Horses acting starved

[mydaddysjag]

I am in the process of getting Domingo switched over to a ration balancer. Well, Im actually starting to cut his current grain back, and also use up some of what we have left. I spoke with buckeye and from what theyve said, ive decided my best bet is going to be to cut his grain back slowly to close to what he will get of the ration balancer, then start switching over 25% at a time over a week or so. Heres the deal, Domingo is not real thrilled with this change. The ration balancer weighs out to be about 1/2 cup twice a day. He wasn't getting a huge amount before (when being worked he was getting 1 1/4 cup of a 12% protein, 3% fat, 25% fiber complete feed, along with grass hay) but he is now acting like he is starving. I really dont blame him, what he gets now is basically nothing. He doesnt care if he has a bunch of hay with it. I'm wondering if theres something low calorie that we can add with the ration balancer to keep him full, without making him gain weight. Beet pulp comes to mind, but he is boarded, and in the winter I'm not so sure that they will be good with soaking it and feeding it to him not frozen, etc. If thats what he needs, we'll figure out what needs to happen to get it done for him, but if it can be made more simple, that would be better. Would feeding some alfalfa pellets throw off any ratio's or make him gain a significant amount of weight, or would they be a healthy option for a horse who clearly thinks he's starving?

He's pudgy right now, but hasnt been worked in a while. My husband has agreed to help me keep him somewhat fit over winter by lunging him a few days a week (realistically 2 or 3 times) and right now he's not grossely overweight considering he didnt have his feed cut until now, and hasnt been worked in months.

Again, his feed was 1 1/4 purina adult, and im thinking of instead of just 1/2 cup gro n win, doing 1/2 cup gro n win, 1/2 cup alfalfa pellets. Do you think he would stay at current weight, or possibly drop a little weight with the switch? Im fine if he doesnt lose weight, I just really dont want him to get any bigger. I just feel so bad with him acting so hungry, which really isnt normal for him.

 

[Mominis]

How about giving him some oats? Though they may through off your calcium/phosphorous ratio if you don't do the math. They would bulk out his plate without adding a lot of weight to him. There are lots of misconceptions about oats. They are said to be a hot feed, not true when fed properly. I don't think of them as a mainstay feed and certainly would not use them as a primary feed source, but for filling out a diet, they would work pretty well, depending on how they balance with the remainder of the consumables. Consider their nutritional content against the program that you want to 'bulk' out:

1 Kilo Whole Oats contains: DE (mj)=10.6, CP (g)=86.4, Ly (g)=3.6, Ca. (g)=0.9, P. (g)=2.9, Mg. (g)=1.4, Na. (g)=1.1, K. (g)=3.9, Mn. (mg)=34.3, Zn. (mg)=21.4, Fe. (mg)=65.0, Cu. (mg)=11.3, Co. (mg)=0.1, I. (mg)=0.1, Se. (mg)=0.2, Vit. A (I/u)=360.0, Vit. D (I/u)=0, Vit. E (I/u)=15.7, Thiamin=1.4, Riboflavin=9.7, Vit. B12=0, and Folic acid=0.4

 

[candycar]

I've weighed alfalfa pellets and 1 1/2 cups weighs about 8 ounces (1/2 lb). 1/2 cup would only be a few ounces of alfalfa and that isn't much to throw off any feed program you have. JMO

 

[mizbeth]

Different brands of feed, although they say % protein is this and % fat is that are not the same and effect the weight of the horses differently. Cheaper feeds require more of it to keep weight on a horse, goods feeds less.

If he is overweight, why not just cut back on the amount of feed you give him rather than go through a complete change of feed? He will eat the hay you give him, he is just "playing" with you. Mine do that all the time and act hungry and give you that pitiful look

The hay will help fill him up. If he simply refuses to eat the hay at all, look for a different or better quality hay. Mine will not eat coastal/grass type hay that is not fertiflized (sweet tasting to them), or if it has been rained on before baling, or sitting around a while (year or more) before I buy it. They seem to know what is good for them.

** I have tried a 2.5% fat diet for them, I personally do not think that is enough fat for them. I feed strategy and it is 6% fat. That is a bit high I think for horses that are only standing around, but in my opinion one of the best feeds on the market today. You certainly do not have to feed much of it to keep your horses in top shape. They get between 1 and 1 1/2 cup (8oz measuring cup) of strategy two times a day with alfalfa and coastal and look very well cared for

 

[Annabellarose]

I do not have any advice, I am just posting to say that you do not have to soak beet pulp to feed it to horses. I have NEVER soaked beet pulp. I may not feed as much as some people do when I feed it, but I have never soaked it and I have never had a problem.

 

[Joanne]

Winter, especially in the colder climates, is a bad time to start cutting back on feed or changing their diets to pellets.

We prefer our horses to have a little bit more weight on them at the beginning of winter. The cold takes a toll on them and they will loose enough retaining their heat. JMHO

 

[mydaddysjag]

I wanted to add that what he is eating now is a complete pellet. It's not a cheap feed, its purina equine adult, the 12% feed in the same line as equine junior and senior. We picked it because it was high in fiber, yet had the correct amount of protein and fat for a mature horse. Domingo is 9. I did have him on strategy for a few months, but couldn't keep him in condition. It worked great when I fit a yearling, but it didnt work for Domingo. The reason I want to switch over to the ration balancer is because before cutting his feed back he was already getting a little less than 1/2 the reccomended amount of the equine adult. I dont feel that if I cut it back again he will even be getting much nutrient wise from it. The ration balancer is meant to be fed in that small of an amount, so he would be getting the correct amount of vitamins and minerals on just the small amount of grain.

We wopuld be changing him from pellets, to a different type of pellets, not from a sweet feed to pellets.

I know you can feed beet pulp not soaked, but in winter I would really prefer it soaked. My horses tend not to drink as much when it is cold out, and they need to take in the right amount of water to eat beet pulp not soaked. Ive fed it to my other horses when I needed to fill in a top line, and get weight on a senior, ive just never fed it to domingo.

He does eat all of the hay we give him, he just still acts hungry after he has hay and grain.

Domingo was on a diet of oats and textured feed for years while being shown regularly, and looked good. I may try the oats to add a little bulk to his concentrate without adding a lot of calories. Otherwise I'll try alfalfa pellets, he will think hes getting more grain, and really he will be getting more hay.

 

[ljc]

Can you get Triple Crown feed? I've been very happy with TC Lite for my minis. I had been giving them Strategy (along with my full-sized horses) but when one of my big guys was diagnosed as being IR, I switched him to TC Lite and then figured my slightly-pudgie minis could have it as well. They love it. It's lower in NSC than Strategy (and probably lots lower than Purina Adult), has vitamins and everything added to it (some people even feed it as a ration balancer).

I'm also a recent convert to beet pulp and love it. I would never feed it unsoaked but I give the shreds (w/out molasses) and they soak up water instantly. Really. You can add water and within five minutes, safely feed it.

 

[Katiean]

I feed beet pulp to mine. They love it. I use 2 cups of water to every cup of beet pulp. I usually just make a big bucket (enough to devide up between everyone and I add oil for their coats. I feed a couple of cups of safe choice on top of the beet pulp. I fix it in the house because I can mix it with hot water and by the time I get out to feed it is not too hot for them to eat. I feed this with a small amount of alfalfa hay for the girls (they are preg.) and my boy gets this kind of icky grass hay (he is fat). My horses (4 of them) goes through a 40# bag of beet pulp in just under a month. It would not hurt to store the beet pulp for 3 months while you are using it. Oh, and I only feed the beet pulp at night.

 

[Marty]

My humble opinion is 1/2 a cup of ration balancer is not nearly enough in my opinon, and since it is not "food" he's hungry. That would be like you just taking a vitamin tablet with no dinner. I"ve fed it at a minimum of 1 cup twice a day and for some more than that with oats. I wouldn't be messing around with this too much with winter coming on. I know you worry about keeping him in some kind of decent condition but honestly if he were my horse, I'd be more worried about feeding him up real good in the winter to help keep him warm and healthy first. I expect mine to gain weight in the winter. I don't want any sick horses.

Why not leave it alone and continue with the Purina pellets and also add soaked beet pulp with that plus his hay? I'd be generous with the hay too.

 

[mydaddysjag]

It's not so much that I want to keep him in shape, I just dont want him to founder. He's mighty pudgy, I'll have to get some new pictures. I have a woman who is willing to give me driving lessons on him, but he just barely fits in the cart shafts, which is what got me so concerned. I knew he was getting winter ready, but I didnt expect him to not be able to fit in his cart.

 

[Versatility Farm & Training]

It's not so much that I want to keep him in shape, I just dont want him to founder. He's mighty pudgy, I'll have to get some new pictures. I have a woman who is willing to give me driving lessons on him, but he just barely fits in the cart shafts, which is what got me so concerned. I knew he was getting winter ready, but I didnt expect him to not be able to fit in his cart.

I just want to point out/ask.... is your horse really fat? Or does he just look fat? I have known a lot of people who look at their horses and see them as fat and put them on a diet, and then in the spring when they clip them, or the horse sheds, they find skin and bones. It is really important to put your hands on them and feel through the hair. Even if the horse is overweight, that is a good thing this time of year. Horses tend to loose a lot of weight over the winter, so having extra bulk now is good because as it gets colder they are going to begin to loose weight.

I have never fed a ration balancer, but it was my understanding that a ration balancer is added to feed to balance the ration, not replace it. I could be wrong since I don't have experience with it. If you are worried about him being too fat, why are you trying to upgrade your feed instead of downgrade it? If he is staying healthy and fit on a lower than recommended amount of feed, then he is just saving you money. If he was not getting enough of the nutrients he needed, he would be loosing weight and having a hard time staying healthy.

Also you might want to talk to a nutritionist, not a feed company (or feed company's nutritionist). My college professor that I had for my Equine Nutrition class is now working at Buckeye. I consulted her once on feed for a hardkeeper horse. There was one time she was busy and I got shuffled to another nutritionist there... he recommended one of their feeds etc. but I waited to talk to her. When I did she reminded me of some of the stuff she taught in class and ended up recommending a feed from another company, and pointed out that a feed company can be biased on their recommendations, especially if you tell them you are feeding a feed that is not theirs.

Just a few of my thoughts.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Winter is coming and horse's instincts tell them to eat as much as they can right now to put on weight to get them through the winter. If you were feeding him a larger amount of feed (I am talking measured in bulk not calories) his system is saying "eat more" and that is why he is "acting" starved. I agree with the others, this is not the best time of year to be changing feeds.

 

[LAD]

Hi, If you'd like to give me a ring and I'd be happy to discuss D's diet with you.