Foals poop...(sorry! LOL)

[Mona]

Just wondering how many poops a day is normal for a foal of a week to 10 days old. I have never known or paid attention, as I have straw bedding, so often don't see it. Just wondering how many times a day they actually do poop, and hoping those of you that use shavings might have a better idea. I am having troubles with my fiilly. She is not totally blocked, as some is moving through, but not enough, I am sure. I am working on it and have been since Sunday evening. At least SOME is better than none, right??!!

 

[Baptism]

Good question, don't be sorry. If that isn't working everything else will shut down too !

I had a foal similar to this. I didn't know exactly what was the right number of poops but my gut (and mother's instinct) told me more would be better.

I took the little filly to the vet and he determined that the last 6" (more or less) of her rectum had weak muscles or poor muscle tone. I had to give the filly a warm Ivory Soap and water enema twice a day. It got so she would be laying down sunning herself and I would walk up, make my deposit and leave without any notice. After a few minutes she would get up and poop. I did this for 2 months. I used a baby's Fleet Enema bottle.

 

[Mona]

Thanks Baptism for your reply. This is what has been going on...

The filly was born just after 2:00 Sunday, April 5. All was fine until Sunday evening, April 12. I noticed she was moving her legs alot while sleeping...like she was kicking and uncomfortable...not the usual "running in their sleep" that they often do. She was also chewing at her flanks, kicking her back legs straight out behind her, getting up and down a lot, not real active, but not depressed either. I thought maybe she was bunged up for some reason, so I gave her a Mineral Oil/warm water and soap enema. I stayed and watched until she pooped, and all that came out was what I put in, and a turd...just one, and it looked like it was being shot through a peas-shooter! She was still very uncomfortable much later into the evening, so I gave her 20-33cc of Mineral Oil orally. It was a 35cc syringe, and looked to have space for 5 more cc in the end, unmarked area. I got most into her, so am guessing it was closer to 30cc. By about 1:30, she was really acting worse, so I gave her 1/4cc Banamine to settle her and give the Mineral Oil time to kick in. She was much more at ease throughout the night. She was never thrashing around or rolling.

Monday morning I gave her another enema, this time only warm soapy water, as i wanted to be able to tell when the poop came out with the oil. Again I waited until she pooped, and again it was mostly water...no poop to speak of really. She had been eating very well all along, and peeing lots, and it was clear, so not dehydrated at all. There were a couple very tiny balls of poop and some sort of whitish, sticky something! I am thinking maybe bile from the bowel? Anyway, this basically told be she had a blockage going in, not coming out, as there should have been manure in there! I removed all the bedding from the stall, and hung a muck bucket to feed the mare her hay in, and hung it high enough the filly could not get into it. With nothing in the stall, I could monitor her bowel movements. I placed the water bucket on the floor so the filly could drink that too if she wanted, hoping to moisten whatever was plugged. She never pooped until between 6:00 and 8:30pm. I was so happy to see it! It was formed like dog poo and kind of hard, and had a touch more of that bile stuff in it. I was so excited to think we were going to be OK! All last night, all today...nothing!!! Waterwoks are A-OK, no poop! I gave her 30cc of Dioctyl today, as it works like a laxative too. She was a little more crampy again late today, but not as bad as the first night. Like clockwork, between 6:00 and 6:30 tonight, she had her second poop...only ONE poop in the 24hour period though!

This was close to the same as last one, but not as hard, but still no real sign of the mineral oil coming out yet.

By now, she should have had the "Hershey Squirts" I would have thought. I know they need to poop more often than once a day, but I am trying all I can. At least I know now that it is moving something through, and not a total blockage. I will give her more oil again tomorrow. She is more comfortable again tonight, and was playing some, and awake more. Hopefully she is starting to improve.

Before anyone tells me to go to the vet with her, we do not have one! I am doing everything I can at home for her for now, and she is not suffering...believe me, that will not happen if it gets that bad!

 

[Baptism]

Kind of sounds like a constipated texture of poop. As long as you are getting results I would sure keep up with the mild enemas and I guess the mineral oil can't hurt as long as you can get it where it needs to go. My filly, at a day of age, showed all the classic discomfort signs of colic. It is so scary to see that in a baby. I would aim for at least two poops a day. I think that will maintain comfort but I think less is still in the worrisome range. At least that is what worked for me. It would be nice to be able to add fat to the diet but that is hard to do for the little ones. I wonder if corn oil would help any. But, it sounds to me like you will for sure have to keep up enemas for awhile.

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

Mona, I am no vet but it is my experience that when there is a whiteish clear stuff around the manure, that it is actually mucous, and a sign to me that the manure has been in there too long and perhaps a bit dehydrated.. Does your foal nurse as often as normally seen? Is your mare's bag soft as usual after they nurse well? I think you are right on the mark about giving something orally also to push the manure through from above. What about a couple of cc

s of Milk of Magnesia? I do give it to adult minis to get things moving during a colic, to push through from above.

As I say, I am not a vet, but I would give that a try if I didn't have a vet to talk to.

I volunteered at U of P. New Bolton center for a few foaling seasons and it is NOT UNCOMMON to have constipation for many days after birth, from what I saw in the neonatal ICU there. They were giving enemas alot there.

Good Luck,

Robin

 

[kaykay]

As said above mucus is a bad sign meaning the manure stayed in too long (thats what my vet told me)

I happened to have our vet out a couple weeks ago and asked him to give my colt an enema as I couldnt seem to get much in him and he had really been straining for 2 days. Let me tell you vets are much more aggressive giving an enema. He gave him the entire bottle of kids fleet enema. Now normally I just squirt a little bit in but he said when they are that stopped up you have to get more aggressive. I have to say it worked and he finally passed a huge amount of manure for a little foal

I know one time also I took a 2 month filly to the hospital (colic from moms hair) and they also were very much more aggressive with enemas and gave the entire bottle in one application.

 

[1keegan]

Mona,

We're dealing with a similar situation. Our 11 day old colt passed orange manure for a couple days, then stopped pooping altogether. He didn't show as much discomfort as your little one though.

The vet came out, digitally checked him and didn't feel anything, checked for a hernia, gave him 1/2 a child's enema and got a small, dark dog-type turd. An hour later we gave the other half, without anything coming out.

The next day vet said to give 2.5 cc of mineral oil, twice a day until manure turns normal/orange again. He too, said we should be seeing the squirts soon when the mare goes into foal heat.

For 4 days now we've found one small dog-type turd each morning- they're starting to get softer, but still dark and small.

Best of luck-

LG

 

[pepperhill]

Sounds like you are doing everything right for the little guy. Just keep at it. One last thought, sometimes an aggressive tummy massage gets things moving. You have to really get in there and squeeze and rub and push things along. Sometimes you can even feel the little bricks in there. The doctor taught me that little trick with my colicky daughter and then the vet reminded me of it when I had a bound up foal a few years ago. It seemed to stimulate things to get moving and it did help. Best wishes.

 

[wildoak]

Mona, we had a similar deal with our colt this year. I gave him an enema his first day - I usually do with colts unless it's obvious they don't need it - and things loosened up temporarily. By the second day he was obviously uncomfortable and not passing anything much - what little he did pass had a good bit of mucous. This one did end up spending a couple of days at the vet, as I couldn't seem to get him going, and came home with things working pretty well (and spoiled lol). He's about 6 weeks old now and fine, but I notice that his manure is still a little on the hard side of normal.

Don't know how you do it without a vet nearby, guess you become very resourceful! I would keep at what you are doing, be sure she's nursing enough & if she's uncomfortable maybe a little tiny bit of banamine to relax her.

Jan

 

[~Lisa~]

I would do a soapy or even just plain warm water enema 2 times a day for now and I know you want to see what she is passing but is she getting turn out time at all? I think being able to run and well even have to walk around to keep up with mom for a few hours might help things get moving again as well.

 

[Joanne]

You do not want to use plain water enemas as they are to irritating to the gut. You need to use saline, soapy water, or mineral oil.

There is some concern about long term mineral oil as it can coat the gut and cause dehydration as the foal cannot absorb water due to the oil coating.

Apple juice, or even better a mix of apple juice and pedialite orally might be of help. Some foals will drink out of a margarine container and that is safer that syringing.

If mom can get out on grass and, like Lisa said, move around a bit, that might help. Mom's milk is excellent and usually keeps everything moving.

It sounds to me like a dehydration problem.

 

[Mona]

Thanks to all for your input. It is greatly appreciated! I will try to address a few things here. First of all, sorry if this is too gross, (I take these often gross pics for learning and future reference) but here are pictures of the whitish mucous stuff that came out in the enema poop.

I have not been giving any more enemas since the first 2 as I thought the impaction was up higher than that...like it's not stuck right there is her bum, but maybe up higher between her stomach and bowel?? That is why I have been trying to treat from the upper end more than the lower end. I just assumed this because they did not result in anything coming out.

Kay, I have not been too gentle with the enemas, or at least not what I think is too gentle. I give a full 4 oz enema each time, so I think that is plenty??

Jan, I gave her 1/4cc Banamine the first night when she was most uncomfortable, but I really don't want to give it unless she is in bad need of it, as I don't want to cause her ulcers right now. I am watching her like a hawk, and can see when she is too uncomfortable and can give more when it gets that bad again. I also want to be sure it doesn't just mask things making me think all is OK. She is not rolling or anything, so it's not that bad. She is definately feeling better than that first night, and she must be getting stronger or smarter, because she sure put up a battle for her mineral oil treatment this morning!

Lisa and Joanne, I have not been able to get her outside. It is MAJOR Spring here...spring melting, and my round pen off the barn is under water pretty much, and the other pen were not used throughout the winter so are all still full of snow yet. (and melting, so cannot put horses in them) DEFINTELY no green grass...that is a good month, month and a half away yet, so that is not an option at all, no way, no how.

I have been running the mare and filly up and down the barn aisleway a couple times a day so she can move around more than in the stall, but after yesterday, I played her out to bad doing it that way, and she was breathing very hard...obviously I over exerted her so don;t want to do that again! So I put a bunch of staw down along with one side of the round pen where it was not under water, and let the mare and foal out there for a short time for exercise...about 15 or 20 minutes I guess. Just long enough to give her some fresh air a chance to move around some.

As for her nursing, she is nursing a LOT! (and well!) I have been watching her almost non-stop on my barn cam and go and spend a lot of time out in the barn just watching up close and personal too. She is nursing very well! I also took the 2 or 3 gallon water pail down off the hanger in the stall, and instead put a 5 gallon pail on the floor keeping it filled to the top so she can drink that too, hoping to get more liquid in to loosen the inpaction. I normally keep the water up so the foals cannot drink much when they are so young as I have read time and time again where they fill themselves up on the water and don't nurse. BUT, that is not happening here with this girl. She has a strong voracious appetite! No problem with that.

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

hmmm. almost looks like a combination of mucous and the yellow poop after they nurse.

Just another thought... do you have any pancake syrup or molasses? Not to be gross but did you have have to "GO" after a good breakfast of pancakes? Its the pancake syrup that does it. All that sugar.

When I have a mini that colics and I can't feed it, of course, I always give a syringe full of ppancake syrup every couple of hours. It keeps their blood sugars up and maybe helps loosen things up. Not a vet, but just a thought.

I think you are right giving meds from ABOVE too.

Robin

 

[Debby - LB]

Mona bless your heart your place looks like mine right now after we had some timber cut and then had over 12 inches of rain. Anyway..for constipation in foals I use among other things, canned pumpkin. Not pumpkin pie filling but canned pureed pumpkin. They love it and it works, I've never had one who would not eat it up from a syringe. It's mega rich in fiber and you know pumpkin is kind of slimy. So if you can get some from the grocery you may can try it.

This is good for constipation AND diarrhea (a lot of people don't realize one of the best things for diarrhea is fiber) I keep a can of it here always.

 

[Joanne]

Debby what a great idea! I will remember that.

Mona I would hold back on the mineral oil as it may not be allowing hydration at this point. Your poops should come out tonight covered in the oil.

 

[Carolyn R]

Mona, I don't know if it was mentioned or not, but a little probiotic paste may help. She may not have a good accumulation of the beneficial bacteria in her gut that helps with digestion. I have given it in small amounts to young foals when they have the scours(along with paste electolites, pepto and biosponge) but that is not you problem at this point

Anyhow, electolites and probiotics have the known effect of giiving all the internals a little boost, I hope all works out with her.

 

[kaykay]

Hi Mona

I am NOT trying to scare you! But I have to say I had a rescue mare here once that did that and the vet told me it was the mare sloughing off the lining of the intestine which is a very bad sign. Your pic looks very simililar but its a little blurry on my end as I am fighting an eye infection. Is that manure mixed in or ??

On the other hand if shes nursing that well I would think things are good. Usually the first thing they do is stop nursing.

When I feed I will see how much enema mine is but I suspect its more then 4 oz??

Sending good thoughts to your girl! Why do they have to worry us like this ughhhh

 

[~Lisa~]

I do agree giving a enema with a childs fleet type of bottle is not going to go deep into their gut nor is it going to help an impaction that is not right there near the rectum the water solution is not going to travel far and around the twists and turns

So you are probobly right Mona in not giving them more often. I can say I have never seen anything like what she is passing

Mares milk is a pretty good laxative so hopefully with what you are doing and her nursing well it will help. Maybe put them in the barn aisle so she can run a bit or get some more exercise?

 

[HGFarm]

I have never seen foal poop that looks like that, or that color!!

Are we sure this foal is not having a reaction to the mares milk? They dont mix? What do you call that? Im brain dead right now at work....... You know, where they can't take the mares milk for a few days.... ???

I would surely be having a vet take a look, if you haven't already.... these little guys can crash and burn so quickly.

Something certainly wrong there... I hope your little baby does ok?! I would be worried about administering anything til at least speaking with a vet somewhere.

 

[Mona]

Well, she had a poop at around 4:00 today, which is 2-3 hours earlier than has been in the past couple of days, and this one was a different texture...more like hard little balls compacted together. It did have a bit of the white bile stuff in it, but not much. Anyway, it was also darker on the outside and more green on the inside. This poop was harder, so maybe this was part of the blockage? Hopefully it is working it's way out.

Laurie, that white stuff is not poop...it was something that came out of her...I am thinking some sort of bile from her bowel because there was nothing else left in her to come out when I gave the enemas, because whatever she was eating was not working it's way through fast enough. At least that is what I am thinking. Also, no, she is not having a reaction to the mares milk...you are thinking of the Equine equivalent to RH Factor in people. That affects the colostrum only so would only affect her the first 2 or 3 days and she is now 10 days old.

It was warm today, into the 60's and sunny, so I spread out 2 more bales of straw where the ground had no water, and let the mare and foal out for awhile a couple times today. She runs like the wind, bucking and snorting. She does not seem lethargic at all. I have had foals crash in the past and had to pull them through, so I do have experience with that, and she is not the case at all.

That said however, I mentioned before her high respiration rate after running...well this morning when I had them out the first time, she snorted and had some yellow snot come out and stick to her muzzle, so I am wondering if she aspirated some of the oil I have been giving her and got the beginnings of pneumonia. I have started her on a course of Pen G anyway, to ward off whatever it may be.