Geld 'em!

[George]

I agree with Liz here. I do think anyone considering breeding should breed for quality, not just pet quality. The chances are good of getting pet quality with top quality horses so with two pet quality you're almost asking for more pet quality and you're also most likely breeding more than one fault into the foal. I think you do need to have a good idea of what you're doing and breeding for if you're going to breed.

I may not be an expert or even close but because of this site and even the people I sometimes disagree with, I am learning and I do go look for photos of what they're talking about just so I can get a good idea and know what to look for when I go looking for my next horse.

I also agree totally with Liz that maybe the best way for a lot of people to go is to rescue horses and work with them. I have seen lots of photo's of rescue horses that turned out absolutely beautiful. I have considered looking for a couple cast away geldings and training them as a hitch team; it won't be this year but I am seriously considering this for next year.

There is a place for pet quality breeding, as long as you are not breeding soundness problems.

Hhmmm....nope, I still don't see it being the right thing to breed for pet quality in this market.

There are so many horses to be had for far cheaper than you could breed them, if that is what you want them for.

Instead, go buy these ones going away at kill prices and save them, feed 'em, vet 'em and give them some training, and then sell them. You will be ahead of the game for what it costs to feed the mare through the Winter, worm and care for her as well as the stallion, and you don't have to lose sleep over the baby coming, nor worry that both mare and foal will die in the birth (a possibility for every foaling).

Enough of the people breeding the nicest to the nicest will have the "pet quality" outcome for whatever reason, and while still sound, they just aren't cut out for showing and/or they are not up to snuff for breeding.

Not to say EVERYONE breeding just for a pet here and there is off, or wrong, again, as long as they're considering heritable defects and the like, but that there are options and that's the point.

To breed these pet quality (well there has to be a better term, because all of my horses are pets and some are quite inarguably, still good show horses and/or breeders) for the sake of just making more of them (I can't see the profit, personally, so I can't put that in there), is really something all of us should reconsider.

The point of this thread is very near that concept.

The problem being, that there are some very large scale breeders out there who are really not doing any of us any favors with the tremendous amount of mediocre to very low quality horses heading out onto the market as well as ending up as breeding stock, when most of the have no business there just because they are no improvement on the last generation.

Liz M.

 

[nootka]

:aktion033: , George!

That's not just because you agree with me , but because you are truly looking at things and considering your best option (which benefits the animals we breed)!!

Besides, wouldnt' it be nice if "pet quality" didn't mean somehow inferior and all the minis were gorgeously proportioned....?

Yes, I know there are some that like the weiner dog style, but it's nothing to breed FOR, and a certain amount of them will always be around, but most of us truly want a small HORSE to have as a pet/companion/lawn ornament, and as long as it's getting the right care, I have no problem with that.

It's just not fair to the horses to make more of the ones that ultimately will garner a very low price on the market just because of the fact that they ARE only pet quality (as in they may have no papers, not good conformation, or other problems that keep them from being viable for show or for pleasure use, or breeding)

Liz

 

[George]

If there's one thing I wish I had done before starting my search for a mini, it is I wish I'd found this board first. I have learned so much already and I feel that if I'd found this forum first i would have had a clue as to what to look for.

I am not saying my horse isn't very nice, he is to me. However, now that I have read, re-read and looked at photo's I have an idea of what I should have been looking for when my search began. Instead, I started backwards and I am now learning to work my way forward with my next horse.

At this point, I have a very pretty horse that I am very proud to have but I now see the faults that I didn't when I first saw him. I may be wrong but I doubt he is show quality and if that is the case, although I love stallions, I will have no problem gelding him, using him for cart and companion and begin looking for a show quality stallion. I do want a stallion as that is what I like, but like I told a friend who argued with me when I said I am considering gelding, "If I'm going to have a registerd stallion and want to eventually show him I may as well have a stallion that stands a chance in the show ring."

I'm sometimes very argumentive, but at the same time I am open to learning even though I may be a stubborn cuss when it comes to learning.

I have said it once, twice and then again that there are some beautiful horses that I see on this forum and I don't mind saying when I look at some of them I do a lot of wishful thinking. And Liz, whether stallion or gelding, I do think Pyro is awesome.

I realize at times things got heated on this thread but with over 4000 views people have found it interesting and I think helpful too. Not all of us will agree but hopefully all of us will learn.

 

[Ashley]

Here is my GELDING. I got so much crap for gelding him, however he has way to many faults to ever make stallion hood, even thou at 10 he thinks he is a stud. He will tease and do all the stuff except breed(thank god).

He isnt halter quality, but does awsome in jumping/hunter/obstical and showmanship. Best of all he is my pet quality boy.

Here is my other pet quality boy/ performance horse but not halter. Somebody actually wanted to buy him as a stallion from me. Ha not happening. I would hate to see what his foals are like.

 

[nootka]

George, you've made some great points, some valid observations on this thread and others, and if you now feel better qualified to ascertain quality and correctness for your own purposes, kudos to all of us.

It's when we close our minds and eyes and start opening our mouths that we start to go backwards or stagnate.

I'm glad to see people feel they have learned from this. I really have nothing to lose or gain from people learning these things as I sell so few horses, but I do like to see our breed move forward in quality and correctness, as well as breeder responsibility.

I jumped into the middle of the recent fray over at fugly horse blog because they were ridiculing some things, but found that they and I were basically on the same page, and I understand what they were pointing fingers at. They were just doing it far more rudely than I ever would have, and I really felt like hopping in there with them with some people that refuse to change, refuse to do the right thing, but it would be nice if they lost all their "fodder" in the form of breeders becoming more responsible and every one of us making more informed and conscientious breeding decisions.

Thanks, too, about Pyro...he's a sweetheart and I can't wait til he's old enough to drive. He's such a character as well as looking pretty!

Liz M.

 

[outlawridge]

Last year I had my colt gelded and have been told by quite a few people I was crazy. He truly is what we strive for, a perfect horse in miniature. However, I felt if I would keep a colt a stallion he had to be darn near over and beyond perfect in every way! and I was hoping for black and white. This boy is all black with star and gorgeous. He makes a gorgeous GELDING and gets to be in the herd and do therapy work as well. He is a very happy boy. I have four mares and breed for ONE baby every year or every other year. I am in this for the love of them, not money and it is not a business for me. No offense to others that are in it as a business, just please, only breed those that are supreme examples of the breed, will improve the gene pool, and do NOT carry the dwarf gene (a whole other topic, I know). BTW, gelding here only cost me $75, but I would do it even if it cost much much more. All part of being responsible for the lives we have CHOSEN to bring into this world.

 

[Buckskin gal]

And for anyone promoting the breeding of minis, please make sure your mares are as good of quality as your stallion if you are really wanting to improve the breed. There aren't enough good homes for the masses of minis being bred, across the country, regardless of whether the colts are gelded or not. And please, be as responsible for the fillies you produce as you say we should be about the colts. The excuse of keeping fillies/mares because they can produce only one foal a year, is a feeble one because that one single foal will either have to be gelded or if it is a filly it will probably be the next one to be bred. I love a well conformed mini with a wonderful temperment, and that is what I strive for in buying and if and when I do a breeding. Like George, not every person buying their first mini is going to know what is the best unless they have really done thier homework.....I just hope the sellers wil be honest with those first time buyers. Most of us do keep learning and growing but it is going to take more than just gelding colts to take care of the problem of the over production of minis. Another thing that should be considered is there are not enough people to buy all those show prospects that are being advrtised...looking at the saleboards, there is as much problem in selling the ones that are show/breeding prospects as there are for pets, for many breeders. And yes, there are those who have had great sales this year but it may not be that way next or the year after with so many horses being produced.....the economy may have to be considered also. Just some food for thought and I am sure others will have different opinions. Mary

 

[nootka]

Very true. Gelding the colts (all but the very top quality/best conformed) is a start, but definitely culling the lower quality mares to pet or companion homes/just retiring them or sending them to be youth show horses instead of breeding them is another.

I do hope some easy "fix" for substandard mares is available soon....I'd love to use it when that occasion arises.

Liz M.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

It's when we close our minds and eyes and start opening our mouths that we start to go backwards or stagnate

I am going to frame that!!

It is, however, possible to keep an open mind even whilst inserting your foot in your mouth (Oh I KNOW believe me!!

: )

I think we have had some good points made, and taken, on this thread- it has been a good one, one for the archives.

"Go forth and fail to multiply until you have at least proven that you should be able to reproduce quality" should be the motto of the mini horse world.