Driving question...

[MagicTheMini]

How do I prevent my reins from getting caught on the shafts? My horse likes to turn his head around and look at me or just overflex his neck which cause my reins to get stuck. Thanks! Lindsey

 

[Sue_C.]

Chances are, your shaves are too far foreward. they should only come to the point of the shoulder. Also, I would try to keep the horse from looking back, if you can. A rein caught on the shaves can very easily turn into a runaway situation.

 

[Sunny]

If you run the lines under the breast collar strap that goes over the horse's neck, and then to the bit, it greatly reduces the risk of getting hung up on the shafts. And as Sue suggested, make sure that your cart isn't too far forward.

Hope this helps.

 

[MagicTheMini]

Thanks for the replies! I have checked the shaves and they are at the point of his shoulder and I will double check today. I also try to prevent him from looking back, but it is not possible to eliminate it. He also has a problem overflexing. I don't think I can run the reins under the strap over his neck because I will loose the rein influence. Any more suggestions? Thanks! L

 

[ThreeCFarm]

I also try to prevent him from looking back, but it is not possible to eliminate it. He also has a problem overflexing.

You prevent it by keeping contact with his mouth at all times (note: that doesn't mean you must be pulling on him!). He can't look back at you on the left, if you are keeping his head straight with the right rein, and vice versa.

What do you mean by overflexing? When turning, or is he behind the bit?

 

[MagicTheMini]

He is behind the bit and when turning left and right. I have been riding for many years and I know that he is very incorrect, but I don't know how to fix him. We are getting better, but we need a lot of work on bending through the body and coming into the contact. Any pointers would be great! Thanks! Lindsey

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Are you using a martingale? What bit are you using? Do you have an over check or a side check? You should be able to hold his head and when he tries to swing it right or left take your pinky finger and wiggle the rein on the opposite side to help him stay still. Im assuming this only occurs when he is standing still.... he had has that much play in the reins when moving out you have to take better hold of his head so he cant bauble side to side.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[MagicTheMini]

I do not have a martingale. I would prefer not to use one. I don't know if it would work or not. His bit is a half cheek copper french link snaffle. I don't like it and I don't think he does either. I was nice and he liked it when I first got it but now I think I has some sharp edges. I also have a regular SS one joint snaffle that I want to switch him back to. I do have both an over check and a side check, neither of which I use on a normal basis. I have never used the over check on him and I usually only use the side check for the shows (and a few times right before). He has gotten stuck with the side check on. He does respond well to the reins when I ask him to come back. I think I do give him too much rein while we are working. We mainly get stuck while turning, he turns his neck too much and gets stuck.

So, I think its back to ground driving and working on acceptance of the bit and proper bending. Any pointers? He is a very sensitive guy, so we have problems with the whip. I need to work on that. It is hard, I much prefer riding

: where you have the influence of your legs on the horse.

Does any one know where I can find a regular half cheek french link snaffle?

Thanks for all the replies! Lindsey

 

[ThreeCFarm]

He has gotten stuck with the side check on.... I think I do give him too much rein while we are working. We mainly get stuck while turning, he turns his neck too much and gets stuck.

So, I think its back to ground driving and working on acceptance of the bit and proper bending.

Going back to ground driving isn't going to fix the bending issues. He is doing it because you are giving him too much rein. It sounds like you are "throwing away" your outside rein in your turns. It is your outside rein that controls how small/sharp of a turn he makes, and the amount of bend in his neck. In other words, your inside rein tells him to turn, but your outside rein tells him how much. This is also true in riding, unless you always neck reined, in which case you were pretty much only relying on your legs.

What do you mean he has gotten stuck with the check on?

What makes you think he doesn't like the bit? You can visibly see and/or feel for sharp edges, so that is an easy question to answer. Have you had his teeth checked? He may need floated.

 

[MiLo Minis]

If he is getting his head turned so far that he can catch his rein on the shaft when you are turning you are definitely NOT using enough outside rein in your turns. I would like to suggest for the overbent behind the bit problem that you use a check bit but it doesn't sound like you have good enough hands just yet to even try one. I don't believe in an overcheck except to correct a problem like this. If he is not accepting the bit I would get his teeth checked first then try a different bit. Does the bit you are using now fit him correctly? Minis tend to have a very shallow palate and quite often bits are too thick for them. Running the lines through his breast collar would interfere with the rein action for sure - wouldn't do it. I would start by going back and asking for forward movement in large circles with very round corners - no sharp turns. Work on correcting your rein actions giving only enough with the outside rein to keep on your track. Gradually over weeks of doing this sharpen your corners - this will allow both you and he to learn where your hands and his head should be. The whole time you should be asking for forward (brisk) trot in both directions, don't allow him to lollygag along. Work on establishing a good even rythym with nice gradual turns.

 

[Boinky]

I agree with 3 C's last post. It sounds like you are throwing away our outside rein. I'm from a very dressagey background and beleive in the concept of inside leg to outside rein. this concept also applies to driving, however your WHIP will be your leg. "tap tap tap" your horse with the whip while maintaining a firm contact with the outside rein and slightly pulling the inside rein. do not pull the inside rein too much..only slightly just enough for him to relise you want him to turn. the outside rein should block the outside shoulder and stop it from falling through and the "tap tap tap" should be your leg to drive the horse into the outside rein and create the apropriate bend and turn. If your horse is whip sensitive than he needs to get used to it. start out by little taps that he barely feels and voice (dont' be afraid to use your voice)..... if that's all he needs great..if not then don't be afraid to give slightly stronger taps. work him up to MORE whip contact. your whip is your friend (and i'm not sayign BEAT your horse with it) i'm saying use it as you would use your leg. dont' be afraid to tap with it consistently if need be to drive your horse. this will ALSO come into effect with him comming behind the bit. you need to ge thim comming through himself more. drive him forward with your "leg" and voice comands and push him into contact. i would also think about putting a mullen mouth (straight bar) on him..it is the mildest form of bit and if he's very soft in the mouth there is no reason he shouldn't easily go in a mullen and probably be happier with it. it is essentially the same as riding only you don't have your legs, but your whip makes up for your leg. Sure i'd rather ride any day of the week..but i've also found drivign to be a new challenge which i enjoy, just like when i started riding sidesaddle. It was encredible to learn how to ride with only one leg on a horse that was trained with two legs! lol you have to use your right hand whip as your leg...wasn't so hard once i got used to it..but it was certainly differnt and a new challenge.

 

[MagicTheMini]

Ok I hope I respond to everything. The bit: I can feel the sharp edges and I isn't too think for his mouth, infact i think it may be to thin and harsh. I will get a mullen mouth for him. I got the french link because of the low pallet and he was throwing his head with the single joint, which he stopped with the french link until recently. His teeth: He gets his teeth done every year by the dentist, its real indepth not just floating. He was done in August and he has never had any problems with his teeth.

I also have a very dressagey background and I'm not sure why I am having so much trouble with the switch. I will get out my whip and start to "use my leg." I will also make sure I keep the contact, espicially when turning. I am also lacking an arena which is also part of the problem. I have to drive out on the street and so we HAVE to make sharp turns inorder to turn around and we mostly drive straight. This is why I thought ground driving. I can do that in my yard, but the ground is uneven so I can't drive in it. Thanks for all the help! We will be off to work tomorrow and practicing. Lindsey

 

[stormo41]

I had this problem with my old horse. but was because after we stod still for a while he threw his head. This happened once while someone else was driving him, of course and experinced person was at the reins. he threw himseld to the ground (he liked that trick

: ) . what i did to stop this was take him and ground drive him, i halted him, and when he started to move his head around i hit the whip on the ground and said no, so he stoped, we did this for a while with the ground driving. before moving to the cart, he did not move his head around like that ever again for me. I'm not sure if what i did with him was right answer for every horse, but i knew him very well, so i knew what would work best with him.

 

[SkipsMom]

My shoe/saddle repair guy ordered what I think are called "breast strap turretts" and put them on the breast collar strap. The reins go from the bit, through these rings and then through the rings on the saddle. This takes out some of the drap and slack. However, I don't do breed shows, just honest to goodness pleasure driving w/ an eye on CDE's and they are allowed in both.

 

[justaboutgeese]

I also think you do not have enough contact with the horses mouth. If he can flex his head around enough to catch a line on the shaft the outside rein is to slack. I have had many hackneys that would literally run away with you on slack lines. Some horse will tend to lean into the bit for "support" and the looser the reins the faster you will be traveling.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

You've gotten some good advice here, along with some things I'd probably leave alone if it was me. I agree with the NO martingale, NO checks thing. A check is a temporary fix that teaches the horse nothing about using himself unless it is in the most expert of hands. An overcheck would keep him from overflexing his neck, but unless you also coupled it with driving him more forward and teaching him to balance himself properly and then gently phased it out all it would do is fix the problem while you used it.

Have you considered that your shafts may be too wide? If I recall the pictures you posted a while ago your cart was pretty big on your horse. Even if the shafts are now far enough back, if they are too wide the reins will catch. Mine sometimes get stuck under the strap ends of my breastcollar when we're standing or if he massively drops a shoulder and overbends because they are too long and stick out under the keepers (something I am fixing before this show season). Terrets on the neckstrap are not seen in the breed ring, but they are a good idea and I bet you could rig something like that on a temporary basis. I thought that the extra rings would affect the play of my own reins and was reluctant to use them but now that I have I really haven't noticed any difference at all. It just helps remind me that I can't broaden my hands and direct the horse to "follow my hand" into a bend like I would a beginning western horse! LOL. Makes me a better driver.

: You could probably just secure some bailing twine around the middle of the strap and then have it drop down on each side to where you've tied it into loops. It doesn't really have to be stationary on the breastcollar, just at even heights and servicable to keep the reins up.

Get him a bit that does not have sharp edges and I think the suggestion to try a mullen is a good one. I'm not so strong on my bitting expertise but it seems to me that a mullen rests more on the tongue and will not hit the bars as strongly while holding regular contact. He may feel more comfortable moving forward into that gentler feel. Use the whip, use a strong supporting outside rein. To add one comment to the discussion of "inside hand," you are not going to pull him into a turn so much as you are going to give and release, bumping him gently and wooing him into giving his jaw to that side. The inside rein develops the bend, the outside rein supports the shoulders and determines the size of the circle by how much you give. The whip steps in to push that inside shoulder back up if the horse starts to fall into the circle. This is where a whip with a nice supple lash is easier to handle (with practice, LOL) then a stiff whip. I need a lot of practice with this kind of reining myself! I have trouble when I can't use my bodyweight and inside leg to keep the horse on the circle.

When you get it right with that outside rein you will know. I had this epiphany moment at a clinic last year where we were circling tightly in a hazard and my gelding just wasn't bending fast enough to make the corner. I'd been pulling him into it with the inside rein and of course he was overbending and his shoulder was popping out so he couldn't swing the heavy cart. (This was also a lack of forward energy. When we got straightened out the energy went straight from his haunches to his head and he started pulling into the traces with power, so we speeded up, smoothed out, and turned sharper.) Anyway, without thinking I firmed the outside rein like soft elastic and sat back on my tailbone, mentally deepening my seat and looking where we were going and all of a sudden it felt like I had physically picked up his outside shoulder with a leg aid and he coiled his haunches and started crossing his front legs over at the trot and swung into the tight turn like a pro. I said "Wow!" For a moment I understood the power of that outside rein and I try to get a little of that back each time I drive.

Hope some of that was helpful. Check the cart, hold better contact on a bit he will accept that from, teach him to work forward so he stops overflexing, and use rein terrets on the breastcollar as a safety precaution until you've resolved the basic issue.

Good thread!

Leia

 

[MagicTheMini]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I am looking into getting him a mullen mouth bit and in the mean time I will switch to the snaffle with no sharp points. I would also have to agree that my shafts are too wide. My reins also like to get stuck on the extra breast collar hangers. I do like to give him a long rein while walking, but I guess I souldn't. We will work on keeping outside rein contact when turning and using the whip. Thanks for all your help! L

I found a martingale of sorts (although I have no idea how it would work on a riding horse) that had a ring on each end joined by a piece of leather (it resembled a bit). I thought this my work to keep my reins together...any thoughts? Thanks! Lindsey

 

[whitney]

It seems to me I recall seeing harnesses with a ring on the breast collar strap that the reins go through? I would just sew some of those in if you don't have them.

 

[Ashley]

You need a martingal..........with stops on the reins. Then he can only turn so far and cant get stuck on the shafts.

Trust me its a accident waiting to happen with out it. I have a gelding that does the same thing. Well I miss placed my martingal one time.....so was driving in a show with out it. He was fine driveing but in the class he got stuck reared up and pulled his the whole head set right off of him when he came down. Luckly my gelding is vertually as bomb proof as they come and he wasnt phased by it, and that my header was there to get it back on. But he did destroy the harness.

Has he had his wolf teeth out?

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

I am another one that HATES martingales and checks for driving. I started driving ADS against big ponies so I guess I don't see the point of either. I just saw a place to buy the turrets to add to a mini harness but I can't remember where I found them. Almost all of the big horse harnesses have them on the breastcollar neck loop so I don't know why they don't do that for minis. Then again I don't know why I couldn't find a mini bucking strap to train with and for trail drives either...seems like s no brainer to me--esp after having a bucking horse dump me when he got stung.

Anyway, I will look and see if I can find those small turrets, but even with those you have to keep contact on those reins or they won't help.

Hey Kim...what is your take in this one??

-Amy