gelding breeding mare

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horseplay

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I have a gelding that is very studdy and tonight he mounted and "bred" my mare. I don't know much of his history but was thinking maybe he could still produce? Not to happy about any of this, the seller says he never did it there and she had many mares, I think she is full of it, I highly doubt he was fine then arrives here and then morphs into a wild stallion breeding mares, some people
 

muffntuf

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Did you get a vet cert. saying he was gelded when you bought him? If not I would bet he was pasture gelded by previous owners and he really wasn't gelded. Mark you calendar, you may have foal next year!
 

Reijel's Mom

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I've seen a few different geldings actually penetrate a mare. I also know I have a mini gelding, who, when I bring new mares in, acts studdy immediately. With my own mares it seems like he only acts studdy around them at times when they are in season, which is actually helpful for me because I don't have a stallion here. Last year he was the one that let me know my mare was in and I then took her off to be bred, and now have the most beautiful baby in the world
.

I think when you introduce new horses to each other the excitement sometimes leads to some kind of a hormone rush, because I've had mares who are not in suddenly act in when they meet new horses.

Maybe that is what is going on with your new boy. If that's the case, nope, he sure can't make any babies.
 
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MiLo Minis

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Geldings quite often mount and "breed" mares as well as other geldings and stallions if they'll let them, particularly at this time of year. While gelding does reduce the hormonal drive considerably it doesn't totally eliminate it as they do still have some testosterone in their bodies. They don't know they can't actually do anything. Other wild things hormones can do - one of my pregnant mares "bred" another mare yesterday. She was acting quite studdy.

I wouldn't start accusing the seller of anything. It is quite possible that in his herd situation at her place he did not "breed" with anyone. Any time a new boy walks into a new herd the dynamics totally change and your gelding while he is a gelding is still a boy!

Something you do need to know though is how recently was he gelded? It takes a bit of time for the hormones to dissipate from his system AND there can still be viable sperm in his tubes for several weeks afterward which could produce a foal.
 
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horseplay

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I don't know how long ago he was gelded as soon as i mentioned this the owner said she didn't believe it as he was at her farm for 3 weeks with mares and never did a thing and now won't return any emails. he stayed over at a friends before coming here and he chased her mares and fillies and acted like a stallion, now here he is doing the same thing. he even if you take a gelding out he will sqeal and run and pace and strike at the gate. I am thinking something like a kidney stud or something. muffntuff tell me what pasture gelded is? thanks for the replies this far.
 

Ashley

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Did you get a vet cert. saying he was gelded when you bought him? If not I would bet he was pasture gelded by previous owners and he really wasn't gelded. Mark you calendar, you may have foal next year!
Not necessarly. My cousins gelding(who is nolonger with us) used to mount and breed as well. HE was gelded as a baby.

My gelding has mounted and tried before, but for the most part just does all the squealing and junk a stud does except trying to breed anymore.

When in doubt have him check, or if he isnt gelded you should beable to feel them under there, that is unless they are retained.
 

sedeh

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I have a gelding that would "breed" one particular mare when she was in season. I don't put them together anymore and I haven't noticed him doing it with anyone else. I don't know when he was gelded or if he had ever been used for breeding.......I often wonder because he is so "stud like". He actually was able to penetrate the mare but that was about all....he's definately a gelding and no babies were produced.
 

muffntuf

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Pasture gelded or proud cut or semi gelded just means it was a home job. A ferrier or someone who knows how to do it. But I have seen where they think they cut the vas deferens, etc. and they didn't cut all the way and the 'gelded' male still retained sperm and acted much like a gelding.

And you can't always feel them nuggets there. As Ashely said - he could have retained, and a nugget being missed is a possibility. Sometimes vets miss one.

And as horseplay says - when he was gelded depends on whether he has viable sperm, if it was recent, well then that explains a lot.

And Milo Minis - I wasn't asking anyone to accuse anyone of anything - I just said "Mark your calendar". I have seen to many 'gelded' (what I call the home kind of gelding) not be done right and 11 months later a nice bouncing foal appear out of no-where.

I always have a vet geld.

As far as a gelding penetrating - I haven't ever seen one do it, they were not erect enough to do the job because they don't have enough hormones to get erect. But that doesn't mean that a gelding can't I suppose.
 

Jill

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Many of my geldings (horses I have watched be gelded) can mount and penetrate mares. My vet is outstanding and there is not any doubt that the horses were properly gelded... Got another one to be gelded in just about 24 hours


"Counting up" those I've caught fully at it with a mare include my riding horse (did not see this one gelded), a leopard appy as a yearling who was gelded at 6mos, my gelding who was gelded as a 5yo stallion, and a gelding who was gelded at 1yo. Additionally, I know gelding does not take away all the interest because when we have hand bred our stallion to mares, some of (most of) our geldings watch and get erections
(no really PG way to say it but I think it's an important observation).

That said, it's possible your horse has a retained testicle. You can have his hormone level checked, I think.
 
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Nathan Luszcz

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If he has no testicles he can't get a mare pregnant. The vas deferens is just a tube, it does nothing but connect the testicles to the glands penis. You can't remove it. If you do you'd have to remove his entire urinary tract.

If he was gelded a week ago 99.99999% of the sperm are dead. They don't live for weeks.
 

horseplay

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not sure of when but I know he was gelded more then a few weeks ago. possible from the way she talked years ago and never bred anything. he certainly knows what he's doing. he was sold as a childs pony but no child could safely be around him. he acts full bore stallion (with NO manners once he sees a mare) he has to go but the problem is who in world would want him
. thanks for the replies all.
 

Laura

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If he has no testicles he can't get a mare pregnant. The vas deferens is just a tube, it does nothing but connect the testicles to the glands penis. You can't remove it. If you do you'd have to remove his entire urinary tract.

If he was gelded a week ago 99.99999% of the sperm are dead. They don't live for weeks.
[SIZE=12pt]That's not what my husband's urologist said when he got snipped
[/SIZE]

I have seen one of the country's most successful YOUTH show geldings "breed" lots of mares in MY pasture
Steve came in one day, asking if a stallion was out, as he saw two horses "doing the wild thing in the pasture"


IMO, it has a lot to do with their rank in the herd. If they are on the bottom of the totem pole at one place, they will not try to breed mares...they'll get beaten up! If they are suddenly somewhere where they can taken a higher position in the herd, they may well try to establish that dominance by acting like a herd stallion. Heck, my silly hormonal mares & fillies are all over each other~LOL
 

Reignmaker Miniatures

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I agree with Laura on this. He is using mounting as a dominance technique and didn't do it in the previous herd because he knew his standing but in the new herd he must work out where he fits so he will try to dominate anyone he can for a bit. Once he is an established member of the herd this should settle down. It could have been avoided to some extent by not putting him in with the herd right away. If he had had a chance to meet and talk over a fence for a few weeks he would have had a better understanding of his new herds dynamics. JMO
 

PromiseAcres

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I think if it were me I'd get his testerone levels checked, then you'll know for sure. I am pretty sure a blood test should tell you the answer. Then you'll know for sure. I just got a trail gelding who was doing this at my sister's place. So far we haven't seen him mount our mare but he does "protect" her from us... so I seperated them. Otherwise he doesn't act like a stud otherwise. I feel confidant that he was gelded correctly b/c I know the people that had him prior.

Just some thoughts.

Danielle
 

Margo_C-T

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It's my understanding that a horse can still act fully 'stallionlike', including ALL the behaviors, even if there is no testicle retained, but a certain 'body' that lies above the testicle has not also been removed. Our old 'rule of thumb' was that is would take roughly a month for every year the horse had been an 'ENTIRE' for it to 'lose' most/all of the associated behaviors!

We 'oldtimers' around here call this 'proud cut'..... Surely hope he settles down and doesn't continue to behave in this manner! (Any horse that did would NOT stay here; too much hassle, IMO.)

I'm with Laura; that's not what OUR doctor said to my late husband years ago, either!! I believe it was at LEAST a month before we were to provide him with a way to 'check' to be sure the operation had done its job....

Margo
 

Nathan Luszcz

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There are two commonly "blamed" parts which are said to cause a "proud cut" horse. The term "proud cut" really is a behavioral term meaning stallion-like, but there is a physical part to it too. A TRUE "proud cut" colt retains TESTICULAR tissue; the vet/castrator botched the opperation so badly as to leave a chunk of testicle behind.

The two often-blamed parts are the epididymis and the vas deferens. The vas deferens is a tube running from the testicles to the end of the penis. It connects the organs together and facilitates transport of both semen and urine out of the body. It is JUST a tube, nothing more. It in no way produces or causes any behavior.

The other part is the epididymis. This is an organ which is located right next to the testis. It is ALMOST impossible to remove the testis without removing the epididymis but it is possible. However, this organ is a holding and maturing area for sperm. It does not produce any hormones and can not in any way influence behavior. If a vet was to disect off the organ and leave it behind on purpose, all it would do is give the colt a few more days of ejaculating sperm, even though they will be dead.

In summery, a proud cut horse is a horse which shows stallion like behavior, 99% of the time it has no physical basis regarding a botched castration unless it was botched BADLY. Don't go blaming other organs, and if you must, blame the adrenal gland. Its the one producing the hormones.
 

horseplay

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Reighmaker, when I stated that the person I bought him from said he did not do it at her place with her mare she was NOT established, he was only there for a week and a half. He has been here for four months and has made a huge fuss acting studdy towards a mare in a dry lot next to him since the moment he arrived, I put a new mare in with him (he's been in with geldings) and that's when he bred her. All I know at this point is he is not staying here. can't imagine who in the world would want him, guess i am out a ton of money and have a big head ache to deal with. thanks for the replies.
 

tagalong

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In the summer of his 4th year, my Icelandic gelding discovered a new passion. Quite literally. Pastured with two Arabian geldings and 4 Arab mares, he suddenly became the stallion - driving the geldings away from "his" mares, herding them up and down the immense field - and yes, even breeding the very delighted mares. :DOH! I kept hoping that the mares would put him in his place - but nooooo. They were too busy trying to be the first in line for service. *cough*


Well, he only had a couple of days of that kind of fun - and was yanked from the pasture in disgrace. He spent the rest of the summer calling and fussing and pacing... still very much the outraged stallion seperated from his band. Come September, he changed back into a gelding as quickly as he had become the "stallion" ... and never exhibited that behaviour again.

And yes - he was gelded as a yearling.


Sometimes, you never know what may cause a specific behaviour...
 
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CyndiM

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My daughter bought a five yo stallion for a riding horse. The day after she got him here he was gelded by my vet. He was NEVER used as a stud! After the surgery was finished, I asked my vet how soon could he be put the same pasture with my mare as I did NOT want a foal. He said, "as soon as he wakes up
he is no longer fertile and can NOT settle a mare now". He also said he would be too sore to be interested for a few days. And he was.

That being said, he still, after eight years, mounts and breeds mares in season in the pasture! He hasn't been pastured with a mare within 5 miles for at least six years. But I let my daughter borrow my mare for a few days and he mounted her and bred her just as any complete stallion would.
 

Nathan Luszcz

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It does take a few days for the sperm to die off. By 7 days post-op he will still have sperm in an ejaculate but it'll be 99.99% dead.
 

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