Foals poop...(sorry! LOL)

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Mona, that 'stuff' does look like the mucus/intestinal lining; I've been told (pretty sure, by my 'country vet',whom I loved and respected) that about it having a 'not-so-good' connotation even when it 'just' coats the manure, and more so, when you find globs of it such as you photographed...including that is was sloughed intestinal lining. I have a horse who rarely will produce a manure pile with two or three of the 'apples' having a slight mucus coating, and have even, a VERY few times(this horse was bred and raised here, and is now a 13 YO gelding), found 'pieces' of just the mucus---but not nearly as much as in your pics. FWIW, he is a cribber, and had a SERIOUS episode of (presumed, by me) ulcers, about a year ago, which I treated for 45 days w/ every-eight-hours, good-sized doses, of ranitidine...and he has been fine and thriving since.

That said, it sounds to me as if you are doing about all you can. The advice to back off the oil sounds logical to me, though I don't speak from personal knowledge or experience...just gut feeling. I do agree with the idea of doing all you can to hydrate her, and with 'moving around' for her; also, with the use of warm soapy water for any enema(I think I remember being told by my vet that the composition of the Fleets as they are bought isn't the best, at least, for horses.) I also suspect those who say that they aren't likely to be doing much may well be right. (I can remember from childhood, my mom having a hot water bottle with a rubber 'tubing' and a LONG--like, 6"---narrow, 'thingy', with a rounded end w/ holes in it...pretty sure that was to give enemas with, and it was used on me and my sister, I *think*--and we were pretty young children! Just seems reasonable that that a Fleets bottle isn't going to put the enema liquid far enough in to do much good--although I hasten to say that I do NOT KNOW how 'far in' it is SAFE to try to place it on young foals, either. I should qualify this by saying I only ever used enemas on newborns, and then, only once or twice, to help if the meconium was hard to pass...and I've NEVER 'oiled' ANY horse, so my opinion might be seen as biased.

The best of luck, and do keep us posted?

Margo

Can you call a 'distant' vet who will offer advice over the phone? Have anyone you have taken horses to in the past who is decent enough to do so?
 
Mona I know you are too far from a vet to get one to come for a foal who is acting fine but do you know a vet that you could e-mail with the same info you have told us and see what a vet might say about your pictures? Just a thought. Prayers that this soon passes.
 
I cannot even call my local vet to ask for information on large animals. Even though he used to do the large animals, after his hip replacement, he stopped doing it, and has not renewed his large animal license, so he is not legally able to give give advice pertaining to large animals.
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(liability problems)

Actually, I do have the email address for the locum that comes down once a month from Saskatchewan, so I will send him the "story" and the pics. Problem with doing that, is who knows how often he actually checks his email. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow! I cannot call him as it is too late for that tonight...can probably call him tomorrow though, if he is there. Thanks again for the suggestions.
 
Just wanted to add what a great job you do with no vet available. It is stressful enough with a vet nearby but with one absolutely unavailable you have to become so much more knowledgable. Thank you for sharing your issues with us as we all learn from your experience and also it makes me so much more thankful that I have a vet within 20 minutes of me that will come 24/7. I hope this all resolves quickly for you and again thank you for sharing in a situation most of us cant even imagine. Its so easy to say call the vet but without one available its a whole different ball game.
 
I think your latest poop sounds very hopeful! If it is dark with green, it might be some of the muconium (sp?) that created the blockage way up high in the intestinal tract. The muconium is black or dark green and usually like tar. It passes first and then the poop turns to mustard colored stuff, until they start nibbling on moms food and then it starts to look more like moms. I'm sure you know all this! Anyway, my point was, if you have darker colored stuff coming out......I think it is good! I know their poo turns into hard little balls (like rabbit or deer poo) when they are constipated, so maybe the dam has broke!

I'm really pulling for you!
 
I think your latest poop sounds very hopeful! If it is dark with green, it might be some of the muconium (sp?) that created the blockage way up high in the intestinal tract. The muconium is black or dark green and usually like tar. It passes first and then the poop turns to mustard colored stuff, until they start nibbling on moms food and then it starts to look more like moms. I'm sure you know all this! Anyway, my point was, if you have darker colored stuff coming out......I think it is good! I know their poo turns into hard little balls (like rabbit or deer poo) when they are constipated, so maybe the dam has broke!
I'm really pulling for you!
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OMG, you guys are all going to think I am absolutely certifiably CRAZY, but here are the pics of her poop from yesterday that I described. (again, I apologize, I kow this is getting really gross!) The pieces of straw/hay stuck to the ouside was just dirst from the pooper scooper. She still has not pooped since, but hoping maybe today it will come a little earlier again and become more frequent. I wasn;t looking, I just saw it in their stall throughout the day/night.

I emailed everything to the locum last night, and then called him but he is working I guess, and I will have to call him back at about 1:30 my time while he is on his lunch break. Will let you all know what he says.

OOPS! Forgot the pics! here they are...

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OH, YEAH! You are getting there! That looks much, much better. Who would ever thought we would be overjoyed to look at poop!
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Keep it coming little one. Keep it coming!
 
OH, YEAH! You are getting there! That looks much, much better. Who would ever thought we would be overjoyed to look at poop!
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Keep it coming little one. Keep it coming!

When you say it looks much better...do you mean you are comparing the 1st and 2nd pic against each other? They are both of the same "poop", just different angles and I pulled it apart to see the inside in the second pic.
 
Will spare you the pictures this time, but just had to say we got another poop already today! Around 11:00 or so I guess, and thankfully, it looked MUCH moister and was much softer. It still has that mucous/bile stuff throughout it in places, but I guess maybe that is to be expected if it has been sitting in there for so long irritating the bowels?? Anyway, I am feeling quite optomistic that she is on her way to a full recovery now! Thanks all for your support and suggestions etc.!! It truely is much appreciated!
 
I don't mind the pictures, I'm a "poop examiner" from way back, lol!
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I'm so glad to hear that your filly is doing better, I hope that she keeps on in that direction. You are a great "medical practitioner" with your horses, Mona, I'm impressed!
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My internet has been on the blink and I'm just reading this thread. Mona I'm glad to hear the filly is passing more "poop-like" poop!
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That other stuff looked like intestinal lining slough to me also...not a good sign but it sure sounds like your filly is improving. I'm always afraid to syringe mineral oil and I wouldn't do it often. If they do aspirate it can coat the lungs and prevent the oxygen from being exchanged.....could be why she was short of breath after exercise. If a large enough area of the lung gets coated they die. I've seen it with children in the ED that get into lamp oil etc. Anyway, just be careful using oils! Praying your filly continues to improve!
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OK, I spoke to the vet at 1:30. He said to basically keep doing what I am doing with a couple minor changes. He said I need to keep giving her the mineral oil orally, but instead of giving it once a day, to divide it up and give 15-20cc twice a day. He said there is always risk when giving mineral oil this way, but you have to take into consideration that if you don't give it, you will likely lose the foal anyway, so is a choice the owner must make. He said mineral oil is their most recommended choice of treatment as it is scentless and tasteless. He did say if I was able to milk the mare and mix the oil with her milk and get the filly to take it from a bottle, that would work best. That is not an option for me though, as I have never had any luck in getting a foal to take a bottle...ever! Also, since she is as old as she is, she likely wouldn't want to take a bottle after drinking from the mare for this long.

He said there is no sense in giving any more enemas, because he feels as I do, that the blockage is higher up, and needs to be approached from the other end with the mineral oil. He mentioned something kind of neat, that makes sense but that I never even thought to do! He said if you are wondering if the oil is getting through (I told him it doesn't look oily when the poop does come), he said to get a small container of warm water and put the stool in there and if there is oil in it, it will separate from the stool and bead up/float to the top of the water. Makes perfect sense!
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As for the antibiotics, he said the Pen G is not a good choice for possible pneumonia, and instead to try something else. He told me Excenel as an injectable ot Uniprim powder as an oral treatment. So I have called out vet clinic in Fort Frances and they are Express Posting it out today, and should be here tomorrow. Other than that, I am doing all I can.

Oh, and he felt the white stuff must be some sort of mucous, but didn;t specify more or go into more detail. He also said a foal should be pooping every 3-4 hours or so, so even though things are moving along slowly, we have a way to go yet! He said to keep giving her the mineral oil twice daily until she gets to several poops a day.
 
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Dear Mona

That looks better but do see some red in there that could be a bit of blood unless that is something else. It still is very dry but at least it is getting through a major improvement but would like to see it more moist will be interested to see what the locum has to say if you hear from him. Keep up the good work you are amazing.

Nita
 
Dear MonaThat looks better but do see some red in there that could be a bit of blood unless that is something else. It still is very dry but at least it is getting through a major improvement but would like to see it more moist will be interested to see what the locum has to say if you hear from him. Keep up the good work you are amazing.

Nita

Yes Nita, I also noticed that little spot of blood too. Here are pics of her poop from this morning. this was the very next one from the last pics I posted here, so you can definately see a noticable difference...or at least I could. I just posted too about my conversation with the vet, but I think you and I may have been typing/posting at the same time, in case you missed it.

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Well at least it seems things are moving out! I hope she will be fine in no time Mona...I know what a worry these babies can be!
 
Mona,

Glad to see things are 'moving along'!! Things look better that's for sure! Yikes!

I noticed that your last pics here show hair stuck to the poop. Are your mares shedding a lot right now? I know several people who have lost foals after birth because while trying to learn to nurse, got mouthfuls of hair from the mom, and swallowed it and got bound up on hair balls!! The babies colicked and died.

Could she have bound up on hair balls obtained while trying to learn to nurse? She would be too young to really ingest anything else.

I hope she continues to improve. She sounds like she is active, and that is good!!! I would turn them out as much as you can, despite the mud (ew!) so she can run and really get her system moving and active, etc.....

I think though in a few days she will be fine. I hope so!
 
Yes, there is hair stuck to the poop, but it is not IN it. It is hair off the floor of the barn. Yes, my horses are shedding, but I spend LOTS of time brushing and brushing and more brushing on the mares as they get close to foaling and carry on throught after they foal to help ensure there is not an overabumdance of hair that the foal can ingest.
 
When I had a foal that was kind of constipated and had mucus in his poop, my vet at the time told me he might have an infection and had me give him antibiotic (Penicillin). So, treating with antibiotics will maybe help with these intestinal problems too.
 
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I'm so glad your little girl is "moving along" and getting better. It sounds like she has a little ways to go, but is definitely getting there!


It is so odd, but only "horsey people" are so thrilled to see foal poops, I'm sure!
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That news is great. It is wonderful being around a bunch of horse people that know exactly how serious this can be as we all "say our little prays for poop" when we read these threads. Only horse people would understand
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