Ever had the unpleasant need to repossess a horse?

[Katiean]

I have bought horses on payments and was very thankful to be able to get them that way. I sold A TB way back when. They gave me the check. I had delivered him. I went strait to their bank with the check. The bank marked the check NON SUFFICIENT FUNDS

. I went right back to their farm and their daughter was saddling up my horse. I told her to get her saddle off of my horse and put him back in the trailer. When the dad came out and asked what was wrong. I told him he gave me a rubber check and I was taking my horse and going home. He took the check and went and got me cash.

I also sold Yorkies on payments. I would always stress to the person buying the puppy "Don't tell me a date you will pay your payment if you are going to have a problem making that payment". It also stated in my contract if one payment date was missed, the next day they were to surrender the puppy. I had 1 lady give me a bad check to cover a payment. I never deposit checks from someone I take it to their bank and cash it. When the check was no good. I called her to let her know I was coming to pick up the puppy. She discovered I was not playing at all. She got the cash and never missed another payment. I know "the next day" thing isn't normal practice, however, if they sign it, you can enforce it. An attorney wrote my contracts for my dogs.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Update in post 1. Thank you.

 

[Sheri Hill]

My hubbys brother and wife got a horse for free from some friends, later they someone take her to TRY out to see if they wanted to buy her. Found out that she was telling everyone they gave her to her and that she was planning on selling her at the Auction the next week. They went to the authorities and they then went to the Auction people and gave them a heads up and they said they will not let her sell anything there anymore and will watch for sign up of the horse. The authorities and Daves brother and wife were at the auction when she showed up. In the end he police told her she would be charged for horse theft and arrested if she didn't return the horse immediately and then she was quick to deliver the horse back to them! I would contact the authorities and see if they can help you. If you have the papers (plus her new payment plan that she defaulted on) you should have the right to repocess your horse, but I would take the police with you. Contact the police and animal control etc. and see what steps to go get it with the police.

Sheri

 

[Riverdance]

Parmala,

So sorry that you are going through this. I very rarely will sell a horse on payments and let the horse go off of my farm before they are paid for. Not unless the buyer is in the same state and I can easily go and pick it up.

As for contacting someone in AMHA and AMHR, I do not think that they get involved with this kind of thing as it seems to happen all of the time.

Good luck, and if I were you, i would go pick them up if they are close enough.

My contracts state that if the buyer quits making payments, that I am entitled to get the horse back at their expense and no monies are to be returned from the payments.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

If you can't get the sheriff to go with you, take someone who can be a reputable witness. Take pictures and keep a record of calls or electronic contact.

You might not want to let them know you are coming, as they could lock gates or move the horse.

It is a good thought to contact any local sale barns and alert them about a possible stolen horse going through.

 

[weebiscuit]

Feel free to respond here or email me or PM me. Some of the things I'm wondering is do you go through the local Sheriff's department or would you go yourself and attempt to get the horses? Are there any legal things that should be done before trying to get them...such as (I'm totally guessing here) notifying the person by certified mail of my intent to pick up the horses, giving them written timeframe to pay all that is owed before I'd do it, etc.

I've never let that happen because I never let a horse leave my property until it's been paid in full and I know for certain the check has cleared. When I don't know the buyer or have any doubt at all, I request the payment in a cashier's check and let the buyer know that the horse doesn't leave until it's cleared. I haven't had any buyers balk at that arrangement.

I feel just awful for you! But I don't think you can charge onto the property to reclaim your horses without getting arrested for trespassing. Instead of talking to the Sheriff, I think I would maybe go to the District Attorney and tell them of your situation and they might send a letter to the people telling them they have so many days to contact you to make arrangements for you to pick up your horses or else. Or perhaps just hire a regular attorney who can send them a letter by certified mail telling them they have to turn over the horses or go to court. A lot of people do not like the idea of being hauled into court, where all their friends and neighbors can find out they are cheaters.

I'm so sorry this has happened! And from now on, never let a horse leave until you have payment in full!

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Papers are worthless. All that means is you retain registration, has nothing to do with legal ownership.

 

[Reble]

Sorry but Police or sheriff, cannot do anything.

Has to now go in front of a judge.

You can try a a local credit risk management in your area.

Had to do this with a puppy not paid, filed a complaint.

They take a percentage if money is received, but does go on their credit rating.

They send a letter of notice etc., but she was not moved.

Never know they just might get worried and return the horse.

Did not get any money back or puppy but did give them bad credit rating, so to be able to get credit, would have to fix this up maybe someday.

Good Luck keep us posted.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Thanks for the advice here and via emails, etc. I contacted AMHA and they were very helpful in that they made notations in each of the horses' records that no duplicate certificates or any other workorders should be executed without contacting me first. I haven't talked with R yet. I talked with the Sheriff in her county and he was very helpful also. He said to bring paperwork showing agreement to purchase and her last email that admitted she owed me money and has her own plan outlined for payment which she already defaulted on again. I am to call him and he will send a deputy to the property with me.

It's not ideal, but I think its all I can ask for at this point.

And as a side note... I want to make something very clear as a couple of folks have made incorrect assumptions. This issue has NOTHING to do with Spirit or any horse marked as sold or sale pending on my site. All of those buyers have been wonderful!

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[Carolyn R]

I hope it all works out, hopefully all goes well and they are received in the same condition that they left your care. Such an aweful outcome.

 

[Katiean]

Well I will tell you this. technically you have no rights to the horse if it is in someone elses possession. If they refuse to give you the horse you will have to go to court. Most law enforcement will not get involved in a civil matter- contract or not and he who has possession of the horse keeps it until a court order says otherwise.

You yourself could get arrested if the person in possession calls the police on you

At least that is what I was told perhaps things have changed since then?

So basically what you are saying is if I take my horses to a private stable and the person (only boarding 1-2 horses) decides they want my horses, they can keep them? This is the same thing because someone that has no legal claim on said horses, won't let you collect them. They are not paid for so they do not belong to the person that has possession of them. Try the Brand inspector. You have the papers which is proof that these are your horses. However, you might just have to take them to court and sue for return of the horses. Tell the judge that you do not want money except for your court costs. Tell the judge you just want your horses back. They can then go to jail for contempt of court if they do not return the horses by the date the judge set.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

With everything else you've endured recently, I'm really sorry you're having to go through this too Parmela. I hope you get your horses back ASAP. With no lease or contract in the AMHA/AMHR offices and with the papers still in your possession I don't know if contacting them is necessary unless the other party is a member and you want to report them.

 

[Knottymare]

Thanks again! Seems like I've need more help lately. I'm being more of a taker than a giver these days to the forum. Sorry about that.

I doubt anyone even notices. Seems more that people like you so much they just want to help you... cuz you are always there with an encouraging word or a pat on the back.

Hang in there...

 

[Reble]

I talked with the Sheriff in her county and he was very helpful also. He said to bring paperwork showing agreement to purchase and her last email that admitted she owed me money and has her own plan outlined for payment which she already defaulted on again. I am to call him and he will send a deputy to the property with me.

It's not ideal, but I think its all I can ask for at this point.

Thanks again for all the advice!

that is good news the sheriff is trying to help. Good Luck, Hope this is solved soon with out any more problems.

 

[HGFarm]

Parmela I would go with the sheriff to the property and pick your horses up! I dont think the people would argue with the sheriff there. They know they have not paid and are ignoring you. Before you go, jot down the dates you have contacted them, and how- (phone, email, etc...) as you may have to prove that you did contact them- might even bring a copy of your phone bill and some of the emails you have sent that have gone unanswered.

I hope the horses are still there and hope they are ok!!

I will continue to sell to folks on payments, as not just everyone can go plunk down all the money at one time... I understand that. But I also have a written contract with details AND the horse does not leave my place until paid for. MOST of my buyers have been wonderful and many paid off early. So I am not going to punish others for what a couple of people didnt do.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Good idea bout contacting AMHA & AMHR, not that they can get involved but so they can make a note in the horses file that NO duplicate papers, foals aren't registered with 'your signature' without a phone call to you.

I have a couple of outstanding/behind payment cases right now. One is out of state, two aren't. I'm trying to be flexible because of the economy, but still, I'd just like it completed and to be paid.

Good luck Parmela.

 

[MindyLee]

I just reciently went through a situation with ownership of one of my mares and I contacted both AMHA and AMHR. AMHA sent me a letter in the mail stating I was indeed the true owner of my mare and had been for a couple of yrs. AMHR did'nt really want to get involved but did send me a letter stating the same thing, I was the true owner and had been for a couple of yrs also. That way since my situation was going to small claims court, I had proof that I did truely owned this mare and records from both registries proved it and that nothing was altered.

Good Luck and hope you get them back!

 

[SampleMM]

I had to repo a Quarter Horse gelding for a friend about a month ago. We were really lucky and found out that the horse was going for x-rays at a vet hospital about 2 1/2 hours away from us. I hooked up the truck and trailer and after the exam and x-rays were done, my friend and I told the vet who the rightful owner was and we loaded up the horse and left. It sounds sneaky but these people jerked my friend around for months and had ample opportunity to pay for him. She was told excuse after excuse and these people had the nerve to bad mouth us for taking the horse. Last time I checked, a horse w/ over 300 AQHA points........isn't free.

This story has a very happy ending though, a week after the repo and handicap boy tried him out and loves him to pieces. It was a win/win for everyone.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

So basically what you are saying is if I take my horses to a private stable and the person (only boarding 1-2 horses) decides they want my horses, they can keep them? This is the same thing because someone that has no legal claim on said horses, won't let you collect them. They are not paid for so they do not belong to the person that has possession of them. Try the Brand inspector. You have the papers which is proof that these are your horses. However, you might just have to take them to court and sue for return of the horses. Tell the judge that you do not want money except for your court costs. Tell the judge you just want your horses back. They can then go to jail for contempt of court if they do not return the horses by the date the judge set.

No, it is not the same thing at all.

With one you have contracted to keep your horses there, not contracted to sell.

With the other you allowed the animal to leave your property willingly, and with foreknowledge of the fact, but with the assumption of payment.

So, if payments have been made (I am assuming that some of the price has been paid?) the horse is no longer yours, per se, only a part of the horse!

IF the contract had stated intention to repossess should any default of payment be made, you would be on stronger ground, that is the way that car sales go, but it is very rarely the firm that sells the car that makes the agreement, it is a private loan firm that makes and enforces the agreement.

In the case of the horses boarded, you would still have to go through the law, technically, to repossess the horses, as you have no rights to enter private property in order to get your horses- in fact, most law officers would quietly take you on the property and stand around being "there" whilst you get them, which is all they can do- they will not help you repossess them and neither will the ones that are accompanying Parmela- they have no rights and, if challenged, can stretch the law a bit, but if the gates are locked and entry is denied they will be able to do nothing, so give NO indication you are intending to do this.

It cuts both ways- you might be lying, the paperwork could be false, the owner might have paid for the horses and have received no bill of sale form you- how would you feel if all this had happened then the Law cam and made you give up the horses?

 

[mizbeth]

When I finance a horse I always put a clause in the contract to cover this exact thing, that the buyer will allow you to come and get the horse without legal/court action in case of default. I once (nearly) repossed a horse in NM., I was in Texas. The lady finally came up with all the money to pay him off and did so once I had secured the hauler to go and get him.

Out of state transactions like this are hard to coordinate though, most haulers do not want to get involved and the cost to get the horse back could be prohibitive. I do not finanace out of state horses anymore, without a large down payment in any case.

If you ever do go to court, the Judge can rule in anyones favor, sometimes courts do not make sense or do the right thing.