Dixie Chicks ROCK!!!

[Jenn]

Jenn, I'd be honored!

Gotta add, though...the Texans I've had the pleasure to meet in person -- Al (I didn't really meet Susan, but I'll include her), Tony, Dr. Pam (even if a newly minted Texan) and others who were at the convention -- were SONDERFUL, even if Al doesn't like salmon! We may have differing political points of view, but that just adds to the fun!

Oh, I enjoyed the Texans, just didn't understand half of what they were saying! I sat with Al when we all went out for supper.

(I don't like salmon either, but as a beef producer, fish is against my constitution. LOL!)

 

[Pepipony]

Just ask the families of the 150,000 Iraquis that we have killed in the last few years. Remember, we went over there because someone took out 3,000 Americans. Because of our actions the UN is now powerless. Again, people dont like the UN, but they sure do holler and want them to do something about N.K. Bush took their power away. If we dont have to listen to them, why does anyone else?

Pepi, It wasn't about going over there because someone took out 3,000 Americans. It was because it was an act of war perpetrated on our soil regardless of the death toll. Any country willing to harbor and promote terrorism to produce something like that deserves some serious butt kicking and the Iraqis and other surrounding countries are notorious for harboring and promoting terrorists. You can't always sort the chaff from the wheat in war and while I'm deeply distressed the average Iraqi citizen has to live in this mess, it's not unusual for them to be killed regularly by their own countrymen at a rate higher than by US forces could do in years. Kind of ironic isn't it?

As for the UN it has always been powerless, no one had to do that for them they have a long glorious history of being ineffectual.

Oh and Sonya, I tried sending the chicks bus tickets to Canada but they couldn't go, said something about them not wanting them either. Ah well too bad Canada's loss.

:

Actually, it's ALL the Dixie Chicks fault. I had to make sure I kept it on topic :lol:

Huh? It wasnt because of taking out 3,00 americans, but because of an act of war? Well color me confused but wouldnt the act of war be the taking out of those 3,000 Americans? If we look back at what Bush stated or gave the impression of, he KNEW ( his words) that Saddam had WMDs. None were found. Most of what he stated as fact, that he knew, was wrong.

Right thing done for wrong reason is still wrong. Saddam was bad, no doubt about it. But dont use one thing as an excuse to do another. I kinda imagine that the families of those killed in Iraq arent saying 'well, gee, at least he/she was killed by an American and not Saddam'

: Dead is dead. And if we use Bush excuse of hitting them there so they dont come here, then you wont mind if the police bomb your/another neighborhood to take out that one bad guy. Same thing isnt it?

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

[

Huh? It wasnt because of taking out 3,00 americans, but because of an act of war? Well color me confused but wouldnt the act of war be the taking out of those 3,000 Americans?

Well I guess if you can parrot that back you do understand it was an act of war instead of some casual killing not to be acted upon. You made it sound like oh well no biggie not enough dead Americans to bother about.

If we look back at what Bush stated or gave the impression of, he KNEW ( his words) that Saddam had WMDs. None were found. Most of what he stated as fact, that he knew, was wrong.

Right thing done for wrong reason is still wrong.

Attacking a country for attacking us who is known to harbor and promote terrorists as I said deserves a butt kicking, WMDs or not.

Saddam was bad, no doubt about it. But dont use one thing as an excuse to do another. I kinda imagine that the families of those killed in Iraq arent saying 'well, gee, at least he/she was killed by an American and not Saddam'

: Dead is dead. And if we use Bush excuse of hitting them there so they dont come here, then you wont mind if the police bomb your/another neighborhood to take out that one bad guy. Same thing isnt it?

No not the same thing at all by any stretch of the imagination and but if that is the logic trail, it's definately not worth persuing any further.

 

[Pepipony]

It is the same thing. To think not isnt to not think the trail is logical, but to think that yours is the only way. We killed thousands of Iraquis in retribution for Afghanistans Al Queda which is led by a Saudi. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and if you will actually hear what the Bush administration has said since, you would know that as fact. Also they admitted that Iraq had no WMDs. So in fact, the killing of their people for something done by others is the same as killing people in your neighborhood for something done by another. Only difference is since your neighborhood would be on American soil, there are laws against that. Since it was done on Iraq soil, then our Imperialist administration deems it ok. Thats sick. Its wrong and God willing these men ( and I use that term lightly) will be held accountable.

You are putting words in my mouth to suit your needs. I never said anything, not one word about not going after Al Queda. We should and in that vein if we had the troops in Afghanistan doing that, instead of Iraq, we would have gotten them by now instead of Saddam. Read what I write, not what you want to read into what I write. Isnt that what got Bush into Iraq as it was? Telling the intelligence people what to find instead of reading that they found?

That is not saying the troops are at fault. They arent, they are doing there job. It is their Commander in Chiefs fault and I would bet you that if his name was Clinton, Gore or Kerry, you would be flipping out about it all.

Patriotism isnt loving your government, they are just men and men are prone to being wrong. Patriotism is loving your country. Patriotism doesnt mean that to love the troops you have to love the reason's' behind what they are doing. Patriotism isnt the RIGHT of the President, he cannot hijak that word to make his cause just. His cause has to be just on its own. THANK GOD people finally realized that and did something about it.

 

[LindaL]

Im sitting here laughing, because all I did was tell you all that I went to a concert and I loved it and this thread took on a life of its own, but its OK, because I know that the Dixie Chicks are of course very controversial, so I would expect the politics and both positive and negative feed back about how they voiced their opinions. My own personal opnion on them is that I agree with what they said/still say, I think they have a right to their own opinion and to be able to voice it the way they feel...and they still ROCK!!! :aktion033:

: :aktion033:

 

[CharmedMinis]

Linda I'm glad you enjoyed the concert, I love the Chicks too!

Jenn, I agree with most of what you are saying, My family and I are among the Americans that have not been "brainwashed" for lack of a better term.

I have much I would like to say but will leave it at this.................

I just arrived back home from a 7 week long 9500 mile road trip, which took me through most states East of the Southwestern part of the U.S. I was also in Canada at Niagara for 3 days.

During my trip I heard at least a couple dozen people talking loud enough to be overheard saying words along the lines of "I'm ashamed to be a part of this country right now". Now those weren't the exact words they all said, but the word "ashamed" was the most commonly used word. I was shocked and pleased with this, maybe more people are waking up.

I'm definitely proud to be an American, I think I'm lucky to be from this country, but at this point in time, Yes I am ashamed to admit that I'm American, and there are too many reasons to list for why I feel that way.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

It is the same thing. To think not isnt to not think the trail is logical, but to think that yours is the only way.

We killed thousands of Iraquis in retribution for Afghanistans Al Queda which is led by a Saudi. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and if you will actually hear what the Bush administration has said since, you would know that as fact. Also they admitted that Iraq had no WMDs. So in fact, the killing of their people for something done by others is the same as killing people in your neighborhood for something done by another.

>>No the rules of war are quite different from a countries law so not there is no comparison. Police would be held accountable to the laws of the state in which the illegal act occured. The only repercussion for an act of war against a country is a declaration of war against them whether it be held on their soil or ours. Which is the reason I don't agree with your logic trail and not because I think that my way is the only way. If I did I certainly wouldn't be bothering to reply to you. I have no intention of attempting to win you over to my side and it's your choice to hate the administration or even your country if it suits you. Face it, we will never have a perfect little country you've always imagined, there will always be something to not agree with no matter the administration. I guess you could try Canada, it's supposed to be heaven on earth and our Jenn speaks very highly of it. :bgrin

Only difference is since your neighborhood would be on American soil, there are laws against that.

>>Yes, as I said above. So not quite the same thing after all? Please make up your mind I'm getting dizzy.

Since it was done on Iraq soil, then our Imperialist administration deems it ok. Thats sick. Its wrong and God willing these men ( and I use that term lightly) will be held accountable.

>>Doubtful, no administration has ever been held accountable for a declaration of war against any faction of another country that has initiated an act of war upon us.

You are putting words in my mouth to suit your needs. I never said anything, not one word about not going after Al Queda.

>>I put no words in your mouth and never even mentioned Al Queda. I said you made it sound that way not that you said it. My bad, I interpreted your words incorrectly.

We should and in that vein if we had the troops in Afghanistan doing that, instead of Iraq, we would have gotten them by now instead of Saddam. Read what I write, not what you want to read into what I write.

>>I did read what you wrote and, again, that was my interpretation of what you said. And we will never know if you are correct or not. Anyone can be an armchair quarterback, doesn't mean that's the only way it would have turned out--it's your perception of what could have occured.

Isnt that what got Bush into Iraq as it was? Telling the intelligence people what to find instead of reading that they found? That is not saying the troops are at fault. They arent, they are doing there job.

>>I don't know for sure and neither do you. All we know is the propaganda the media wants to portray. Often we never know what really happened only the spin that's put on it depending on your political persuasion. I get a lot of information from those that have been there, several have done two tours and are willing to return again if need be. I'd much rather get the truth from the horse's mouth, our soldiers, rather than the other end of the horse--the media. By the way, some don't have a high opinion of the Dixie Chicks opinions either. You know I had to ask them.

: They make my boss twitch, he's a Colonel in the AF and my son, an AF lifer, and his friends said some things that shouldn't be said in public. See I did manage to at least stay on topic.

:

It is their Commander in Chiefs fault and I would bet you that if his name was Clinton, Gore or Kerry, you would be flipping out about it all.

>>Actually no, I voted for Clinton, not once but twice, and supported him whole heartedly regardless of his indiscretions and even when I didn't agree with some of his policy. Gore might have even been a good president but Kerry, well you've got me there I think he was, and still is, a fool.

Patriotism isnt loving your government, they are just men and men are prone to being wrong. Patriotism is loving your country. Patriotism doesnt mean that to love the troops you have to love the reason's' behind what they are doing. Patriotism isnt the RIGHT of the President, he cannot hijak that word to make his cause just. His cause has to be just on its own. THANK GOD people finally realized that and did something about it.

>>Patriotism means supporting your government even when you disagree with the mission, many of the troops have to do it daily. Anybody with a mouth can whine about it, doesn't mean it's all about patriotism. I do love my country because in few others can you speak your opinion without being silenced or worse. Patriotism means supporting the troops even though you disagree with the mission knowing they are duty bound to carry it out. The president has just as right to his own patriotism as you or I and if people finally realized what you say then why did he win a second term? That's exactly what they did about it, they voted him back in.

 

[Pepipony]

Oh please, they voted him back in because he ran a fearmongering campaign. Considering they didnt vote him in the first time, he is lucky to have had the chance to run again. He ( Rove at the wheel) ran such a bs campaign full of so many falsehoods , that they are now part of lore , Swiftboating ? Bush scared everyone into thinking that Iraq was the root of all evil. They fell for it, hook line and sinker. However now that the truth is finally getting out, people have woke up and did what they could about it. They took his imperialist power away from him. NOW he wants to play with others and be bipartisan. Oh give me a break. What a petulant little brat he is.

Patriotism is NOT loving your government, its loving your country. BIG difference.

We brought a war to a country that had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Bush brought that war because he felt like it. Intelligence told him he was wrong, he didnt care. His bringing that War and killing all those innocents, is the same is the police bombing a street for one bad guy. You may argue law, but laws are made by men for their own purposes. What about morals?

I am ashamed of Bush the lesser. He has opened a big ol can of worms that he isnt smart enough to get out of. Heck, he wasnt smart enough to not open it. Now he wants help. Sure enough he wont take any responsibility for anything, now it will be the other guys fault. Man I hope they impeach his butt. Even better, maybe another country will bring charges against him like Germany wants to do with Rumsfeld.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

Patriotism is NOT loving your government, its loving your country. BIG difference.

Go back and reread I said support not love and that IS a big difference. You sound way to caught up in this is for all this to come as the result of what a twit like Natalie Maines said.

: I'm glad I don't have to live with that kind of venom and hatred for something unlikely to change just because we'll soon get a new fruit loop at the wheel.

 

[Pepipony]

I'm not caught up by what Maines said. I am caught up by the twits that think because we have laws to protect us, we can then do whatever we want to those that dont. Hypocrits and people that say 'do as I say, not as I do' scare me. Least the one twit at the wheel has been taken off the road, so to speak.

 

[Sonya]

Yes I am ashamed to admit that I'm American, and there are too many reasons to list for why I feel that way.

maybe you should move to Canada then and become a citizen there!

I want to clarify I am not a Bush supporter. I totally disagree with most of what he's done. But I am not ashamed to be from America or to be an American, those that are...don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya - then there will be room for the legal immigrants who want to be here.

Linda - glad you liked the concert. I am going to see Sara Evans on New Years Eve at a casino near us...I'm very excited. I saw her once a couple years ago when someone gave us free tickets, so now we are going to make it a tradition when she comes to town. I don't really like concerts for the most part and only go occasionally - I can't stand being stuffed in a hot room with a bunch of people. She is not one of my favorite artists, but I do like her. She's going throught some controversy too (nothing like the chicks though). It appears she has an overactive labito or her hubby does! My husbands friend who is going with us says....oh ya, she's single now...I'll be her rebound! He He!

 

[mountain_waif]

I'm glad I don't have to live with that kind of venom and hatred

I can't imagine being so hateful to someone you have never met and only know through the media....so mad as "to be ashamed to be an American". It is one thing to oppose someone's views but you are so far over the edge that this cannot be good for you.

 

[shminifancier]

Might as well be friends with Canada, as well as Mexico, because just a few years down the road this will be ALL ONE country in the first place. Under the name of either just plain North America, Or North American Union. And That NAFTA Superhighway system being built 10 lanes 5 lanes in each direction Directly from with in Mexico into Canada. And Oh yes the currency with by called The Amero~! So might as well get along now things will be one in a few years.

Why do you think NO Party is willing to stop illegals from crossing into the USA,

And lets not Forget the Real ID coming Next year, and the USDAs NAIS this is all part of the 3 countries being one and was started way back in the 90s with the signing of NAFTA.

Oh you want to see what that highway will look like. Just go to the links below. And No border stop until Kansas City. That will be the First Port Of Call.

http://www.nascocorridor.com/

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15497

http://www.newswithviews.com/Kress/joe6.htm