Could someone please explain hardshipping to me

[Field-of-Dreams]

I don't personally feel this is the place to activate a poll regarding this subject. Although this is a huge, wonderful, and well read forum only a very small percentage of our registry's membership are actually active on this forum. I don't feel it would give a true picture of the memberships feelings either way. It needs to be done through the registry and sent to each and every member.

Isn't this a lot like Convention where a few members are permitted to vote and change everything for all?

I think there are enough people here to give an idea of what we'd like...

 

[Minimor]

I say this because I have been told that AMHR piggybacks the ASPC quite a bit. In fact, this was cited to me as the reason that the pony people don't gripe about the minis like the mini people do about the ponies. Now, with those numbers in mind, I wonder what the change would be if all horses who are ASPC/AMHR were forced into Mini-ASPC classes. How would that effect the futurity money? How would that effect the Nationals entries? How would that effect resale values on the non-ASPC minis? How would that effect the prestige of a National title?

That's what I would like to see too. Numbers and $$$ amounts not just for AMHR registrations vs ASPC registrations, but out of the AMHR registration totals, including transfers, how many of the registrations and applications & permanent applications and how much of the dollar amounts for each of those can be attributed to horses that also hold ASPC registration? If you take out all of the ASPC horses, what do the remaining figures look like? I think these days if you subtracted those horses that have ASPC registration there would be a fair sized hole in AMHR numbers.

I don't imagine that Joe's report has the info broken down quite that way?

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Isn't this a lot like Convention where a few members are permitted to vote and change everything for all?

I think there are enough people here to give an idea of what we'd like...

Trust me you will get more member responses here then you would at a Convention. You get what maybe 50 people at Convention that vote and decide whats best for AMHR. That needs to change.

 

[~Lisa~]

JMS every convention I have ever been to has way more then 50 people

Holly and Fran I would guess? that while not totally accurate if you took the dollar amount of ASPC horses registered in one year then say applied 1/4 of that you would get a guesstimate of how much is going from ASPC to AMHR for registraion. Now before you jump on me I am very aware that this would be a guesstimate. From that guesstimate you would be able to get a GUESSTIMATE percentage of how much income ASPC horses are generating into AMHR

I would be more then glad to post those numbers given at Convention here on this fourm when I get back for anyone who is interested.

 

[Jacki Loomis]

Deleted, sent partial, unsigned reply by error.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]

 

[JWC sr.]

Lisa,

I will be looking forward to meeting you there. Cindy & I are planning on being there. Maybe we can all get a beverage or somenthing. This convention should be an interesting one.

 

[~Lisa~]

John I would love it and will make sure to look you up

 

[Minimor]

Actually, Lisa, it was Mominis, not Fran, who first posted the question about the ratio of AMHR to AMHR/ASPC in the various breakdowns of any financial report.

Then there was her (Mominis again) question about Nationals numbers. If you removed all ASPC registered animals from Nationals, how many would be gone, how many would be left? I had several people tell me this year that the Over division at Nationals was all Shetlands, so if you pulled all those entries out, how many would be left? If the owners of those entries didn't come to Nationals at all, how many more horses would be gone from the show, just because many of those exhibitors must also have Under division horses, some of which will not be ASPC registered, some of which may be ASPC as well. Just curious what AMHR Nationals might have looked like in 2010 if those horses had not shown up.

 

[Songcatcher]

Posted Today, 03:07 PM
Field-of-Dreams, on 05 October 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

Isn't this a lot like Convention where a few members are permitted to vote and change everything for all?

I think there are enough people here to give an idea of what we'd like...

Trust me you will get more member responses here then you would at a Convention. You get what maybe 50 people at Convention that vote and decide whats best for AMHR. That needs to change.

I think this forum is a wonderful place and a very valuable tool. It may be true that there are more people here than there are at convention. BUT, that is not the way the rules are written. If people just decide, "heck with the rules, we're going to do it the way I want to", There will be total chaos. If you don't like the rules, work to change them, but you can't just say, "This is better, we're going to do it this way", without first changing the rules.

Although I don't think there is any question about this being the largest, most widely read Miniature Horse forum in existence, I don't think the majority of Miniature owners and breeders come on here and express their views.

 

[~Lisa~]

Sorry see post below

 

[~Lisa~]

That's what I would like to see too. Numbers and $$$ amounts not just for AMHR registrations vs ASPC registrations, but out of the AMHR registration totals, including transfers, how many of the registrations and applications & permanent applications and how much of the dollar amounts for each of those can be attributed to horses that also hold ASPC registration? If you take out all of the ASPC horses, what do the remaining figures look like? I think these days if you subtracted those horses that have ASPC registration there would be a fair sized hole in AMHR numbers.

I don't imagine that Joe's report has the info broken down quite that way?

I am sorry Holly this is the post I was answering

The question what would numbers be like at Nationals if no ASPC/R horses were there could be answered with how many more horses would come back out and show?

But really since it is not a reality the answer to that question really doesn't matter since no way to know the actual answer.

 

[Minimor]

Yes, but I wasn't asking about any future show, I was wondering specifically about the 2010 show! sorry, I may not have been quite clear enough on that. With so many complaints about Minis carrying the Shetlands, I would like to know what percentage of the most recent AMHR Nationals was made up of dual registered Shetlands

and their owners, plus the number of other entries that were there only because they rode along with their ASPC/AMHR cousins & friends.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I am confused here.....why wouldn't those Shetlands that are registered Miniatures not be at the National show if they chose to be? I think you guys are off on that Shetland hating tangent again.

Just to be clear - what I would like to see polled is NOT whether you like or dislike Shetlands or whether or not to allow hardshipping of Shetlands but rather whether or not the registry should be completely closed OR reopened to hardshipping horses from any breed that are 38" or less and whether or not you would like to see a more definitive Standard of Perfection for the Miniature Horse.

I am going to say it one more time - this is not, and never has been, about Shetlands for me. It is about breeding what you love in a Miniature Horse. I don't want to stop those of you that love a Miniature Shetland any more than I want you to stop me from breeding a Miniature Warmblood type

or Joe down the road from breeding his Miniature draft type or........you fill in the blank! I know people that are breeding Miniature Hackneys and others that are breeding Miniature Curlies and if they are successful at getting them under 38" I don't see why they shouldn't be able to register those horses as Minis. I am NOT against Shetlands - I am against ONLY Shetlands.

 

[Minimor]

Nothing at all to do with Shetland haters Lori, honest!! I asked that only out of curiosity, just because I wondered how many of the horses actually supporting the AMHR Nationals are in fact Shetlands. The question came about because of previous threads where people have complained that Shetlands are being carried by Miniatures...and so I just had to ask how many horses would be gone from Nationals if the "ponies" weren't there one particular year (2010 was the sample year I chose)...without the ponies being shown, what would the financial statement for this particular show look like?

 

[Karen S]

If you really wanted to know the number of ASPC/AMHR registered miniatures that participated at the AMHR Natinals, go into the show program, print off ALL of the horses entered. Then if you have a paid membership to the stud book on line, you can spend your free time taking each and every one of those horses and check the Shetland registry for their name. Some may have a slightly different name from their miniature papers, but you will never know unless you know the horse, the majority of them do carry both names on the miniature and Shetland side.

If any of you really want to know, then get together, break up the number of horses and find out. That will give you and idea of how many were there.

Karen

 

[stormy]

Minimor your question is really a dual question.

How many of the animals showing at Nationals were dual registered ASPC/AMHR or rode with some in the trailer? Have I got that right?

The counter question would be:

How many AMHR only horses/owners have stopped going to Nationals(esp in over classes)because of the clear favoritism towords the Shetland type in judging.

Remember Shetlands are classed as a minor breed with only a few thousand (I believe it is between 10 and 20 thousand)in the registry.

Miniature horses (AMHR only) are a much larger group numbering over a hundred thousand.

Even if half of all shetlands are dual registered they are still a small percent of the total AMHR registered animals.

 

[Minimor]

Minimor your question is really a dual question.

How many of the animals showing at Nationals were dual registered ASPC/AMHR or rode with some in the trailer? Have I got that right?

The counter question would be:

How many AMHR only horses/owners have stopped going to Nationals(esp in over classes)because of the clear favoritism towords the Shetland type in judging.

Remember Shetlands are classed as a minor breed with only a few thousand (I believe it is between 10 and 20 thousand)in the registry.

Miniature horses (AMHR only) are a much larger group numbering over a hundred thousand.

Even if half of all shetlands are dual registered they are still a small percent of the total AMHR registered animals.

Forget it--you're not getting the point at all, and yes, I realize that you don't WANT to get the point, and that's okay.
It doesn't matter how many Shetlands are AMHR compared to how many non-Shetlands are AMHR registered; it doesn't matter how many non-ASPC horses might come if the Shetlands weren't at any particular show. Point is, for all the complaining about AMHR always carrying ASPC, the dual registered ponies do contribute a lot to Nationals....though the die-hard straight Miniature people don't like that in any way, shape or form.

 

[stormy]

And my point is they may contribute to Nationals but to the overall income generated by AMHR they contribute very little and may indeed be decreasing total $$$ to Nationals by discouraging the AMHR only owners from showing.

In otherwords I know what you were aiming at but there is a flip side to that.

 

[Mominis]

And my point is they may contribute to Nationals but to the overall income generated by AMHR they contribute very little and may indeed be decreasing total $$$ to Nationals by discouraging the AMHR only owners from showing.

In otherwords I know what you were aiming at but there is a flip side to that.

But, how can this be when the ASPC/AMHR horses are the majroity of what is advertised in the Journal, on the forums, and in most other places? I would say that the ASPC/AMHR probably contribute equally once the show revenues and advertising dollars as well as the memberships (requirement to show) and that sort of thing are calculated.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Stormy I get what you are saying and I agree.