Gathering information- why have

[hobbyhorse23]

I only have one comment to make and that is - If you don't have judges that agree with you or that at least support your view, then a rule to allow the choice of using a check or not is worthless. I mean if the judges continue to pick those with checks ( and often it appears that the higher the horse is checked the better), then who will want to drive without one?

We've got to start somewhere.

I know my horse performs worse with a check than without one as I have to keep it loose and he really resents having that thing flopping around on his neck. He bounces his head constantly in the lineups which looks absolutely obnoxious. No check, no bouncing. It would be worth it to me and I don't think I'm the only one since this proposal keeps being brought up in one form or another.

FYI, straight from an old (I don't think it has changed) Pinto Association Rule Book:In section on equipment:

"Overcheck or side checks permitted at the option of exhibitors."

I printed out the entire driving section of the 2011 Pinto rulebook this morning.

What a delightful, clear, fair, sane set of rules! I wish to God my horses had body white.

Why are green drivers allowed to show? Because how can you say they cannot? They can be excused from the ring if they are hazordous but unfortunately by the time someone sees that, the wreck or runaway has already occurred.
And I guess everyone was a green driver at some point.

Of course they were! No one said green drivers shouldn't be allowed to show, just that the situation you described of ones who have no business being in the ring yet entering big classes is scary. The horses who have only been hitched once or twice before showing are worse. If we all know that's unsafe but can't mandate against it because people have a right to use their judgement, I think the same should be true of our equipment.

I do not drive but have helped people and watched driving classes for years. For those who have never seen driving accidents it can be hard to imagine how bad they are.
The one at Congress 09 was horrible.

Driving accidents are terrible. As you said, the best solution is EDUCATION. Obviously checks didn't prevent those accidents, just as not having checks didn't prevent the ones I've seen at ADS events. May I sidetrack for a moment and ask what happened at Congress? Not sure I heard about that one.

I disagree, but that's exactly why I believe the rule needs to be changed to make it optional. Everyone should be able to make the decision that's right for them and their horse.

:yeah

That's a great summation! Think I'll put that on a post-it note above my pile of research to keep me focused.

Thanks again for the thoughts so far, everyone. It's really helping to clarify the issues in my mind.

Leia

 

[targetsmom]

I may have missed something (got sidetracked with Tease) but were you planning to mention in your argument for making checks optional that both AMHA and AMHR are now associated with the American Driving Society? So a rule change would eliminate a contradiction between the ADS and AMHR/AMHA rules and mean exhibitors could use the same equipment at ADS and breed shows.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

IMO if a horse is dangerous to drive without a check rein then you have a serious problem. They need to learn to drive without a check rein. In fact most of the time I only drive with a check on at a show, thats it. So would I like to see it optional sure I would, do I think country/pleasure division horses would drive without a check I doubt it, would I think judges place you in favor over a horse that does have a check, honestly probably not because judges see it as a safety issue.

Now honestly I would love to see this rule in the western and even obstacle driving divisions. You know how many people had to go out and buy check extenders for that class. My western horse that I have he is on the first hole and its still tighter then what I would like, sure its loose but if he drops his head to where I want it to be it gets contact with the mouth. So that would be one class I would like to see an option for checks. Another class would be obstacle driving. I don't see any reason for that class why we need a check. If your horse can't behave himself without a check in that class then he doesn't need to be in there. Plain and simple.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

IMO if a horse is dangerous to drive without a check rein then you have a serious problem. They need to learn to drive without a check rein. In fact most of the time I only drive with a check on at a show, thats it. So would I like to see it optional sure I would, do I think country/pleasure division horses would drive without a check I doubt it, would I think judges place you in favor over a horse that does have a check, honestly probably not because judges see it as a safety issue.
Now honestly I would love to see this rule in the western and even obstacle driving divisions. You know how many people had to go out and buy check extenders for that class. My western horse that I have he is on the first hole and its still tighter then what I would like, sure its loose but if he drops his head to where I want it to be it gets contact with the mouth. So that would be one class I would like to see an option for checks. Another class would be obstacle driving. I don't see any reason for that class why we need a check. If your horse can't behave himself without a check in that class then he doesn't need to be in there. Plain and simple.

I was thinking (since the check rule is reiterated individually under each class category rather than in the driving division rules as a whole) of only proposing the change for Western CP and obstacle to start. But when I looked at the obstacle rules it doesn't actually say anything about checks or other equipment, nor does it refer to another division for those rules! Did I miss something?

Mary, yes, I was hoping the partnership would be another force for change. We'll see.

Leia

 

[leeapachemoon]

I would just like to make a statement from experience. I used to jog Standardbred race horses before I moved to Florida. I can tell you that checks DO NOT stop tripping accidents or run aways!!!! And I can give you names of trainers and drivers that would say the same thing! It may help but it does not stop it from happening.

 

[kaykay]

I do wish that stewards would take a stronger stand on improperly hitched horses. If they see a driver with a horse obviously not hitched right then I think they should talk to them before the ring and strongly discourage them from going in. But I know stewards have their hands full and cant be everywhere. I know one show I called the steward over when I was helping someone new to explain to her that the cart didnt at all fit the horse she was trying to drive. She did thankfully scratch the class. I cringe thinking of what could have happened if she had gone in. Shes a forum member so I hope she doesnt mind me posting this, but I think its a good thing to know.

Please please if you are new to driving take a couple lessons on how to harness and hitch!

Sorry I am going off topic but its something I am passionate about because I see it over and over and over. I get upset because they always blame the horse for the bad drive when its not the horses fault they hitched them wrong. If the cart is hitting the horse in the butt they are going to buck! If the shafts are going into their neck they are probably going to rear!

 

[stormy]

Just a couple comments:

I don't believe the optional check will be the issue some think in the ring. I recieved a complement from a judge at one show because, though my horse was checked as his natural carriage, he wears no martingale, gives to the bit naturally without it. If the horse displays the carriage the judge is looking for I do not see them counting the horse down for not wearing a certain device.

On the topic of green drivers, at my very first Nationals I witnessed two of the top trainers in the country lose control of their horses in the ring, one run away and one crashed into the wall....very dangerous to others in the ring. Sometimes common sense just seeme to be in really short supply!!

 

[Annabellarose]

Can I just add (nothing to do with to check or not to check) that whatever proposals you do eventually put forward Leia, you are the right person to do it. Your posts/writings here on LB are always well put together, to the point and very articulate.

I have every confidence that you will be successful in getting discussions, clarification and results from your written proposals.

Anna

Hear, hear!

 

[RhineStone]

We actually almost had a wreck CAUSED by a side check. The horse threw its head down to eat grass (we didn't "let" him, he forced his own head down) and came up with the check under the shaft, which only got tighter the more he raised his head. He almost reared up and over backwards until someone was able to quickly release the check. Checks don't eliminate the potential for the horse to get it's head down, proper training does. You can bet that horse was reschooled after the check came off! (It was an ADS show where checks are optional.) Proper training heals a lot of evils.

We won't show mini shows because of the check rule. I would have to buy different equipment and it is not worth it.

Myrna