Is it possible miniature horses to have full-sized arabian horse blood?

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

I have been wondering about this for a while now, for I have noticed that some mini farms advertise that their miniatures have true arabian blood.... *shrugs*

 

[Katiean]

MAybe they have an Arbian way back in the pedigree. I was at a barn that an arabian colt got out and bred the resident pony that could have been a "B" mini. The foal they produced was small. The stud was only 14.2h. This filly then could have been bred back to a mini and yes, your horses have true arabian blood. I really doubt that you are going to get a Mini out of arab x arab breeding.

 

[Shari]

No.

If they did genetic testing then you would for sure find UK shetland blood and with some of the taller R's or American Shetland, will find Hackney pony and rare.. small Welsh... like a Sec A. It's sad, there are some breeders that are not honest.

 

[HGFarm]

Yes it is possible by means of things like the first response posted..... they would have had to have been bred down from a full sized horse, so it would be generations back and very diluted. I have heard that the Falabella family did this with their Mini Appies some times.

I dont know of any though that have any listed in the pedigree.... I would have to ask to see proof, but that is just me. I want to know the facts before I would pass on info I was not positive was correct or able to be proven.

 

[~Lisa~]

Is it possible- Yes in fact I would say it could almost be probable in a sense. However it would be pretty far back. There are many a horse with unknown in their pedigree and with hardshipping is is possible to take say a Arab mare breed her to a shetland stallion and get a smaller foal and then breed that foal to a shetland or large B size horse so yes depending on how quickly one could get the size down it is possible.

Minis be it AMHA or AMHR are not a breed that is pure by any means and I am sure many great great granddam/sires are of many different mixtures of breeds combined with the shetland pony- Obviously the appy gene came from somewhere that is not Shetland or Hackney so the most logical guess would be POA's

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, I honestly do not believe that it is, and if it were there it would be so very diluted that it would make NO difference at all.

I have yet to see a Mini that in any way shape or form resembles an Arab, all the ones I have seen described as Arab like are either Welsh like, or the owner has to be blind!!!

(or maybe just never seen an Arab??)

This is a very, very old chestnut.

I have actually done the Arab/Mini cross and even in the first generation, not only did you still get size, but you lost a lot of the Arab, the result was definitely a pony, a nice pony, but a pony, nonetheless.

I know a lot of people seem to think Pony or Horse= size, but I am afraid this patently is not so, a pony has a completely different outline from a horse, completely different.

The sire of my foal looked fairly horse like, the dam (the Arab) was definitely a horse.

The foal was a pony.

So no, it is merely a marketing ploy, I am afraid.

 

[Minimor]

I think it's possible, but it would be very far back.

After all, they say that the POA breed was began by crossing Shetlands with full sized appaloosas. Now, the POA is supposed to be a taller pony, but I have known several that were Mini sized, 35" or a bit smaller--and yes, these ponies were out of registered POA parents--in fact were themselves registered POA. So, there were these POA's that are Mini sized and have full sized Appaloosa blood in them by virtue of the fact that they were POA and therefore descended from full sized horses....

By the same token, some of the Minis could also go back to full size Arabians, but those full size horses are a long way back and will never actually show up on a pedigree, just because there was no registry back in the days when those full sized horses would have been being used for breeding.

 

[Sue_C.]

I have yet to see a Mini that in any way shape or form resembles an Arab, all the ones I have seen described as Arab like are either Welsh like

I have always said the same thing...but really...there is a point, as there is Arabian blood in the Welsh.

As for never seeing an "Arabian type" miniature, I did have one little colt that took first over several purebred and partbred Arabians in an open halter class at an Arabian show. A lot of the Arabian folks commented that he looked more Arabian than many of the purebreds.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sue, you know better than to suggest there is Arab blood in Welsh ponies!!!

There is of course, no proven Arab blood in Welsh ponies!!!

 

[Sue_C.]

Sue, you know better than to suggest there is Arab blood in Welsh ponies!!! There is of course, no proven Arab blood in Welsh ponies!!!

 

[Leeana]

I have yet to see a Mini that in any way shape or form resembles an Arab, all the ones I have seen described as Arab like are either Welsh like, or the owner has to be blind!!! (or maybe just never seen an Arab??)

Then i think maybe you should come over here and watch some of our shows! I have seen many miniature horses and amhr/aspc ponies over here winning that look very close to arabian in type (..you should see those horses go into liberty too!). Some more then others, but there are many that look very much like a small arabian.

I believe it is possible for sure, who knows what is back there that many years in the pedigree ..

 

[HGFarm]

I am not sure how a POA could be registered if it's only 35", since the breed has a height limitation also- of 46". They were created with full sized Appies & Shetlands crossing, or other ponies including the Welsh.... they didnt necessarily require a registered animal at that time as long as it fit the bill, but their criteria was pretty strict as far as what they wanted to see.

Again I would want to see proof that there was Arabian blood running through the pedigree of a particular Mini, and yes, I agree it would be extremely diluted so probably would not make much difference if it is several generations back....

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have yet to see a Mini that in any way shape or form resembles an Arab, all the ones I have seen described as Arab like are either Welsh like, or the owner has to be blind!!! (or maybe just never seen an Arab??)

Then i think maybe you should come over here and watch some of our shows! I have seen many miniature horses and amhr/aspc ponies over here winning that look very close to arabian in type (..you should see those horses go into liberty too!). Some more then others, but there are many that look very much like a small arabian.

I believe it is possible for sure, who knows what is back there that many years in the pedigree ..

I have seen plenty of American horses in the States and here.

I have never, ever seen one that looked like an Arabian, not even close, I am afraid.

The proportions are all wrong.

I have never seen a Mini that looked like a big horse in it's proportions at all, in fact.

A few, a very few, are beginning to come close, but I am only talking about adult animals, here, not clipped foals or yearlings, remember.

 

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

Yes it is possible by means of things like the first response posted..... they would have had to have been bred down from a full sized horse, so it would be generations back and very diluted. I have heard that the Falabella family did this with their Mini Appies some times.
I dont know of any though that have any listed in the pedigree.... I would have to ask to see proof, but that is just me. I want to know the facts before I would pass on info I was not positive was correct or able to be proven.

Hi, I saw it on the century farm website. If you go down on the mares page, they have a mare listed called Ali of Arabia, and I guess she goes back to the famous arabian Anasta Halim...

http://www.centuryfarmhorses.com/araby.htm

 

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

No, I honestly do not believe that it is, and if it were there it would be so very diluted that it would make NO difference at all.I have yet to see a Mini that in any way shape or form resembles an Arab, all the ones I have seen described as Arab like are either Welsh like, or the owner has to be blind!!!

(or maybe just never seen an Arab??)

This is a very, very old chestnut.

I have actually done the Arab/Mini cross and even in the first generation, not only did you still get size, but you lost a lot of the Arab, the result was definitely a pony, a nice pony, but a pony, nonetheless.

I know a lot of people seem to think Pony or Horse= size, but I am afraid this patently is not so, a pony has a completely different outline from a horse, completely different.

The sire of my foal looked fairly horse like, the dam (the Arab) was definitely a horse.

The foal was a pony.

So no, it is merely a marketing ploy, I am afraid.

What about this filly then?

http://wisteriaminihorseranch.com/2008_foals/isabella6.jpg

How is that not arabian-like? I mean, I know that the pictures may have been edited a bit, but how far can you go to make a horse look like that?

 

[EquestraDreams]

I believe the Storey's of Fort Storey Ranch in Texas (?) have have an AMHR registered stallion that traces back a few generations ago to a full size Standardbred. It is absolutely possible to have full size horse blood in some miniatures, however without correct breeding records and DNA testing for several generations back it would be hard to prove what breed may have been used and how long ago.

 

[miniwhinny]

Not to change the subject but I was told that my stallion "Ozymandias" is a couple of generations away from Impressive (QH) sure isn't on his papers but a very reputable in-the-know person told me more than once.

Better have him HYPP tested hahahahha

I have a hard job believing it because of his size...BUT - there again - he's not like any other mini I know. His coat texture is silky, he doesn't hair up nearly as much in the winter and sheds really early, he has no fetlock hair to speak of (a cold blooded pony trait) and he's very refined. Then of course there's those wierd stripes lol

If breeders are breeding for arabian type I personally hope for a couple of things...that there's enough others types left to keep the gene pool going because I really don't like the extreme dishy heads (look deformed) the long necks and the flat croups...don't care for it in the full size arabs...nor the minis. Give me Baroque anyday

and that they don't breed for the hot temperament.

The thing is it's so easy to get a "dishy" head in a mini...simply having the room for a brain gives them a bulb up top.

I do have a friend with an Andalusian mare who knows I may have to breed to Ozy one day

 

[miniwhinny]

Just want to add that I don'y buy having Impressive in there...if you're going to do that breeding surely you couldn't breed a horse with racing TB on both sides to a tiny mini mare...not uless you wanted her to burst lol

 

[Minimor]

I am not sure how a POA could be registered if it's only 35", since the breed has a height limitation also- of 46". They were created with full sized Appies & Shetlands crossing, or other ponies including the Welsh.... they didnt necessarily require a registered animal at that time as long as it fit the bill, but their criteria was pretty strict as far as what they wanted to see.

Same way, I assume, that there are some 40" AMHR registered Minis, and some 36" AMHA registered Minis--I don't believe the POAs have to be inspected to be registered? So, people just register them even if they come out too small. I've known at least two that would have easily fit under 38" had the owner wanted to AMHR register them at the time--I also knew their sire and dams, and yes, parents were taller--not sure the 46" but taller than 36" that's for sure, & they all had papers.

 

[JennyB]

Yes it is possible by means of things like the first response posted..... they would have had to have been bred down from a full sized horse, so it would be generations back and very diluted. I have heard that the Falabella family did this with their Mini Appies some times.
I dont know of any though that have any listed in the pedigree.... I would have to ask to see proof, but that is just me. I want to know the facts before I would pass on info I was not positive was correct or able to be proven.

Hi, I saw it on the century farm website. If you go down on the mares page, they have a mare listed called Ali of Arabia, and I guess she goes back to the famous arabian Anasta Halim...

http://www.centuryfarmhorses.com/araby.htm

[SIZE=14pt]Yes this is TRUE that Sundance LB Ali Of Arabia goes back to a Straight Egyptian Arabian stallion(can't tell you the stallions name)... Ali's sire, Sundance LB Balador's granddam, Sundance Samaria B "IS" sired by a straight Egyptian Arabian stallion which Sundance LB had at the time. They bred this small Arabian stallion to one of their Miniature mares and the resulting foal(Samaria B) was small enough to reg. with AMHR many years ago as Samaria B was foaled way back in 1989. I believe they sucessfully bred other mini mares to Arabian stallions that they also had, but I never saw them. Then when they bred Samaria B to their Falabella stallion, Buchon who was only 29.50" tall they got many tiny daughters of Samaria B which I have seen personally. They are beautiful little mares with tiny Arabian heads...so it can be done and has been done. [/SIZE]

Some of the UK Shetland ponies on the islands way way way back where the resulting crosses of Lady Nickelson(sp) breeding two of her very small Arabian stallions with the island Shetland mares...so it was done along time ago and can be done today if done the right way and the genes make the right nic together....

Also Rabbitsfizz I can't say for sure there is NO Arabian bloodlines in Welsh ponies(as I don't know much about Welsh), but didn't Lady Wentworth of Crabbet Stud also raise Welsh ponies along with her Arabian horses? I know that *Raffles was supposedly bred to be used on her Welsh mares, but when she thought he was sterile, she gave him away as a gift to a breeder in the USA for a riding pony for the breeders daughter. Of course *Raffles was proven NOT to be sterile and is in a large percentage of today's American Arabian horses......just wondering if Lady W would have slipt in some Arabian bloodlines as she was known to do things "HER" way ...LOL! What are your thoughts?

Jenny