Help Needed with driving gelding

[mgranch]

So, been driving Joe for several months now and worked thru the rearing in cart and not standing still. All had been going well until he started just stopping dead in his tracks and won't move for nothing!! We drive perfectly for a while and then with no warning and for no apparent reason he just stops and won't budge. I have no idea what to do here to correct this problem. I tried moving him back and sideways anything to get movement but nope he won't move. This is NOT going to be fun next summer in the show ring!! He doesn't get upset just won't move. Any Ideas??

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Does he act like he's staring at something? I had someone ask me about this same behavior a couple of years ago and when I got to meet the horse in person at the 2007 National Drive in KY it became clear that the young mare was a looky-loo in her open bridle and the owner simply wasn't seeing the warning signs that the mare was getting distracted until she actually stopped. I drove the mare for awhile to establish the ground rules about paying attention, then we spent some time teaching the owner to recognize the early symptoms of distraction so she could get her mind back on her job before it became an issue. If your boy is looking off to the side or raises his head to stare at something in front of him, has his ears glued in one direction or another, is arching his neck sideways to look at something, is talking to other horses, etc., these are all signs that he's not paying attention to YOU. Use gentle half-halts on the opposite rein and maybe a touch with the whip to remind him to pay attention and tell him to "walk on." Be sure to reward him when he keeps going and let him stop as soon as he stops trying to do it himself. It has to be YOUR idea, and he needs to learn that when he's good he'll be allowed to rest but stopping on his own will always result in more and harder work.

Another possible cause of behavior like this is discomfort. If his breastcollar is constricting him, there's too much weight on his back, the wheels are stuck in snow or mud and are hard to pull, etc. etc., he may refuse to move. Check absolutely everything with a fine tooth comb before assuming this is a behavioral problem. Don't overlook pulling the loaded cart yourself, I've heard of people who did that and only then realized that their wheel bearings were frozen or some such thing.

Leia

 

[whitney]

Based on this horses prior behavior rearing, etc. This maybe another way he has figured out how to get out of working.

My horses LOVE to work because they are NEVER worked hard, there is always good boys and light hands, and whip scratches.

I had a riding horse that did this same thing, just pretty much locked up. So one afternoon I out waited her took 45 minutes but the minute she stepped forward it was GOOOOOOD GIRL and shoulder scratches, and then EVERY time she took a step forward from leg pressure it was GOOOOOOOD GIRL and shoulder scratches only took the afternoon to get her over the 4 legged BRAKE.

 

[mgranch]

I guess I am assuming it is behavioral because he is a difficult horse. Like you said my other three minis love to work and go and they are just thrilled to do whatever I want and would never dream of acting up. Joe on the other hand seems to be doing what he feels he has to do but I don't get the feeling he enjoys it. He had a terrible life before I got him and he is trying!! I have so many times wanted to throw my hands up and just give up with him because my others are so much easier and I enjoy them more. But, every time I see him trying to be friendly and trying to trust me I feel like he needs a chance to be the wonderful little guy that I think is in there. He has never bonded with anyone and he is trying with me. He is only 6 and even if I don't keep him forever I want to at least make sure he can have a good life with someone else and not just get passed around. No one has ever committed to him before and let me tell you I am struggling with it too!! LOL I don't think he is getting distracted I think he is very strong willed and just decides he is done driving!!

 

[mgranch]

http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/g...08Horses034.flv

Hey, here is a short video of Joe. Just a couple minutes after the video I was driving him back to the barn and part way there he just stopped. No reason in fact I would think he would want to get back to the barn and get unhitched!! Maybe you guys will see something I am missing!!!

 

[JourneysEnd]

My guy started doing the same thing but his turned out to be a pain issue.

He had severe arthritis in his hocks and I guess that was the only way to tell us it hurt.

If it's not a pain thing, I'd just sit in the cart until he moved again.

They don't usually do it in the show ring because of the other horses. I do have a gelding that will stop and turn around in the ring and try to leave if he's allowed to get away with it. He will also find any person standing still and line up in front of them as if they were his header.

I hope it's a behavior issue with yours.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I would definitely check into pain issues with this horse. There is something wrong here and it isn't just a training issue. Go over his harness with a fine tooth comb. Have you had his teeth done recently? Get the vet out and have him give him a thorough physical after explaining the trouble you are having. This horse is trying to get a message across to you and is doing it very nicely. You may find his behaviour worsens if you don't find out NOW what is bothering him. Any horse that stops dead in his tracks on his way BACK to the barn is not trying to get out of work.

 

[horsefeather]

The film was short, but it looks like the breast strap might be a little high on his neck. However, my answer would be to call Bonnie Fogg. She is an animal comunicator and is VERY good. She can talk to your horse and perhaps he can tell her whats wrong. Best $50 you will EVER spend!!

Pam

 

[Keri]

My first thought is he's just acting up. So use the whip (its not just a decoration). I feel that if you sit there and let them do it (wait them out), they'll just keep doing it. But if they get a nice smack and a stern no (hold on becuase it'll startle them and they'll want to be bad, but just collect them down and then praise them) they'll figure out that this action doesn't have a great end result.

But after watching your video, your guy definately is not misbehaving. I would call a chiropractor and have him/her got over your horse with a nice massage. I have a friend who's gelding needs to see a chiropractor every year because he just hurts. But after stuff is popped back into place, he's fine. And he's built a little like your guy. So maybe his back or legs hurt and he needs a good adjustment. Good luck!

 

[mgranch]

Thanks everyone!! I have smacked him with the whip and got nowhere. I agree after watching the video the breast collar does look to high and maybe too tight will get a pad on it. I agree it could be a pain thing. He is only 6 but he gave me the strangest feeling the first time he quit driving that something was wrong like he didn't feel good. He came to me starved and lethargic and his hair coat was horrible. His feet hadn't been touched in at least a year. He had also been stalled and not let out for a year and had cribbed so badly he gave himself an overbite which is improving now that he has stopped cribbing. I haven't got him back to normal yet so he is still thinner than I would like. I definently need to have his teeth checked!!

 

[bfogg]

Oh my,

This little guy has a sore back.Several vertebrae are out in his croup area that gives intense and I mean intense pain in both hind legs when those movements cause those vertebrae to interact. He literally can't move until they release. He must be a good boy as he is in A LOT of pain in both hind legs.

He also has a ridge around his top teeth on the inside so his mouth is quite uncomfortable. He needs to ee a dentist but also a chiropractor right away.

Merry Christmas from me to you!!!!

Hugs

Bonnie

 

[wildoak]

Very nice Bonnie

Without the benefit of Bonnie's wonderful insight, I would agree it sounds like pain to me - I learned the hard way many years ago that horses are usually reacting to pain or discomfort when their movement is altered, and even though a skilled rider/driver may be able to push through it the problem is still there to be solved.

Jan

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I agree about the chiropractor. I had a trainer last spring work with me and Hawk. She pointed out how his body was out of alignment. After she showed me, it was even obvious to my amateur eyes. She showed me some physical therapy excercises to do with him, and I also took him to the chiropractor.

Besides his hind end being frozen, one scapula was totally dislocated!! The second visit he was much better. He will be going for yearly apointments from now on.

Hawk would not work in harness. I thought it might be temperament, but something about him kept me wondering if his body just wasn't comfortable for him. You say your Joe is willing and wants to work with you. But instintively, you know something isn't right with him. Amazingly my Hawk is working in the cart now, and I think he enjoys it!

I think once they have had pain, it takes them a while to learn to reuse their bodies, plus rebuilding atrophied muscles.

Mine also had some dental issues.

And, like yours, mine had had some rough times; I'll never know exactly.

I would definitely recommend the chiropractor. I don't know any massage therapists, but I would consider that, also.

I watched Hawk frolicing like a little circus horse this past week in the cold weather; he didn't do that last winter. What a great sight!

 

[CKC]

I'm glad Bonnie posted. I was watching his back legs and thought that maybe there was a pain issue there.

Kim

 

[mgranch]

Thanks Bonnie!! He doesn't run and play with the other horses either which I find strange!! He seems to just want to stand and be left alone. He also goes berserk if you try to lift a hind leg. Maybe all related?? So, you guys could see it in the video??

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Just a word of reason here...

Common sense alone dictates that if a horse is trotting along one moment and then stops for some reason you do NOT whack it one on the basis that it is acting up!!!

Please do NOT try this at home, kids!!

If the horse is acting up, or if it is not is basically totally irrelevant if you end up with a couple of hundred pounds of annoyed and now panicking equine in you lap because that is often the reaction of a baulking horse to being hit...rearing and going over backward!!!

If a horse baulks for no apparent reason my first reaction would be to get out and go and ask it what was wrong and to lead it on.

If you do not wish to do this the correct way to treat a baulking horse is to ask it to turn in a circle and then, once it is turning, to walk on.

Very few horses act up for no reason.

In fact, you know what??

I can't think of one.

There is always a reason, you just have to find out what it is and a dentist and a chiropracter are always a good place to start.

Be aware that a chiro is not a "quick fix" if your boy is six this is in all probability a fairly deep seated problem and is going to take a while to get it straight.

 

[mgranch]

Thanks Jane I have asked him to walk in a circle which was a no go. He is not acting up at all when he stops in fact he is very quietly calm and just standing. I will try getting out and asking him whats wrong and also getting to a vet. From my experience with big horses some horses do just baulk from time to time. Joe is very head strong and smart and when he decides he's not going to do something it is quite a fight to change his mind. Stubborn boy my Joe is!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I understand what you are saying but this is not stubbornness, and, although I have known strong willed and even stubborn horses you have to understand that there is always a reason, even if that reason is merely "I don't want to"

We do not whack kids that just say "I don't want to" do we, and horses are supposed to be willing partners, not slaves

In view of what Bonnie has told you I think we can assume Joe, in fact, is not stubborn at all, merely in pain, and has been in pain, in all probability, since you bought him.

So....not a stubborn horse at all.

If he were not so strong willed he probably would have kicked you or refused to work at all, by now!!

I would stop driving him altogether, as of now, and until such time as he has been well looked over.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

If he has been in pain for a long time, he may appear stubborn, when really he is just "shutting down" to deal with it. Prey animals do this. You might watch for some body language when you think he is being stubborn. I was shown what to look for when Hawk "shuts down". His ears lay flat and I can see by his face that he is not listening. If I wait a minute, his ears come up and he starts to chew. Then I know he is ready to process information again. Perhaps Joe IS stubborn, but it doesn't hurt to be open to some other reason for his behavior.

Vets generally do not put any confidence in chiropractors. One vet I consulted about Hawk called them "witch doctors". Large animal vets are mainly about livestock--animals that make money for their owners. And when livestock is not productive, it goes to the sale. End of treatment! So you may have trouble finding a vet who will respect the chiropractic option.

Good luck with your boy!

 

[shorthorsemom]

When I watch him turn to me looks like stifle issues too. Horses with stifle issues don't like to turn, plant the foot like that and turn stilted. They can also get nervous when you pick up the hind feet. I can also see alot of stiffness in his neck and back as mentioned. I would agree it looks like he has pain somewhere. Also is the cart a good fit for him? Seat doesn't look level and driver looks tipped back in the seat, could it put pressure upward on the shafts and on the harness and cause additional pain? That might be a stretch but thought I would mention in case anybody else thought so.

Best wishes and hope you find out what is bothering him.