horses who have had laminitis

[barnbum]

I've done some research that says NO part of the grass can be green or it can still make prone horses sore. I also read where it was suggested having them on grass later in the day was best due to sugar something... which is the opposite from spring grass. About half my pasture grass is green--in spots. Other spots are all brown. I've been letting my laminic (word?) out with a muzzle. I don't believe the grass is even long enough for her to get anything and they have to paw through a bit of snow to get it; I want her to get out of the dry lot for a change of scene and to be with the herd. The most she's been on is two hours--we worked up to that 15 min at a time, and this is only a few times a week. I watch her carefully and so far, so good. No soreness at all. Another mare is prone to gas colic, so the time is limited for her also. Sigh... complications, complications.

I'm wondering how anyone else handles this and what have you experienced?

Here are the articles I read:

Unfortunately we are in the midst of high laminitis season! It is not the grass being frozen per-say that is the problem, although frozen grass can in its own right cause colic, but the fructan level in the grass when it is cold.

There are two basic processes going on with respect to sugar - carbohydrate production (from photosynthesis) and carbohydrate use (respiration). Carb use requires heat and carb synthesis requires light. Thus, on a warm dull day use is greater than synthesis, and on a sunny frosty day use is less than synthesis. So it is easy to see that when it is very frosty with a nice clear sunny sky the sugars (fructans) in the grass are being churned out due to the light but they are not being used up as it is so cold. So they therefore build up, mainly in the stem. This is exacerbated by the grass being short, as the stem always contains the most sugar. When the grass is long the horses tend to only eat to a certain length down the blade and miss some of the sugary bit at the base.

Now, this is all well and good, but what can you do about it? As the sugars are higher in the morning when it is sunny and frosty keep your horse in all morning and graze late afternoon. Also, muzzling will reduce the amount of grass your horse eats (you should do this anyway if you are trying to get the weight off him).

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Can horses eat frozen grass..?

Or is it bad for them? I heard something about it being bad for them a while ago, but I cant remember where. Just random, while I remember

Member since:

January 03, 2009

It depends. The statement that no horse should ever eat frosted grass is an oversimplification. Plenty of horses get away with it just fine. When plants freeze, respiration stops, therefore sugar that formed the day before begin to accumulate. A week of freezing nights can double the sugar and fructan content of certain kinds of grass and weeds. Fructan fermentation can cause gas colic and colitis in unadapted horses, and is associated with laminitis. Whether or not one night of freezing temperatures can cause an issue may depend on the susceptibility of the individual animal. But if a horse were prone to gas colic or IBD, this would be a good time to start to get pro-active by decreasing pasture time or putting on a grazing muzzle to limit intake. I sort of wonder about ulcers as well, because new research has shown that carbohydrate fermentation starts in the stomach, causing a drop on pH, but more work needs to be done to prove that it can happen from increase in pasture carbs.

For my severely insulin resistant ponies, the start of freezing temperatures (which will last until the grass is dead) is the decision making trigger for me to pull my ponies off grass completely until it is completely brown and enough rain and snow has washed out the sugars accumulated through the fall freeze.

 

[Hosscrazy]

Is your mare laminitic as a result of IR? Glad to hear you are doing research to help your little one - there is so much information out there and a lot of people who dedicate their time to this field. Personally, I would rather be safe than sorry, so I think it's best to take the horse of grass completely, but that's just me. I keep all of my minis on an IR diet, though none of them are IR or have laminitis. Again, that's just my preference based on my past dealings with IR and laminitis.

If you haven't done so already, you might want to visit www.safergrass.org - Katy Watts is amazing and a true expert in this field.

Best wishes,

Liz R.

 

[barnbum]

Thanks, Liz!! I have read through many of those articles, I believe from when you posted the information before. Thank you. I specifically remember the part about her ponies getting sore because she thought the grass was dead, but it was still green at the stem. That's what I've been watching for.

Oh--I've not tested her for IR; my vet said it was tricky to determine and it was just better to feed them all like they have it--like what you do. She was cresty when she came down with laminitis, but she's not now. Her coat is normal.

I am feeding all mine--two year olds to older mares--very carefully. All have muzzles, but only Rosie gets hers on right now since grazing is very limited for the rest. All are dry lotted most of the time. Only the two year olds are on pasture for a few hours longer than the others, but that means two hours on when the others are still in the dry lot, not four hours. They only get grass hay (I have stopped soaking it for winter) and a heaping tbsp of Triple Crown 30% twice a day. Rosie lost a lot of weight since I've had her on a dry lot--her ribs are easily felt, so I check her often and even upped her hay a bit. The mares' crests are wonderful, but their ribs are still hard to feel.

But, overall I'm pleased with how everyone is doing and I'm very happy to have a large dry lot and a handle on this feeding program that I've been struggling with for so long. We are Rounding Up another pasture in the spring, so they will have more room to roam. One part is my round pen, so that will be nice. The back two pastures are just too big to RU, but the two year olds and mares can graze back there with muzzles. Rosie will never be allowed on green spring/summer grass again. She hangs out with a mare when the others are grazing. I was just hoping with the consistent cold temps we've had that I could open all the pastures for all of them so they could wander happily.

 

[Joanne]

We have turned around 3 horses with laminitis. One we purchased and was shipped to us with it, one was one of mine that was purchased by a client and several years later about to be euthenized from a case of laminitis, and we intervened and brought her back for rehab, and a third that was also to be euthenized that we found on another miniature horse ranch.

The first question I would ask is, is the horse a current case? If so, then I would be more conservative.

If it has been awhile since she had a problem, I would feed her a normal breakfast for a few hours to make sure her belly was full and then let her out to exercise and eat what little grass she can find.

Exercise, along with her diet, and pain management are key to her success. We had one mare that I brought here that had all four legs in acute laminitis, She was due to me euthenized when I found her at a well known ranch. I brought her home to try and save her, which we did. We had no relapses until 2009 when she was in foal. The hormones of her pregnancy triggered another attack. She had had foals twice before with no problems, but this time one foot relapsed.

Founder is a tricky and fickle thing.

I do believe that her free moving (not forced) exercise is beneficial to her recovery. Force stall confinement has atrophied the muscles and has lead to more problems in our experiences. If she has a buddy that would inspire her to move and could also groom her and make her feel part of the herd, I also think that would be beneficial for her mental health.

Grass is not the only thing that could have been the initial trigger, grain, and other things have been cited as possible triggers.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

Karla, I am having the same decisions with my pony mare, she is sound now and her digital pulse is normal. For her the digital pulse is the key, and I am using that as a guide. I really want her to be able to go out on some pasture with the others, for mental health at least. My pasture grass is about 2-4" high, the grass is a mixture of green/brown color so according to the website it probably has some sugars in it, but the kind of pasture grass we have won't ever turn completely brown. Our temps got bitter cold and stayed there for several weeks, so I decided to try her last week on pasture. She was out for an hour, no spike in her digital pulse! I increased to 2 hours the next day, no digital pulse! So for her the sugars in the grass are not too much. I'm hoping to build up to 4 hrs a day or more over winter, but come spring she will be on a dry lot again. I might try her on grass on this summer, I'm not sure yet. She is going out without a grazing muzzle now because the grass isn't high in calories, so not worried about how much she is eating and I will decease hay if she is going out for a lot longer hours.

I think you have to use your best judgement on an individual basis, my vet encouraged me to try her on grass and see if she could handle it, according to my circumstances.

Good luck, I know it's tough to decide!

 

[Ashley]

Do you know why/on what she foundered? I have a big horse mare that was foundered on corn. She is on grass all the time( except spring when they are locked off for it to grow). She does fine.

 

[chandab]

If they can find it, and if I had winter pasture for minis, they could have any grass they wanted. Now, mind you, everything here is under at least 1 foot of snow. The saddle hroses are on their winter pasture with a bale of hay, and once the snow got to about 6-8" they quit looking for grass and attached themselves permanently to the hay feeder, only leaving for water. My minis are all on drylots with grass hay or mix hay (mostly grass) and seem quite happy for this time of year.

 

[Al B]

I have a mare that was foundered for about 5 years. At times she could barely move.

I put her on a dry lot, coastal hay, and Wellsolve L/S. Within 2 weeks she was walking around wih very little noticable founder.

 

[Helicopter]

I have a little mare who has foundered for several years and I guess (for her sake) should have been put down long ago but wasn't. Boy have I struggled and has she suffered...we both have!

However the last 12 months she has been in top form. She never gets to eat any grass, never, and all her hay and chaff are soaked. Since adding Speedibeet and Zero (1.5% sugars) to her diet she has put on weight and no longer looks starved. She also gets vit/minerals of course and a founder herb supplement. She gets her feet trimmed every 4 weeks by a bare foot trimmer. I do all the rest myself but Millie has a special farrier...because she is special. LOL

When the others are in the bare yard I let Millie out with them with her "starvation mask' ...that's what I call it anyway.

In Millie's case I know she is one wrong feed away from a return to all her problems.

Given this experience I am ABSOLUTELY PARANOID about founder.

 

[Marty]

I believe every case is different and what works for one won't work well for another. It is also essential to know if you are dealing with laminitis or full blown founder with rotation. That makes a huge difference. It also helps to determine what triggered this problem in the first place because sometimes it had nothing to do with grass at all. Could have been mechanical failure caused by the farrier or any number of things. That makes another difference. I've had plenty of both brought here in the past to re-hab and I'd never allow a founder to have another blade of grass again. I also am anti-muzzle so it took time to work out a good program without having to wear them and of course that was hard too but eventually it worked out.

My QH Sonny had the start of a laminitis attack a few years back but I caught it in progress. He was treated and stabilized immediately. He did go back out on grass after a while and never had another episode. I do however keep his field mowed down to the nubs.

Take it one step at a time. You can try for an hour or so and watch and see what happens. Again, they are all different so its anyone's guess what will or will not occur. Tread carefully and you'll be fine.

 

[barnbum]

Joanne--Rosie came down with it in May 2010--she hasn't been sore in a long while, but it lasted longer than I thought. It was in her front hooves, but worse in the right. I'd consider her not over it 100%--not until a year has passed and her affected hooves have grown out. That's why I'm being so cautious.

I'm positive it was spring grass that caused it. It was the first time in years I had all horses pastured together, so I thought I was home free with any problems of this sort. But, all the pasture--about an an acre or so divided into five pastures--were open because there was so little grass. Then it rained and I decided to leave the pastures open for one more day, but the grass grew faster, and they ate faster, and that's the night I first noticed she was off. The farrier said to muzzle her, so I did, but that didn't help enough. That's when we created the dry lot. At first the farrier thought it was a very mild case, but later he saw bruising on her hoof and said it was more than just a mild case. Neither he, not the vet feel there was rotation, but she hasn't been x-rayed.

Marty--I hate muzzles too, but my horses are used to them now. Some accept them better than others--Mazie hates it most, but she needs it least. My mares will never be on grass from April to November without one. Rosie just won't be on grass in that time period at all. Once enough time has passed, I may try her for 15-30 min on grass with a muzzle while I'm getting stalls ready for tuck in--that's a nice limited time.

Kim--I was good at finding her pulse when I was soaking her, but I can't find it now!

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

Karla-for my mare not being able to find it is "normal" for her, when I can feel it something is up. I was so happy to be able to graze her for 2 hours without causing a change in her DP. I have been able to keep track of the different strengths of her DP so I have a base-line to judge. For example I can tell when it's a big spike (the time I forgot to soak beet pulp all day and didn't get all the molasses off before feeding time) or small (the hard ground will cause a slight increase for her).

 

[Helicopter]

Where do you feel for the digital pulse please???