the horse is able to "shake it off" (or one that bends as I have several ponies with skin of iron - of course those are related), we use another needle. Just never occurred to me people did that... I don't use the same syringes either for vaccinations.
Never have with horses, but we do with cattle. We have vaccination guns that hold 10 or more doses, and you just go down the line vaccinating.Like you, with the horse, if the needle bounces out, they get a new one. And, everyone gets a fresh syringe too.
 
The one case here-I am pretty sure the positive horses were all euthanized. Keeping them in quarantine would not be worth the guy's effort.
 

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