How do you pick a breed worthy colt?

[Wings]

Spinning off from somthing that was raised in a foaling thread.

How do you select a breed worthy colt? The potential show and breeding stallion.

I thought it would be interesting to see how people sort through the many colts to find the few that are worthy of contributing to the breed.

I've been taught to assess them at 3 days, 3 months and 3 years.

Be it my own foals or someone else's this is what I select on and what I wait for before breeding.

I select firstly on sound conformation and a typey build with early indicators of good movement. On top of that I want a good nature and preferably colour but I can take or leave that last one.

During that time frame I want to see a colt who distinguishes himself in some way be that halter, jumping or driving.

And after 3 years hopefully I have a stallion worth keeping

 

[targetsmom]

Well, we haven't had many to pick from so that was not an issue. I think it depends somewhat on what YOU consider important, but I also think that what they look like at 3 days and 3 months helps predict what they will look like when mature. For me, temperament and movement are critical, along with conformation. Here is our firstborn colt Max at 4 days (pretty close to 3 days!:

It was pretty clear to us - even without any other colts to go by - that this one was special. By the time he was weaned he was walking over tarps and bridges, and his movement was awesome. His show record as a yearling confirmed our opinion of him, but unfortunately he did not live to the age of 3 years. But for us, he has created the "gold standard" by which all other foals will be judged. His younger half brother Rusty - very nice by almost anyone else's standards - was gelded as a yearling. Your "gold standard" will likely be different than this, but it might help you to have one in mind.

Another thought: Temperament is very important to us and I don't know how many times (but often during our recent week without power!) I will say about his sire (SRF Buckshot) "I wish I had a whole barnful like him" and realize that is EXACTLY why he is our herd sire!

 

[MindyLee]

It should be based on conformation! Looking at the sire and dam, and altho foals from both of them will help, the same past cross will help even better to see what it possibly could mature out.

BUT A LOT of folks just buy a known name.... and in the end, sometimes personally I would'nt have paid a $1 for that horse to use in the future, known name or not.

If it was me, and I was looking, and was'nt 100% sure, then ask other farms/breeders. I have in the past about 2 jr fillys I was looking at buying and oh boy Im glad I did, cause they defently pointed me in the right direction. The filly I would have picked matured out sooooo ugly and the one I did buy, I would'nt trade her for the world and ohhh is she striking! It can pay to ask. And if all they do is want to sell one of theirs to you, then move on. MOST mini horse breeders will gladly help out and point ya in the right direction.

good luck!

 

[Minimor]

I agree a lot with what Wings posted. She covered it quite nicely!

I will also add--if it is a horse that I want for breeding, it must be off a sire and dam that I like. Preferably I will like the grandparents too. If it is an awesome colt sired by a stallion whose conformation I absolutely loathe--I won't use it for breeding. Why not? Because it may very well be that his foals will end up looking like his sire, which wouldn't be what I would want at all. If I wanted the colt as a gelding, that would be different--a gelding won't be creating any foals, so a nice gelding is a nice gelding no matter how awful his sire might have been.

And of course there is also the possibility that an awesome colt sired by an awful stallion will himself turn out to be an awful stallion by the time he is mature. Lovely colts do not always grow into lovely mature horses.

 

[Jill]

Most recently, I picked a 2yo colt who was already a 3x National champion (futurity, ammy & open). He was what I wanted conformationally, bloodline and height. Plus from a breeder who has sent me many other outstanding horses -- colts / stallions, mares and geldings over a number of years and who is a trusted friend. *happy sigh*

. I didn't want a new boy who might show well. I wanted one who already racked up some big wins, and who was what I'd been wanted to add to our program. I'm still kinda pinching myself.

I'd recommend knowing what you want, buying proven if you can, and dealing with an accomplished breeder who does well in the ring. Too many times I see sale horses advertised as show prospects that I doubt could ever place well in halter (as a breeder, that's what matters most to me). Lots of people with horses for sale may think the quality is there, so it's not always am honesty issue but one of experience with what really wins.

My newest treasure as a 2yo... all 28.75" of him -- Erica's Can't Take My Eyes Off You, a/k/a SQUIRT:

-

 

[Wings]

Thanks everyone, it's great to know I'm not overly fussy like I have been accused of in the past

:rofl

BUT A LOT of folks just buy a known name.... and in the end, sometimes personally I would'nt have paid a $1 for that horse to use in the future, known name or not.

You'll notice stud name and pedigree aren't on my list, sure there are ones I like but I won't hold that against other horses. I've seen some total dogs come out of 'big name' studs!

I'd recommend knowing what you want, buying proven if you can

My first two stallions were a show proven, hi-point winning four year old where I could view both parents but no foals on the ground and a 12yr old lightly shown proven producer of multi supreme foals. Best way to start out I reckon! No silly colt growth spurts and such!

targetsmum that colt is a dream. He looks so neat! I'll go show his photo to the mares due next year so they have plenty of time to cook up what I want

 

[targetsmom]

Wings- Funny you should mention "fussy" - that is the reason we only have ten minis!! Our selection process started with they had to be pintos, and had to have NO appaloosa blood anywhere that I could find in their pedigree. We did look long and hard at the pedigree but the ENTIRE pedigree was important, not just sired by "big name stud". We wanted to see pics (or actual) sires, dams, and siblings plus any progeny. Of course, the horse itself had to have great conformation and movement. Temperament and personality are both very important and in some cases we got lucky and in others we could tell quite a lot from videos and asking lots of questions. Or meeting siblings, like we did for Princess (Aloha Acres Fashion By Magic, purchased sight unseen) because we fell in love with her half brother Leesides Nantucket Blue. Of course, some we met in person and personality was a key factor.

One factor that is absolutely key is to deal only with people you can trust!!! We bought several horses sight unseen, off their pics and videos, but asking a ton of questions and knowing who we were dealing with. In some cases, we only "knew" people from this forum but you can tell a lot if you pay close attention to their posts. All our "sight unseen" purchases worked out great - no regrets at all.

 

[ruffian]

One other thing I do see mentioned is ATTITUDE! A colt must have an attitude, the "look" if you will, even standing in a stall. He must want to show. I have a beautiful mare, with park action that would have won nationally but she hated shows. Would stand in the stall with her head down. So she's a brood mare.

 

[Wings]

One other thing I do see mentioned is ATTITUDE! A colt must have an attitude, the "look" if you will, even standing in a stall. He must want to show. I have a beautiful mare, with park action that would have won nationally but she hated shows. Would stand in the stall with her head down. So she's a brood mare.

Very true!

On top of everything else they need to have that spark, that somthing extra that should draw the eye. That drive to put on a good show and parade around with all that attitude.

I have to say, this is why I love a good stallion. They are such magnificent animals to work with!

 

[lucky lodge]

well i think a colt should prove him self in the show ring

have a nice nature and comformation and just have the wow factor

and good blood lines.

 

[disneyhorse]

Well I may be the odd man out, but I DO also put emphasis on bloodline.

It's is NEVER at the expense of conformation, athletic ability, temperament, size, or type but I do feel that a breeding stallion needs to have EVERYTHING above and beyond the average horse.

I prefer to select a son of a NAtional GRand Champion, or at least national champion. There are PLENTY of them out there. Even if just for marketing, Having bloodlines is better than lacking them. Obviously there are great stallions out there who can produce great... But I want it all.

 

[maestoso]

You should have a goal for your breeding program. Weather it's performance, movement, temperament or conformation or some variation of several or all of those, you should know what you want. Even within each of those there is a spectrum. Are you trying to sell foals for $30,000 or would you be satisfied selling locally to the amateur crowd?

Also keep in mind that it is useless to buy an outstanding stallion if your mares are just mediocre. More often then not, the resulting foal will be lucky to be as good as the weaker of its two parents, so buying a really nice stallion will not produce really nice babies unless bred to really nice mares. In fact, I think it's smarter to start with awesome mares, because you can send them out to be bred. It doesn't work in reverse.

But here are some things I look at....

1. The individual. I don't care what the pedigree is, the show record, whatever, if the horse is not attractive to look at, nothing else matters.

2. Full siblings. What do they look like both as babies and mature horses? I can think of one stallion in particular who's foals win time and time again as yearlings, the stallion may be the most popular stallion in the country, and it is rare to see his offspring showing as sr horses and there's a reason for that...... Many horses look pretty as babies and don't mature nearly as nice.

3. Half siblings. What do they look like?

4. Sire and Dam, what do they look like now? What did they look like as babies?

5. Show record. This can be important when marketing foals.

6. Last AND least, Pedigree. A "popular" pedigree is great, but the horse standing in front of you is the most important. I always laugh when people advertise that their horse is a great grandson of Buckeroo. At the point it really makes no difference. But if you can get an awesome horse with an awesome pedigree it can be a valuable marketing tool.

 

[Wings]

Also keep in mind that it is useless to buy an outstanding stallion if your mares are just mediocre.

So very true! And somthing you see overlooked a lot!

I've spent just as long selecting my mares as I have my stallions.

 

[Leeana]

Show ring success is meaningless to me (bet you didnt see that one coming). Most of the time, the success in the show ring has little to do with the horse, and there are really only a handful of judges who's opinions mean anything to me anymore. There was a horse that won the Nationals in years recent that I would not own for anything.

Most of the best producing stallions were never shown, if you look back you will find that to be very true.

If you want a breed worthy horse, go to a breed worthy breeder. I did. Bloodlines are critical to me (and that does not mean just having one horse that is "well known" on the papers, it is SO much more then that), line breeding is critical to me - the traits the horse pass on is critical to me. Show ring success and HOF Superior Sire and Dam titles don't change any of that and to me do not mean a lot.

I went to Thomas Graham, who I feel is a real breeder of not just show ponies, but ponies that can produce GOOD ponies and have been bred on purpose to do so. Some breeders can make beautiful national champion ponies, but they just cannot produce anything as breeding horses. I think this is because some people just breed any successful show horse to any successful show horse and expect to get a successful show and breeding horse, when all in all...you just got genetic scrambled eggs.

Graham's The Gambler - Out of one of the best (imo, the best) mares in the country, a Bullseye grandson (the Bullseye breeding is very potent). His maternal brother is in my opinion one of the best producing stallions in the country. He has a lot of style and type and athletic factor that he will pass on to his foals, bred to mares that will compliment his breeding. FYI as far as show ring success.. his maternal brother is Grahams Little King Lee, 3/4th brother is Grahams King Fashion (Congress Grand Champion/National Res GRAND Champion) and he is a FULL brother to that mare Joel White had in the Mare Over Grand Champion class this year at Nationals.

Graham's Black Diamond - 3/4th genetic sibling to The Gambler, purchased to breed to daughters of the Gambler. Just a yearling here, clipped and taken to a show for pictures with no real work at all..looks amazing right now..

Then this is a filly I recently purchased who is a paternal sister to both The Gambler and Black Diamond and then through the dams side goes back to most the same breeding as my other mares, after I breed her to one of the above stallions and then take that and breed it to the following stallion will go back 3x to that breeding..very very exciting..

 

[Wings]

Show ring success is meaningless to me (bet you didnt see that one coming). Most of the time, the success in the show ring has little to do with the horse, and there are really only a handful of judges who's opinions mean anything to me anymore.

I prefer to phrase it as I want the horse to be distinguished in some way. Be that the halter ring, driving, performance. Somthing like driving doesn't have to be in the ring, it could be a horse you drive regularly and is a good honest worker with a sound build and temprement. I just feel that with the large availability of stallions that just going with good isn't enough, I want somthing proven. I do understand that not everyone will feel this way.

That said, one of my stallions was shown very lightly, not even a full season, but took mostly champion ribbons in that time. He has gone on to sire very high winning foals so I feel he is proven both in his limited ring exposure but also in his progeny.

I think the foals are a stallions last test. He might be a big winner and he might tick all the boxes but if he can't pass any of that along then he is worthless as a stallion.

 

[Hayley~Diaz]

I would say it depends on what you want to breed. For example, if you wanted to breed leggy type miniature horses than obviously you should look for something that would produce it. Conformation is mega important. you want a nice sound, balanced colt that strikes out to u...... I also suggest looking through the parentage just to see what they look like and see if there is anything the colt (or his get) may throwback on that u might not like.

dont worry about those 'names', afterall they are just names and any good colt can be just as great or better than them.

 

[Hayley~Diaz]

So your saying it's all about bloodlines? For example if i was to sell you a beautiful colt with amazing presence and ability or a colt that had obvious faults but a was the son of grand champions, you would take the second one? Honestly, I think papers can only say so much, but until you see a horse in flesh (and his lines) can you really judge the potential as a stallion.

Well I may be the odd man out, but I DO also put emphasis on bloodline.

It's is NEVER at the expense of conformation, athletic ability, temperament, size, or type but I do feel that a breeding stallion needs to have EVERYTHING above and beyond the average horse.

I prefer to select a son of a NAtional GRand Champion, or at least national champion. There are PLENTY of them out there. Even if just for marketing, Having bloodlines is better than lacking them. Obviously there are great stallions out there who can produce great... But I want it all.

 

[ohmt]

Hayley Diaz-if you look closely, Disneyhorse said "bloodline is an emphasis, but never at the expense of conformation, athletic ability, temperament, size, or type." So there were a lot of other criteria placed before bloodlines and in the situation presented the first horse would obviously be picked based on what was previously said

I personally follow Matt's list almost exactly-great list to go by!

 

[Hayley~Diaz]

lol i have a tendency to skip read a lot. my bad

Hayley Diaz-if you look closely, Disneyhorse said "bloodline is an emphasis, but never at the expense of conformation, athletic ability, temperament, size, or type." So there were a lot of other criteria placed before bloodlines and in the situation presented the first horse would obviously be picked based on what was previously said

I personally follow Matt's list almost exactly-great list to go by!

 

[disneyhorse]

Actually, I would probably pass on BOTH colts in that case and keep shopping!

As I said, I want it ALL so both are lacking something.

Andrea