driving question????

[mightymiracles]

I have a mare who is newer to driving but we have been doing well for the last 2 months. Now no bashing as I have trained others to drive with no issues....all the way up to drafts and never had one like her. I have her in a mullen mouth driving bit, we tried a split snaffle and we did not do well with that, lots of grinding the bit etc.. I have had her teeth checked by two different vets, both said she was ok.

We started from basics with her as I dont know her history (she is 12), lingin, ground driving and we progressed smoothly, now we have been in cart for a bit and she is getting bulky at starting to walk forward to the point she backs up first and then more whip ques and she lunges forward and then whips her head around like an idiot and gets the shoulders into it to so I dont trust her to be in the cart yet. It doesnt matter if I am in the cart of out, it doesnt matter where we work or if we are even headed back to the barn! I have made sure everything is adjusted and nothing is pinching or causing pain. I went back to ground driing and she is doing the same thing excpet she can completely spin around with no shafts. I try to keep her straight as to anticipate what she is going to do but she is quick about it, in the cart she doesnt spin. What are suggestions as to what is causing this and how to fix it. Tonight we worked on nothing but stop and go. I guess I need to take her back to lunging but she doesnt do this when I lunge her. Should I take her blinders off? Sorry this is so long but I am confused, in all the horses I have never had one throw a fit like she is doing.

 

[Littleum]

Does she balk if she has someone at her head?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

My first reaction was " take off the blinkers " some horses just do not like them.

 

[mightymiracles]

No bulking at her head if she has a leader but she still throws her head around until she gets a jerk and a stern knock it off. Once moving this mare drives beautifully. She also stops great and turns are not an issue. Its just bulky at moving forward. I am going to start back at lunging with harness and take blinkers off and then more ground driving. Her daughter has the same attitude and does the same head tossing thing when she doesnt get her way (she is not of driving age....oh goodie what I have to look forward to!)

 

[Margo_C-T]

I generally always begin ground driving with an open bridle; once the horse has a good grasp of what I want of it, I introduce the blindered bridle, and alternate sessions with that and an open bridle. Over here, of course, if you want to show, you must 'eventually' use a blindered bridle-but I believe that most horses benefit from being able to see 'what's going on' around them to begin with....

Where do you run the driving lines through for ground driving/long lining? They should not be run through the terrets on the harness saddle--certainly not unless/until a horse is VERY solid in being ground driven/longlined, as it is next to impossible to prevent a horse from 'spinning', or turning to face you(which can be downright dangerous). Instead, the lines should be run through the shaft or tug loops, or even, the hobbled stirrups, if using a riding saddle.EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, sometimes I presume knowledge that some may not yet have...of course, the tug or shaft loops need to be 'hobbled' so they will stay 'down'...I do this by buckling the wrap straps through them (in fact, when ground driving, I not only do that, but also buckle the breeching holdback straps through them, also--this keeps things 'in place', and is useful in other ways. I've never owned a 'training surcingle'--do perfectly well with the harness saddle, crupper, and beeching, as long as it is properly adjusted!) All this means the lines stay low, the outside one will come 'around' the horse's buttocks, and you can maintain much better control, prevent the horse from 'spinning' to face you, with skillful handling.

Margo

 

[mightymiracles]

I have ground driven her in pasture (with no other horses) and in the round pen and all over the area around here, nice little blocks around the lake near here. I started her with no blinders and then we moved to blinders and she did fine (no intent on showing) I put the lines through the shaft loops and they move so I will have to tie them down or secure them some how so them cant move. I will let you know how today goes with basics again.

 

[BannerBrat]

[SIZE=12pt]This is just my humble advice... as I've trained my gelding to drive & he sure can be a handful at times & is quite creative.

[/SIZE]

First, are you sure the breast collar is positioned so that it's not on her windpipe? I know a lot on mini's have no chest so the fit can be hard, but their windpipe is very sensitive, so it's worth checking.

If you're sure there are no problems with equipment, I'd go back to getting her very good with voice commands, sometimes just because they are doing what you ask for a few times it doesn't necessarily mean they understand exactly what your asking for. I'd do this first in hand, then go to the lunge, then if you know how (or want to learn

) double lunge her (also called longlining) on the lunge circle, you can add figure-8's to that as you get proficient. Just make sure when you ask her to go forward, she goes forward! (As well as listening to the other things you're telling her.) I'd also be careful backing her, as I can see her using as a vice. Take your time with this, & I'd bet that she might be testing you, but when she finds out that you aren't taking her crap she'll get over it.

After going back to look for any holes in her training where she just didn't retain the information, if she still does this when hitched, really get after her with the whip, she should've learned previously that forward means forward!

Was she fine with ground driving with blinders? If she was I don't think that they are the problem. I don't know if you are going to show her or not, if not there's no reason you can't take them off and see if that makes a difference. Just make sure to take the time to go very slow & make sure she's not nervous about the cart at all. I have my boy driving in an open bridle now, & I like it because I can actually see his expression & see if he's scared of just being a goof & etc.

Good luck, you learn a lot from these kind of horses.

Oh! also, you you have any kind of check on her? Martingale? If you do make sure they are properly adjusted, please.

 

[Sue_C.]

If it were the blinders causing the problem, there ARE ways to follow the rules, and still make her happy. I had one mare who did not like blinders, and let me know it in a similar fashion...not as extreme as your mare...but I got the idea.

What I did was have a modified blinker set made for her. You don't need the whole bridle, as you can simply exchange one set of blinders for the other. the ones I had made for her are cupped, but only come out to the side about an inch. Sort of a half-moon looking thing. All she had to do to see around was move her head that inch on either side, and she could see me, and be reassured. She could also see to the side, and that gave her almost full-range, yet, she was still in a "blindered bridle". This is common in the Standardbred industry; too bad she was a Morgan or I could simply have bought a Standardbred racing bride, but her head was too small for the bigger blinders.

There are a lot of great suggestions given already if the blinders are not the problem. The next thing I was going to suggest was to loosten the check if you are using one. That is another thing that I don't like, but according to rules, must be worn. I have mine very loose, and use an elastic connector to the waterhook so there is never a solid bump to the bit.

 

[Minimor]

What kind of cart do you have? A horse will often behave the way you describe when the vehicle is too heavy & the horse has difficulty in getting it started. Once the horse is acting this way the behavior can carry over to ordinary long lining without the cart too. If you're using a light EE then obviously this won't be an issue. On the same line of thought, check her hocks and stifles--if she is sore in either of these areas it could cause her to have difficulty in starting even a light weight vehicle.

 

[~Lisa~]

I am no expert but personally I do not believe the blinders and the quick fix since you say she had them on and was going fine for a while in them I know many are quick to blame blinders and checks for a variety of things but if the horse has had them on and done fine for a while I would look elsewhere. I would check your bit if it is a cheaper knock off version (I have one of those as well) it might not be as well made as you thought. I would look for any kind of abnormal wear in the bit. I have a friend who had one get a slight crack and that of course led to a rough edge. I also had a bit that was larger on one side then the other I didnt notice it but someone else did a lot of times these mini bits are just poorly made

 

[shorthorsemom]

I generally always begin ground driving with an open bridle; once the horse has a good grasp of what I want of it, I introduce the blindered bridle, and alternate sessions with that and an open bridle. Over here, of course, if you want to show, you must 'eventually' use a blindered bridle-but I believe that most horses benefit from being able to see 'what's going on' around them to begin with....Where do you run the driving lines through for ground driving/long lining? They should not be run through the terrets on the harness saddle--certainly not unless/until a horse is VERY solid in being ground driven/longlined, as it is next to impossible to prevent a horse from 'spinning', or turning to face you(which can be downright dangerous). Instead, the lines should be run through the shaft or tug loops, or even, the hobbled stirrups, if using a riding saddle. This means the lines stay low, the outside one will come 'around' the horse's buttocks, and you can maintain much better control, prevent the horse from 'spinning' to face you, with skillful handling.

Margo

Thanks Margo, you answered a question I was having while answering this post. I am going to try to lower my lines to keep my boy straight. He is happy, just wants to look at me after he stops. Not in blinkers yet on my line driving, but I realize from reading this that I did make the error of putting my lines too high on my surcingle. Makes total sense what you said, I just didn't think about the mechanics of what I was doing, can't wait to try it.

 

[mightymiracles]

Thank you everyone for your response. I worked her this morning and its not the blinders, she is just throwing a fit. Bit is good and it fits good. She is not sore in anyway, have had vet look at her. her cart is really light and well balanced. We are going back to basics, lowering her lines and back to the cammands. I also changed where I cue her to move forward and that seems to have helped. I cue her on the side, like if I was riding her (she is not broke to ride) she responds better to that, still have some head throwing and we are working on not backing up when asked to move forward. Any sort of extreme pressure to move forward worsens the situation so now she gets the same cue no matter what we are doing, even if we are leading out to pasture, I always cue with whip and voice command before she can move. I have a feeling she was trained before to cart and has not been driven in a LONG time and now she is testing me so we will go back to basics and get our foundation better. any ideas how to keep her from backing up when I ask to go forward? I just keep her straight and keep asking till she goes forward and then stop cueing.

Thanks again for all suggestions guys

 

[Sue_C.]

I have a feeling she was trained before to cart and has not been driven in a LONG time and now she is testing me

If she is registered, you should be able to tell who owned her previously. Just out of curiosity, I would contact the former owners to ask if she HAD ever been driven.

 

[mightymiracles]

I know who owned her previous to me only used her as a brood mare. Before that According to her papers, it was Lil' Darlings farm out of TX. Jeanne M McClanahan. She may have been only a brood mare, but until now she has taken so easily to driving, now we hit a hiccup, so back to basics.

 

[Little Bits]

I have trained standardbreds for many years. I think what would help a great deal would be to have two people on either side with long lines to keep her straight. This way she cannot turn around or not be allowed to back up, or lunge forward. The lines should be held not to tight but enough to have some control.

If she lunges forward maybe she doesn't like the whip. Ask her walk of and have the two people on the lines gentle pull her forward.

If she is fine line driving. Her issues sounds to be starting off, so I would hook and unhook and rehook her until she does it the right way. This may take all day or a few hours, but it sounds like she has learned she can do this and get away with it. I have always said that when a horse gets tired that's when they learn. She should get better and better each sart and stop. Make her tired work her hard and then ask her Ok you want to start that way here have some work. Than start again Oh you want to do that again, then here have some more work and eventually she will get tired and stop acting up. When she does it right end on a good note with lots of praise. Always end on a good note. You can take away the 3rd lines as she progresses.

Sometimes horses baulk at the whip and and that maybe the wild start. As far as an open bridle you can try, but I don't think that is the issue. And there is a possiblity that she gets worse. Good Luck I hope I explained this rso It makes since.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

What kind of cart do you have? A horse will often behave the way you describe when the vehicle is too heavy & the horse has difficulty in getting it started. Once the horse is acting this way the behavior can carry over to ordinary long lining without the cart too. ... On the same line of thought, check her hocks and stifles--if she is sore in either of these areas it could cause her to have difficulty in starting even a light weight vehicle.

Absolutely. And please, don't jerk her mouth when she tosses her head. That isn't going to solve anything and will only make her afraid of the bit.

Leia

 

[~Lisa~]

I also see many people when the horse starts to walk they actually catch the horse in the mouth. I am not sure if it is just a reaction or what but seems to be more common then not in many drivers. you might want to try really exagerating your start by moving your hands a few inches forward and really giving her her head until she is strongly walking and then getting your lines back ? I have my daughter do this and it made all the difference in the world with her green horse. Might not be proper driving technique but she is green as well and better to have the horse start well and not get knocked in the mouth- she really had NO IDEA she was even doing it

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Might not be proper driving technique but she is green as well and better to have the horse start well and not get knocked in the mouth- she really had NO IDEA she was even doing it

That is ABSOLUTELY proper driving technique with a green horse! Good for you.

Leia

 

[Keri]

Sounds like she's just throwing a fit!

Just keep being persistant and work her every night. If she starts off good a couple times, call it a good lesson and put her away. That way she realizes doing something right is rewarding rather than more work. Broodmares tend to be onery when they actually have to work! Hahaha! J/K. I have a little gelding that I broke (still breaking). Every week, it was something new. Rearing, backing, what ever he could to get out of actually working. Then when he realized that behavior would get reprimanded and we would continue to work, he would quit (then wait to try something new). Needless to say, if he actually got down and worked, out lessons would be lots shorter.

Some horses just prefer to keep us on our toes!

Good luck!

 

[Minimor]

I have always said that when a horse gets tired that's when they learn. She should get better and better each sart and stop. Make her tired work her hard and then ask her Ok you want to start that way here have some work. Than start again Oh you want to do that again, then here have some more work and eventually she will get tired and stop acting up.

I have to say I think that this is true only to a point. It is possible to over-do things too, and make the horse sick & tired of the whole thing, which will only make things worse. In the above scenario I would ask only for a small improvement the first day--I surely wouldn't keep at it trying to get "perfect".