Help Needed with driving gelding

[hobbyhorse23]

I agree after watching the video the breast collar does look to high and maybe too tight will get a pad on it.

Just a caution, adding a pad to a breastcollar makes it higher and tighter. Probably not the right thing to do here!

Thanks Bonnie!! He doesn't run and play with the other horses either which I find strange!! He seems to just want to stand and be left alone. He also goes berserk if you try to lift a hind leg. Maybe all related?? So, you guys could see it in the video??

Don't think there's any "maybe" about it. If you'd mentioned those symptoms, I would have said "chiropractor" first and foremost! My vet IS a chiropractor and she does a wonderful job on Kody. I've never had a horse who needed one before him but the lil guy seems to throw his back out constantly and is in very real pain until he gets adjusted. He hates most body workers I've called for him but after the first few adjustments he figured out that "Aunt Kari" is a very nice person who makes him feel better. Too bad she just moved to California!

Do be careful though, just like with people drs there are good ones and bad ones. I got lucky- Kody's chiro is gentle and makes small soft adjustments. I've seen several that do this wrestling thing with loud pops and cracks and I'd worry they'd do more harm than good.

Go with your instincts and listen to your horse! If he doesn't want that person touching him, thank the dr and ask him to leave.

I think the biggest moral here is listen to your instincts. Let me repeat that: You're already getting messages from this horse. It's very clear. Do not second guess them, and do not ignore what he tells you. Bonnie gave you a very clear answer which given the further symptoms you've mentioned I think is likely correct. You've said yourself you feel he's not right yet. So listen to that and stop second-guessing yourself! I know it's hard to have faith in these messages but they're real. Trust in yourself and your instincts. Trust your horse. He's not being stubborn, he's doing the best that he can.

I understand what you are saying but this is not stubbornness, and, although I have known strong willed and even stubborn horses you have to understand that there is always a reason, even if that reason is merely "I don't want to"We do not whack kids that just say "I don't want to" do we, and horses are supposed to be willing partners, not slaves

In view of what Bonnie has told you I think we can assume Joe, in fact, is not stubborn at all, merely in pain, and has been in pain, in all probability, since you bought him.

So....not a stubborn horse at all.

If he were not so strong willed he probably would have kicked you or refused to work at all, by now!!

I would stop driving him altogether, as of now, and until such time as he has been well looked over.

I 100% agree with this post, top to bottom.

You've got a little gem there, he just needs help and understanding to shine. Be patient with him and understand he's trying to tell you something and it isn't "I'm pointlessly stubborn, I don't want to, you can't make me."

He has no other way to show you what's wrong.

Leia

 

[mgranch]

Thanks everyone I appreciate it!! So does Joe!! Leia clean out you inbox I tried to PM you but it won't go!!! LOL

 

[mgranch]

So, I just reread thru this post. I think it is so wonderful how a problem that I first asked about unraveled into this wonderful eye opening explanation for other things. As a mom and grandma who is working three jobs right now because my son lost his job and moved home with his family I am too tired or dim witted or whatever but I honestly hadn't seen the big picture of what all was going on with Joe!! I feel like an idiot that I didn't put this together on my own but on the other hand I am very grateful that all of you cared enough and were there to help us figure this out!! How wonderful to have such dear friends to help when you most need them!! I thank each and every one of you from the botton of my heart!! I have a call into a chiropractor tonight. I will have to wait on the teeth, money is sooooo tight right now but it will be done as soon as I can manage it!! Gina & Joe

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Gina please do not feel bad about this, I am sure everyone agrees that it is wonderful that you are so open to suggestions...so often people get it in their heads that the horse is playing up and it is the horses fault.

You stepped up and took responsibility...that, as far as I am concerned is a real result!!!

 

[MiLo Minis]

Just a word of reason here...Common sense alone dictates that if a horse is trotting along one moment and then stops for some reason you do NOT whack it one on the basis that it is acting up!!!

Please do NOT try this at home, kids!!

If the horse is acting up, or if it is not is basically totally irrelevant if you end up with a couple of hundred pounds of annoyed and now panicking equine in you lap because that is often the reaction of a baulking horse to being hit...rearing and going over backward!!!

If a horse baulks for no apparent reason my first reaction would be to get out and go and ask it what was wrong and to lead it on.

If you do not wish to do this the correct way to treat a baulking horse is to ask it to turn in a circle and then, once it is turning, to walk on.

Very few horses act up for no reason.

In fact, you know what??

I can't think of one.

There is always a reason, you just have to find out what it is and a dentist and a chiropracter are always a good place to start.

Be aware that a chiro is not a "quick fix" if your boy is six this is in all probability a fairly deep seated problem and is going to take a while to get it straight.

There are quite a few statements here that I agree with entirely Jane but I do not agree with getting out and leading the horse on all the time if he is giving you trouble. If the horse is balking out of stubbornness or laziness that would be the wrong thing to do. He wants out of work and you reward him by getting out of the cart and not asking him to pull - you will find him trying this with increasing regularity. Some horses do act up for no apparent reason other than to get out of work. There are all kinds of temperaments and experience will give you some insight into which type you are working with at the time. I also don't ask them to circle if they are balking. It is a very difficult maneuver for a green horse to turn a cart from a standstill. You are best to keep them facing straight and ask them with escalating cues to move on IF they are refusing out of stubbornness. Some horses just have not come to have any faith in their driver and if they feel there is some danger in continuing will plant themselves and not move until they feel it is safe to do so - they need to be convinced that the driver is the one in control and will NOT get them in trouble if they listen. A horse that balks in harness can be a very dangerous situation and I really think that if you find yourself in that situation you are best to seek the help of an experienced trainer who can help ascertain the reason and what to do about it.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

If you watch the video you will see an alert, willing little horse, not a stubborn recalcitrant one!

I'm not sure how long he has been actually drivi8ng.

And I do have to say that I stand by what may seem to be a controversial statement....I have never come across a horse that is "stubborn" or "lazy" without a reason.

One of the little jobs I do in order to make a bit of money is teach horses to go on trailers and horse boxes.

These are BIG horses ( I am still a dwarf!!

)

If I had a pound for every time I have heard "He's not afraid he's just being stubborn" I would be RICH!!!

They ALWAYS have a reason for what they do, now, we might not always be able to find out what it is (in the case of trailers and boxes it is a) the vehicle is too small or b) there is a bear in the front of the vehicle ....imaginary, of course, but still very scary when you are pea brained TB!!) and we might not be able or willing to accommodate the reason, but it is STILL a reason.

This little horse is not stopping because he is being awkward.

We owe it to our horses to listen when they speak to us.

We retain the right to disagree and to negotiate, but we still should respect them enough to listen!!

I also do not escalate my cues. with a green horse I start off with strong, often loud, cues and cut back as the horse responds.

Circling is the very first thing I teach, long before I get in and drive, all my driving horses have really good manoeuvrability, it is something I insist on.

Everyone is different, and if one way does not work, another will.

I still say thumping the animal is not the answer!

 

[MiLo Minis]

If you watch the video you will see an alert, willing little horse, not a stubborn recalcitrant one!I'm not sure how long he has been actually drivi8ng.

I still say thumping the animal is not the answer!

Go back and read my first post on this thread. I suggested right off the bat and long before the video that this horse was in pain and not being lazy or stubborn so no argument there!

I agree wholeheartedly THUMPING a horse is NEVER the answer!

 

[Keri]

There is no need to bash everyone's idea on training. Everyone trains their own way. The person asking for the advice takes what they want and then leaves the rest behind. So keep this civil. Suggest your own training methods and quit bashing the rest.

I restated my comment after seeing the video suggesting the horse go see a chiropractor becuase he clearly wasn't acting up. I know the difference between a sore horse and a misbehaving horse. I don't smack a stubborn horse also. But horses are like children. There are some so willing to learn that they are a dream to drive. Others are like teenagers or very annoying two year olds. They'd rather talk, dink around or what not instead of get to work (I had a stallion who was a humdinger like this). It took one smack and me telling him to get to work to actually get to work. Then after that, he drove fine. I was by no means going to get out of the cart and give him a good talking to. I've also dealt with horses with stifle problems. I have a gelding I was driving. I noticed he wasn't picking his gate up like he should (he would've been a heck of a roadster horse). Didn't whip him then because I realized there was something the matter with him. We've had a series of bloodwork done and there definately something the matter with him now (not that I have thousands of dollars to find out since the bloodwork didn't find anything specific, but we're leaning towards the early stages of Cushings).

Its up to the person driving to notice what the horse needs. Some horses are easy to deal with, other's aren't. That's where you have to determine the best way to deal with them.

Wanted to add: The whip is a training tool there to aid you in training your horse. Its not a decoration. Ask any big name trainer and I'm sure you'll see they use one. Its not there to beat the horse, but to assist you in some situations.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

We owe it to our horses to listen when they speak to us.We retain the right to disagree and to negotiate, but we still should respect them enough to listen!!

Words to live by.

This applies to parents and children as well, and for that matter anyone in a position of authority. You can still LEAD without assuming those beneath you are deaf, dumb or stupid.

(Wish more bosses would realize that!)

Leia

 

[hobbyhorse23]

There is no need to bash everyone's idea on training. Everyone trains their own way. The person asking for the advice takes what they want and then leaves the rest behind. So keep this civil. Suggest your own training methods and quit bashing the rest.

Take it easy Keri, no one is bashing you personally.

You're right that there are stubborn horses out there who really are simply saying "You can't make me!" and being firm is the correct response in that instance.

Wanted to add: The whip is a training tool there to aid you in training your horse. Its not a decoration. Ask any big name trainer and I'm sure you'll see they use one. Its not there to beat the horse, but to assist you in some situations.

The whip IS a training tool and there to be used, you're absolutely right. But every professional carriage driver I know will tell you NEVER to thump a horse on the rear with it. It tends to inspire bucking!

You flick the lash of a proper whip at the horse's back and use it to replace your legs in telling the horse to bend or move on...I'm afraid the little sticks we all use for show driving are pretty much useless except for tickling them with the tassel.

Don't get me wrong, I've thumped my balking horse a few times. But only after I'm sure I know why he's resisting and it's "No way, uht-uh, you can't make me go in there!" *LOL*

Anyway, great topic. MGRanch, I'll clear out my inbox!

Leia

 

[MiLo Minis]

There is no need to bash everyone's idea on training. Everyone trains their own way. The person asking for the advice takes what they want and then leaves the rest behind. So keep this civil. Suggest your own training methods and quit bashing the rest.
I restated my comment after seeing the video suggesting the horse go see a chiropractor becuase he clearly wasn't acting up. I know the difference between a sore horse and a misbehaving horse. I don't smack a stubborn horse also. But horses are like children. There are some so willing to learn that they are a dream to drive. Others are like teenagers or very annoying two year olds. They'd rather talk, dink around or what not instead of get to work (I had a stallion who was a humdinger like this). It took one smack and me telling him to get to work to actually get to work. Then after that, he drove fine. I was by no means going to get out of the cart and give him a good talking to. I've also dealt with horses with stifle problems. I have a gelding I was driving. I noticed he wasn't picking his gate up like he should (he would've been a heck of a roadster horse). Didn't whip him then because I realized there was something the matter with him. We've had a series of bloodwork done and there definately something the matter with him now (not that I have thousands of dollars to find out since the bloodwork didn't find anything specific, but we're leaning towards the early stages of Cushings).

Its up to the person driving to notice what the horse needs. Some horses are easy to deal with, other's aren't. That's where you have to determine the best way to deal with them.

Wanted to add: The whip is a training tool there to aid you in training your horse. Its not a decoration. Ask any big name trainer and I'm sure you'll see they use one. Its not there to beat the horse, but to assist you in some situations.

You are most certainly right Keri and there are times when the whip is necessary. The big key is knowing the difference for when to use or not use it just as you did. I like to ask a horse I am training first and become increasingly insistant so that they learn to respond to the "ask" rather than giving them strong cues to start and then have no where to go when they don't respond but there are times when they need a very strong cue to get them going in the right direction.

 

[mgranch]

So, not that I am totally confused now but just my thoughts. This is the second time Joe had been my horse. The first time he was so difficult I did not want to deal with him nor did I feel I had the experiemce to deal with him. He was gelded as a 4 year old because as a stallion he was so horrible he could not be handled. I originally bought him as a youth gelding for my child but he was a monster. He was marketed as a youth prospect. I gave him back to his original owner after 6 months when my child could not even go in the pen with him as he was so frightening. After a year of no payments on him I was contacted by his original owner to come get him as she could not pay me for him and he was being uncontrollable in her barn. She claims he was full on breeding her mares, running away in cart and just plain being a bad boy. I did not want him back. With little choice I paid a transport to bring him back to me. I am trying!! I know you all are seeing a pain issue and I will get a chiropractor for him BUT though I see a boy who is trying I also see a boy who has been very bad all of his life and I am old and tired!! I can only do what I can do!! Jane, when I posted about bringing a problem child back and trying again you were so supportive!! I am not sure I have the time or energy to do this!! I am trying to do the best by him but I am limited in money and experience!! Leia, this is what i tried to PM you about!! I need help with him and feel very overwhelmed!!

 

[mininik]

If you're feeling overwhelmed and cannot afford the chiropractor right away, take a break. Nothing says this horse HAS TO BE DRIVEN, RIGHT NOW, NO MATTER WHAT. It's winter. It's cold which may be making him even more stiff and uncomfortable. Give him a break. Give yourself a break. Work on mental exercises that will also tire him out and be easier on both of you and are likely to help with his attitude. Research clicker training and use it to teach him some simple tricks. Research TTouch massage and work on him yourself a bit to help him relax until he can be seen by a professional. Find the good in him, focus on that and build on it until he is the horse you want him to be.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I am really sorry, you are sounding rather desperate. Rather than putting your money into a chiropractor is there anyone close to you that is an experienced horse person, preferably a good trainer? You might not need to put out the money for an entire month's training, or maybe even none at all, but if you could have them take a look at him for you they could possibly give you an idea of what the problem is. It is impossible for anyone to properly diagnose this horse via the internet no matter how much we want to try and help you. Way back at the beginning of this post you said that you saw glimpses of this horse trying to trust and become friends with you and that he wasn't always bad. Animals in pain have no way of telling us where it hurts and so they "misbehave". It is also entirely possible that he isn't actually feeling pain but hasn't had proper training, is very confused and it has lead him to this point. Please try to find some hands on help for you and him. Very best wishes that this all works out well for the both of you.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Oh sweetie, take a deep breath. I know it's incredibly frustrating when they're acting out and you can't seem to get a handle on where they're coming from.

I've been there! I borrowed Liz's "Pyro" this spring and while I love that little horse and he's a good boy, I simply did not have enough time and energy to deal with him and we had some real battles before I finally sent him home. He needed to be with a herd in order to be happy and at my place he had to be kept by himself while Kody got over surgery. The frustration of that caused a lot of problems for him and he started acting out. Kody's my equine soulmate- he can act up like crazy and I just deal with it and move on. I found that a horse who I didn't have such an attachment to was much harder to accept the same behavior from and it got quite stressful. Nobody's fault, it just wasn't working because I didn't have enough time for him! Now he's back where he wants to be and perfectly happy again.

We all know you're doing your best by Joe. I agree with Mininik's excellent advice- take a break! Let him eat hay and be a horse and spend time with him until you feel interested in working with him again. Talk to him and tell him what you're feeling and why you're stepping back, that it's not his fault but you need some time to get a fresh perspective on this. It may be that the two of you are simply not suited and he'd be better off with someone else who prefers that kind of challenge. Sometimes it comes down to whether or not the two of you are a good match, spiritually-speaking.

I liked what I saw of your driving in the video, you used your voice well and had that "you can trust me to lead responsibly" attitude which I think he's responding to. If you want to continue with this after some time off for you and bodywork for him I think you could make a go of it. If not, no one would blame you at all.

As you said, you can only do what you can do. Take a deep breath, enjoy the holidays, and see what happens. Heck, I notice you're in Oregon and I've been known to make trips down there in the early spring to visit my LB friends and work with them and their horses. Maybe you could bring Joe to one of our get-togethers and we could see how he does. I am NOT a trainer but I enjoy working with driving horses and trying to bring them up to their potential. It's a lot of fun for me and I'd love a look at Joe.

Leia

 

[mgranch]

If you're feeling overwhelmed and cannot afford the chiropractor right away, take a break. Nothing says this horse HAS TO BE DRIVEN, RIGHT NOW, NO MATTER WHAT. It's winter. It's cold which may be making him even more stiff and uncomfortable. Give him a break. Give yourself a break. Work on mental exercises that will also tire him out and be easier on both of you and are likely to help with his attitude. Research clicker training and use it to teach him some simple tricks. Research TTouch massage and work on him yourself a bit to help him relax until he can be seen by a professional. Find the good in him, focus on that and build on it until he is the horse you want him to be.

I love this!! Find the good and build on it!! That is so nice and comforting!! You are right I need to chill out and go slow and stop feeling like I have to fix everything over night!! He and I can just hang out together for a while and get to know each other better first. How funny that you mentioned clicker training I was just looking into that this week!! I did get a wonderful PM about massage techniques I can do myself!! You are so right and I appreciate the reality check!! I will start over with getting him first out of pain and then work on getting us bonded up by playing together first and not worrying about the cart for a while!! Maybe we will learn some tricks!!

 

[mgranch]

I am really sorry, you are sounding rather desperate. Rather than putting your money into a chiropractor is there anyone close to you that is an experienced horse person, preferably a good trainer? You might not need to put out the money for an entire month's training, or maybe even none at all, but if you could have them take a look at him for you they could possibly give you an idea of what the problem is. It is impossible for anyone to properly diagnose this horse via the internet no matter how much we want to try and help you. Way back at the beginning of this post you said that you saw glimpses of this horse trying to trust and become friends with you and that he wasn't always bad. Animals in pain have no way of telling us where it hurts and so they "misbehave". It is also entirely possible that he isn't actually feeling pain but hasn't had proper training, is very confused and it has lead him to this point. Please try to find some hands on help for you and him. Very best wishes that this all works out well for the both of you.

I'm sorry I get overwhelmed and do sound a bit desperate!! LOL I guess since Joe wasn't in my plan of horses for next year now that he is back again I need to look at my horses again and make a new plan. I have Rocket 4 driving one year now, Lil 9 driving a few months now and Logan coming three to start next spring so I had planned to finish Lily and start Logan while my husband drove Rocket. So, that was a pretty good plan with the new Grandaughters and working so much I felt like I could handle that. So, when Joe came home and needs so much special attention I got overwhelmed!! I had never thought of him being in pain before!! I just thought he was being bad. What if he has always been in pain and no one heard him?? How awful!! The lady who had him before couldn't do a thing with him. I felt that he actually hated her!! She said they had to tie his legs and throw him down to do his feet!! So, lack of proper training has definetely been an issue with him too!! I do his feet myself and have no problems!! I am excited by the possibility that he may be a whole new horse with getting him pain free for the first time ever!! Thanks so much I think you are dead on right with your advise to get him pain free and start over with proper training!! Now all I have to do is find the time!! LOL

 

[mininik]

I love this!! Find the good and build on it!! That is so nice and comforting!! You are right I need to chill out and go slow and stop feeling like I have to fix everything over night!! He and I can just hang out together for a while and get to know each other better first. How funny that you mentioned clicker training I was just looking into that this week!! I did get a wonderful PM about massage techniques I can do myself!! You are so right and I appreciate the reality check!! I will start over with getting him first out of pain and then work on getting us bonded up by playing together first and not worrying about the cart for a while!! Maybe we will learn some tricks!!

I'm glad you took from my post what I was trying to offer. I've learned there are far better responses to problems with animals than a bigger stick or louder voice. If an Orca doesn't want to jump through a hoop when cued at Seaworld even though he has done it before, appears perfectly healthy and seems to just be stubborn, the trainers don't yell at or hit him. (They could get killed!) Instead, the trainers must consider if he truly understands what they are asking, or if the criteria is too high, or if their cue wasn't right, or if the reward is great enough, or if the environment changed, or if they themselves changed something or may be acting off that day or if the Orca may be stressed, hurt or feeling ill, or if maybe he just needs a break. Perhaps that dolphin just isn't going to make a performer. Just because we can hit or raise our voices to our children, horses and dogs to get compliance doesn't mean we should or that it's right even when we can't find anything wrong with them and they appear to just be acting stubborn.

As far as finding the time, just think; time is all we have. You have a lifetime to help, bond with and train that horse.

http://www.clickertraining.com is an excellent source for more information.

 

[mgranch]

Oh sweetie, take a deep breath. I know it's incredibly frustrating when they're acting out and you can't seem to get a handle on where they're coming from.

I've been there! I borrowed Liz's "Pyro" this spring and while I love that little horse and he's a good boy, I simply did not have enough time and energy to deal with him and we had some real battles before I finally sent him home. He needed to be with a herd in order to be happy and at my place he had to be kept by himself while Kody got over surgery. The frustration of that caused a lot of problems for him and he started acting out. Kody's my equine soulmate- he can act up like crazy and I just deal with it and move on. I found that a horse who I didn't have such an attachment to was much harder to accept the same behavior from and it got quite stressful. Nobody's fault, it just wasn't working because I didn't have enough time for him! Now he's back where he wants to be and perfectly happy again.
We all know you're doing your best by Joe. I agree with Mininik's excellent advice- take a break! Let him eat hay and be a horse and spend time with him until you feel interested in working with him again. Talk to him and tell him what you're feeling and why you're stepping back, that it's not his fault but you need some time to get a fresh perspective on this. It may be that the two of you are simply not suited and he'd be better off with someone else who prefers that kind of challenge. Sometimes it comes down to whether or not the two of you are a good match, spiritually-speaking.

I liked what I saw of your driving in the video, you used your voice well and had that "you can trust me to lead responsibly" attitude which I think he's responding to. If you want to continue with this after some time off for you and bodywork for him I think you could make a go of it. If not, no one would blame you at all.

As you said, you can only do what you can do. Take a deep breath, enjoy the holidays, and see what happens. Heck, I notice you're in Oregon and I've been known to make trips down there in the early spring to visit my LB friends and work with them and their horses. Maybe you could bring Joe to one of our get-togethers and we could see how he does. I am NOT a trainer but I enjoy working with driving horses and trying to bring them up to their potential. It's a lot of fun for me and I'd love a look at Joe.

Leia

Thanks Leia!! I needed to hear that you thought my driving was Ok I got bashed a while back by a breed show driver(not on this forum!!) who said I used my whip too much to guide him a whip was only to be used occasionally to ask him to speed up and that I should have very tight reins and mine were too loose. I was thrilled when you said you liked my driving I needed that!! I am glad you can relate to me and Joe. I have a mare Lily who I have started in cart this year and she is my horsey soul mate!! I love her and we have so much fun together!! I just got her a Hyperbike becasue she is a tiny 30" and with the bike being so light she can do everything with me now!! So, then here comes Joe!! Do I want to put in the effort he needs to shine?? Do I have the time and energy for him?? I would rather just be with Lily honestly but feel like Joe is very special and needs a chance. So back and forth I go with commiting to him. Poor little guy no one has ever committed to him!! You did make me feel less guilty if I choose to find some one else for him when you said you let Pyro go home because you didn't have the time for him. I may not have the time either and now I feel that is OK!! What you said is soooo true!! Lily could run us off a cliff and I would just laugh and say oh she's so silly, But if Joe wiggles wrong I am stressed and thinking oh no whats he doing?? Maybe not a good match spiritually like you said. Lots to think about!! I would love to have you see him and work with us!! You said he is a little gem. Why?? What do you see?? I need a fresh prospective on him and I have got so many helpful ideas from this post!! Things I had never thought of because I couldn't see beyond the box I had put him in in my mind. I need to go look at him again with new eyes and see if we can make a fresh go at this!! Or find someone else who can help him reach his potential!! Thanks so much!! I so appreciate all the help and support from everyone!!

 

[ClickMini]

OK, I just looked at the video and haven't looked yet at all the other responses. That is a very thin breastcollar, #1. In combination with the balking and rearing, I think he may be objecting to your breastcollar. There are two ways to handle this problem, get a Freedom Collar from Chimacum or Camptown and try that. Or if this was a show cart you could wrap the wrap straps tighter to get the saddle to take some of the load. That being said, I also think your saddle is sitting too far forward on his wither, which restricts the rotation of his shoulder. Set it back a little further and I think you will see an improvement.

I also recommend that you work this guy from the ground a little more. I noticed you were "clucking" a lot to him, which they really start to tune out after a while. I am guilty of the same thing. I work with Patty Cloke every week, generally speaking. When my horse started to balk, she had me step out of the cart, cluck once, and if I didn't get a reaction give a whip tap. The tap should be as soft as it can be to get a reaction. Once you get the reaction, praise, praise, praise! Once they are reacting instantly to the cue, you can get back in the cart. This really is a HUGE safety issue. Your horse HAS to move forward on cue, and also halt and stand. If you have these two things you can get yourself out of trouble pretty easily.

One more thing I noticed is that you are allowing way to much slack on your outside rein when you turn. By allowing this, your horse falls down on his forehand and loses balance. Keep some feel on the outside rein, and if you see the outside shoulder pop out, take more feel. Get your direction going by squeezing and releasing on the inside rein. Make sure he "stands up" through his turns, diving and leaning is one of the hardest things to train out of them once they establish that is the way to do it. Make big wide sweeping turns with a green horse, nothing too tight.

Good luck!