Driving question...

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
He has had his wolf teeth out. They were pulled before he ever had a bit on and he has bit seats and gets COMPLETE dental work every year. I will feel his teeth today, though, just to make sure. I will also look for turrets for the breat collar strap. I don't mind showing at breed shows with unconventional tack, this year I'm with my breeching, OH MY!
default_wink.png
: On a regular basis I drive in an open bridle, with no check, and with breeching. I am against extras unless they are necessary (or required like the check and blinders), so if someone can elaborate on why I need a martingale and how it would help I might look more into it. I just don't see how it can benefit me because even with a martingale he can still turn his head. Thanks everyone for your replies! Lindsey
 
I'm another that doesn't like martingales; some say they are a safety issue, but I personally don't agree. I don't see one being of any help in your case. I think the main thing is to keep contact, and make sure you do use outside rein when making your turns. I don't drive on streets, but I do drive on gravel roads with deep ditches on both sides--I used to drive the Morgans on these same roads & could turn right around without bending the horse's neck around & without giving up that outside rein--turning a Mini around on the same road is just that much easier--there's oodles of room!

It is also possible to drive your horse in a relaxed frame, on light contact, without letting your lines droop so far that one will hook on the shaft if the horse turns his head a bit--& without letting him turn his head so far to the side.
 
Lindsey, you are correct in that a martingale will not hinder his head turning. Martingales prevent a horse from holding their heads too high, so I don't see how it would help you.

As to your having to turn sharply in the street, it doesn't matter how tight of a turn you make, the horse doesn't need to turn his head much. Have you ever watched someone turn a driving horse while keeping the inside wheel in place as a pivot? The horse bends slightly in the direction of the turn, and then kind of sidesteps around the turn. Even a reining horse doesn't bend their necks all the way around.

Bend him enough so that he knows which direction to go, and then push him through the turn with your voice and/or whip if necessary.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok...I just came in from my drive...It didn't go so well. For some reason he was very excited so we had no problems with the "very forward trot" part. I think adding the whip increased the excitment. Next time he will run before the drive. I think the problem has gone in a different direction...We have NO BEND. If I ask him to turn left the shoulders and neck come left and the butt falls right, and the opposite happens when turning right. I applied pressure with the whip to the butt which was met with resistance and sometimes a lot of resistance. He doesn't over turn his head which I originally thought. So, any new pointers? I think I need to go back to the ground and work out the resistance to the whip. Any other thoughts? Thanks! L
 
Sorry to hijack this thread for a moment but ThreeC, I went to your website and saw your sweet aged gelding Dino. I have a soft spot for the senior equines. How long have you all owned him? What is the story behind him?? He looks like a sweetie.
 
Skips Mom, PM's are good! LOL

Lindsey, I sympathize with your problems with only being able to drive on the road. I do a lot of serpentining up and down our street at a walk just concentrating on softness and bending. It's kind of scary driving them when they're feeling hot like that, at least it is for me, but I've learned that the more I choke up on him the more likely he is to explode. If I just let him work through it I soon find him settling into that steady rhythmic trot we all find so desirable.

Definitely go back to the groundwork until he accepts the whip. Were you driving him in an open bridle today? I'd always thought that a whip would be scarier when they couldn't see it coming, but one school of thought says that the sight of a lash flicking through the air towards their sides can make them jumpy. Sack him out with it, use it in regular groundwork like sidepassing and pivoting, just generally carry it at all times and tap him with it as a matter of course (no fan fare at all) until he understands it's just a piece of equipment that tells him something useful. Then YOU understand that when you're driving him he will still think it's a whole different ballgame at first! LOL.

We have NO BEND. If I ask him to turn left the shoulders and neck come left and the butt falls right, and the opposite happens when turning right. I applied pressure with the whip to the butt which was met with resistance and sometimes a lot of resistance.
Part of your problem here is that you aren't using the whip on the right body part. Think about it, Lindsey: the butt is the power, the front end provides the direction. Is his butt falling to the right, or is his shoulder falling too far to the left and leaving his butt behind?
default_poke.gif
: I initially used the whip to tap my horse's hindquarters over on a variety of manuevers and had to be set straight by a professional. You don't need to be correcting his rump, you need to pick up that shoulder he's dropping and get him to lift it up again. Whip to inside shoulder. Remember, it's your leg. You control a horse's rump while riding with your legs on his barrel, not on his hip. It IS possible! LOL.

Just take this whole thing slow and easy. Don't make the same mistake I tend to and get so caught up in fighting them on the position of each and every little part of the body that you lose all forward motion and get both of you tangled up and angry. Dressage is motion. Driving is motion. Get the motion first and the rest will follow naturely and without stress. Big swooping curves, then tighter and tighter for more precision as the horse builds muscle. And REWARD! If he softens his jaw and gives for a moment, give back and let him walk out of that turn. Don't throw away your contact, but soften in response and tell him good boy. One little step at a time so he can tell when he's done something right. Remember, he has no idea what you want. As far as he knows you're telling him turn and stay straight, stop and go, look but don't look. You'd be confused too! Make it easy for him to tell what you're asking by breaking it down into little steps. "Soften your jaw." "Soften your jaw and give to the rein, even for just a moment. Good!" "Now soften, give, and reach down a little. Good!" "Follow your nose into that turn, staying soft and supple. Good!" Then it's just a matter of slowly adding more contact and speed (from walk to trot) and reinforcing good habits.

You aren't pulling the horse into a turn by his head, you are simply modifying his path a little with gentle bumps. It's all still about going forward, not going around.

Have I babbled enough yet trying to find the right words?
default_wacko.png
: :risa_suelos:

Leia
 
Go back to ground driving ONLY, NOW do NOT pass go, do NOT put this horse back in the cart, something is WRONG!!!!

OK
default_yes.gif
:

Try ground driving without a bit, and see if yo can get some really gentle bends- do not ask for or attempt to force any turns or you are going to meet resistance.

You need to reeducate your horse from step one, I'm afraid, not attempt to force him into compliance with aids and inducements!!

You also need him checked out by a Chiropractor, have his back, neck and rump areas checked very thoroughly. Horses can put put a vertebra out at the drop of a hat, no "injury" necessary, merely using the wrong muscles for a length of time can do it.

This horse appears to have been attempting to tell you something for some time, it is time to stand back and listen.

Take out the bit, stop using the whip , ground drive him and LISTEN to what he is trying to say.

As soon as you do, he will start talking.

No matter how much you do not want this to be the answer there is no quick fix, here, if you go on you are going to get badly hurt and the horse could get killed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would like to suggest that you find someone knowledgeable in your area to give you some help. We can all give you advice over the Forum but we aren't there seeing exactly what is going on and therefore can't be sure that the advice we are giving you is really what is needed. It is obvious that there is a problem
default_yes.gif
: and that you need some help. It would in my opinion be a very good time for you to "in person" help. Get yourself an instructor or trainer.
 
Yes, I agree- we are not actually able to see what is going on and you really cannot beat "hands on".

Get help, but please do not put him back in the cart before you do|!!!
default_smile.png
 
Today we will ground drive in the halter. Yesterday he was in the open bridle, he is even more reactive with the blinders. I have "sacked him out" (I don't know why but that trem gives me bad thoughts) with the whip and he is good. He will just stand there while it makes its noise and I swing it around, but we will do more. I was using the whip at the hindquarters as a supporting outside "leg." It did help a little. I will try lifting his shoulder with it though. He is falling on his shoulder AND falling out with his rump. I do think that help would be great, as would a chiropractor (my big horse needs it too), but right now neither are possible right now. I do not have the money so unless someone wants to do it for free
default_wink.png
: I do appreciate all the help! Lindsey
 
I do think that help would be great, as would a chiropractor (my big horse needs it too), but right now neither are possible right now. I do not have the money so unless someone wants to do it for free I do appreciate all the help! Lindsey

If you truelly think your horse needs a chiropractor then why the heck are you putting so much stress on his body????????
 
He will just stand there while it makes its noise and I swing it around, but we will do more.
Yep, "sacking out" means to touch the horse all over with the scary object (like a sack, LOL). Noise and swinging it is good but that's only the first step.

I was using the whip at the hindquarters as a supporting outside "leg." It did help a little. I will try lifting his shoulder with it though. He is falling on his shoulder AND falling out with his rump.
I know, that was my theory when I drove like that too. Or rather that in my case the horse seemed to be getting all locked up in his shoulders trying to figure out how to pivot sideways and didn't seem to realize he needed to go forward too, so I used the whip to bump him up from the low side of his outside hip. Okay as far as it goes, but no good at all when trying to do bending on big circles. That's what that regulating outside rein is for.

Think big figures when you get back to driving. BIG swooping hourglass shapes from one end of the ring to the other, endlessly, until he settles down and moves easily into his bends. Meanwhile, I agree it would be best to find someone local to take a look at exactly what is going on and help you out in person. Anyone from the forum live near her??

Leia
 
Ashley, I appreciate your concern for my horse (I really do, I know emotions can't be read) but I don't truly think he needs a chiropractor. It would be nice for him, but not necessary.

Hobbyhorse--I see...Supporting outside rein, lift inside shoulder with the whip...will practice...

There are forum member that live near me. Magic and I took a lesson with Disneyhorse last year, before we started showing, and she was VERY nice and VERY helpful, but it was just a how to be prepared for showing. I can work, clean stalls, feed, water, groom ect. I have lots of horse experience...
default_wink.png
: I just don't have the money for lessons...any takers...hehe...Thanks again! Lindsey
 
A couple of years ago, I bought a great little book called, "Shiatsu Therapy for Horses" by Pamela Hannay. It has a portion in the back that is for ponies/minis, and I love it, as do my horses. There are some great stretching and suppling excersises, that I think will help your horse a lot.
default_yes.gif
:
 
Whereabouts are you located Lindsay? I bet there are knowledgeable people close by. Even one lesson could be a big help, I only charge $35 for a lesson which is about average - I would consider it money well invested and I bet your horse would too!
default_yes.gif
:
 
Yes. In riding it seems like we hear "supporting outside rein" and we think of it as a way of steadying them while our legs and weight do the signaling. In driving, it's really a supporting outside rein- sort of like a friend they lean on! Without actually leaning, of course. You don't make your hand any harder or firmer, it's more a matter of having what I guess I'd call "stiffer elastic" in your elbow on those turns.

I still find myself using my whole body when I drive. I mentally rock my weight back onto my tailbone when I ask him to pivot or step over, always look where I'm going, and utilize the seat and floorboards to give myself the same purchase I would have found in my stirrups. Horses are very very attuned to our bodies- I'm convinced even when they can't see us they feel every little shift in our weight and attention and respond to it. Just let your consciousness flow along those reins!
default_yes.gif
: I've been lucky enough to have those rare rare moments where it feels like Kody's in my head and I'm in his body and we're working together so tight it's like we're one creature, but that's a lot harder to find while driving then when mounted. I've only found it near the end of a really good cones run so far. Twice, to be precise. LOL

Sorry, I know I've gone totally outside the scope of this thread. This has turned into a neat dressage and training thread and I'm afraid I got a bit carried away. Talk to disneyhorse, see if she's got time to take a look at what's going on and give you a lesson. If not, grounddrive grounddrive grounddrive until you're both comfortable with all the basics.

Leia
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"I still find myself using my whole body when I drive. I mentally rock my weight back onto my tailbone when I ask him to pivot or step over, always look where I'm going, and utilize the seat and floorboards to give myself the same purchase I would have found in my stirrups. Horses are very very attuned to our bodies- I'm convinced even when they can't see us they feel every little shift in our weight and attention and respond to it. Just let your consciousness flow along those reins!
default_yes.gif
: I've been lucky enough to have those rare rare moments where it feels like Kody's in my head and I'm in his body and we're working together so tight it's like we're one creature, but that's a lot harder to find while driving then when mounted. I've only found it near the end of a really good cones run so far. Twice, to be precise. LOL"

I know how you feel Leia! I know when riding if I really thought hard about doing something and didn't consciously give any physical cues it seemed like my horse picked up on my thoughts although I believe that your conscious thoughts cause you to unconsciously give the cues only very subtly which is the essence of riding. I have driven cones with my Willie and had the same effect. Rather than driving the course I "thought" it and we just flowed through it. I can't seem to get the same feeling doing a walk, trot show ring

thing maybe because it is too stiff and formal and disjointed when you don't exactly know whats coming next. I have driven dressage tests and still can't seem to get that feeling going but when I do obstacle courses in a show I can have moments, I think because I do the course in my head before going in the ring and then think my way through it while in there.
 
I can't seem to get the same feeling doing a walk, trot show ring thing maybe because it is too stiff and formal and disjointed when you don't exactly know whats coming next. I have driven dressage tests and still can't seem to get that feeling going but when I do obstacle courses in a show I can have moments
Part of it is the fact that for it to be a true partnership moment the horse has to be as into it as you are. Horses don't generally get the show-ring thing as being a priority they understand, and while they can learn to like or even love dressage they don't have the pattern in their head so it takes more practice and being tuned into each other to hit that magic moment. In cones, they can see the goal and enjoy it as a fun game the two of you are really doing together and not just something you are asking them to do.

The smarter the horse, the more pride they take in doing as much of the thinking as you are. And when it works: BOOM! Magic, baby.
default_thumbup.gif
:
 
Well today we worked on the ground. I did some streatching before we started and I lounged him before I ground drove him. We also worked on moving away from the whip with me just standing at his head. He was very good. As soon as I went behind him it didn't go so well. I was just trying to get him to step away when I pressed his side with the whip. He was very overreactive. I stayed patient and persistant. We did get sideways steps. We walked camley around the area and then tried again and he was better. That was where I stopped. After I just sat and petted him with the whip and itched his itchys with it. This is going to take a while, but we will get it. When I lounged him (he lounges really well) we worked on moving in and out on the circle with sidereins. I am in Riverside, CA, since you asked....Thanks again! L
 
I can't seem to get the same feeling doing a walk, trot show ring thing maybe because it is too stiff and formal and disjointed when you don't exactly know whats coming next. I have driven dressage tests and still can't seem to get that feeling going but when I do obstacle courses in a show I can have moments
Part of it is the fact that for it to be a true partnership moment the horse has to be as into it as you are. Horses don't generally get the show-ring thing as being a priority they understand, and while they can learn to like or even love dressage they don't have the pattern in their head so it takes more practice and being tuned into each other to hit that magic moment. In cones, they can see the goal and enjoy it as a fun game the two of you are really doing together and not just something you are asking them to do.

The smarter the horse, the more pride they take in doing as much of the thinking as you are. And when it works: BOOM! Magic, baby.
default_thumbup.gif
:
Yeah I could see that. Willie loves his obstacle and races of any kind, seems to think ring work is booooring (me too!) He is a smart little cookie and seems to have figured out a lot of the obstacles before he gets to them.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top