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littlesteppers

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Our newest filly..she looked like a buckskin at birth BUT now her manecolor has identical color to her coat. I checked older pictures of buckskins born here and their mane was already black when they where a week old.

Her dam is a palomino and her sire is a black . I do suspect he is a smocky black since he has a full brother that is a palomino.

Her tail is somewhat white on the outside But black in the middle. Now I seen that before on buckskins.

Soo my question..could she be a Smockey Creme or a perlino?? It's the mane and the blue eyes that throw me off..
 

~Palomino~

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the sire could still have a possibility of being non cream unless one of his parents is double dilute!!

I think this little mini is a buckskin! when they are born I have been told that some have self colord mane and tails wish is the same color as the body!! I have a palomino colt and his color of him mane and tail is the EXACT same color as his body!!

I think she is DEFENETLY not a smokey black or a perlino!! those are almost WHITE!!

Buckskin often have blue eyes!

I think she is buckskin:)

hope that helps!!

-Gage-
 

littlesteppers

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Gage said:
the sire could still have a possibility of being non cream unless one of his parents is double dilute!!


hope that helps!!

-Gage-

435571[/snapback]

Why would he need a double dilute parent..I think One creme ccould very well make a smockey black..
 

~Palomino~

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well he has 50% chance of not even being cream! if one of his parents was double dilute he would 100% forsure have the cream gene!!

I just dont think that that filly is double dilute! if he didnt have the cream gene the filly would forsure not have two cream genes!!

-Gage-

littlesteppers said:
Gage said:
the sire could still have a possibility of being non cream unless one of his parents is double dilute!!


hope that helps!!

-Gage-

435571[/snapback]

Why would he need a double dilute parent..I think One creme ccould very well make a smockey black..

435574[/snapback]

 

littlesteppers

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Lauralee said:
Could your palomino carry silver?
I think she is turning silver buckskin.

435580[/snapback]

Well..I guess she could..since it would not show on Palominos..good thinking thanks Lauralee!!
 

littlesteppers

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Gage said:
well he has 50% chance of not even being cream! if one of his parents was double dilute he would 100% forsure have the cream gene!!

I just dont think that that filly is double dilute! if he didnt have the cream gene the filly would forsure not have two cream genes!!

-Gage-

Oh YES she could theoretically..since her dam is a palomino ..I am not saying she is I am saying she COULD BE!!
 
K

kaykay

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it takes some time for buckskins and bays to get their black points. I dont think her eyes will stay blue. I think she is buckskin and just hasnt colored up yet. I have had bays take almost a month to get their black points. Now if the palomino is carrying silver that kinda muddies the water LOL

Gage smokey blacks are not white. they are very hard to tell that they are carrying the cream gene as they look like a black horse. Usually people only find out they are carrying cream when they throw a dilute foal. Also smokey blacks only have one cream gene not two.
 

Miniv

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We've had a colt that color that we couldn't put a finger on...... We knew there was dilute working on him but weren't sure how.

Perlinos are white with dirty looking manes, tails and legs.....as what would be black on a buckskin has been diluted. Eyes are blue.

Smokey Blacks usually look off-black or dark brown and are hard to identify visually. You mostly have to go by their genetics or what they throw.

Buckskins have dark eyes, dark manes and tails, and dark points. However, add a silver gene into the mix and it causes confusion.

I suspect that both our colt and your filly are buckskin with that pesky silver gene.

MA
 

Dona

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That was my first thought too....looks like he could be a Silver Buckskin.
His palomino dam could very well carry silver....so it's a distinct possibility.
 

zacharyfarms

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The mare in my avatar is a Smokey Black (genetically tested Ee Crcr aa Tt)...and her full sister is a chestnut pinto(genetically tested ee crcr aa Tt) that did not get the cream gene so is not palomino. Their dam is Bay pinto(Ee crcr Aa Tt ) and their sire is a Smoky black(Ee Crcr aa tt)..It is amazing what these genetics can do and to be sure what you have Christine, testing is the way to go..
 

SunQuest

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I am thinking that she is a silver buckskin as well. The reason is that most often the silver takes a few days after birth before it starts to show in the in the mane and tail. Remember, that one of the dead giveaways on the silver gene is that the roots are dark on the mane and tail. So this would account for the dark mane that has gotten lighter.

Now, we know that the mare is a cream carrier since she is a palomino... But could she actually not be a palomino but a light sorrel with the silver gene making one think she is a palomino? Could your mare really be a silver buckskin? She would have to carry silver if the foal is a silver buckskin. What color are her parents and grandparents? That may help you to decide that. Also, she would have to carrie Augoti (bay gene) as well because the sire is black assuming that the foal is buckskin. So with this info, the foal would have a 50% chance of inheriting cream from the mare, 50% chance of silver, 50% chance of Augoti assuming that your foal is a silver buckskin.

The sire on the other hand is black and he is NOT homozygous for black since he has a full sibling that is palomino. The sire also does not carry silver or augoti as that ALWAYS shows on the black coat. On the other hand, the sire has a 50% chance of being a smokey black as one of his parents has at least one cream gene. The question is was one of those parents a double dilute? If so, then you can guarantee the smokey black. Also, has the sire EVER had a buckskin or palomino out of a non-dilute mare? Or has he ever sired a cremello or perlino (double dilute)? If the answer to this is yes, then you are guaranteed that he is a cream carrier. If it were me, I would get this guy tested to know for sure.

Ok now, lets take a look at the cross between the sire and dam of your filly.

Your filly has a 50/50 chance of being either red or black in the base color. Since your filly has faded dark points, and the mane and tail showed black at birth, then I would say she is black in the base color. Now with the body being that redish yellow color, I would be somewhat inclined to believe that he has inherited Augoti... Does she have any bays in her recent background? But wait.... one other possibility exists! What if the mare was a silver carrier and this foal was black in base color and inherited the silver gene and the cream gene???? This is also a VERY real possibility. This would give you a smokey chocolate silver dapple? Not sure of the real name, but it would be a chocolate silver dapple with the cream gene. Anyway, this could easily give you the darker chocolate points and a lighter mane and tail as they mature.

And if we assumed that the sire carried cream as well as the dam, then the actual chances of cream being passed on to your filly is as follows:

25% of double dilute

50% of single dilute

25% of no dilution gene

In other words, if both parents are single dilute cream carriers, you actual chance of a cream carrier is 75%.

So if I were you, here is what I would do. I would test the sire for cream, and I would test the mare for cream and augoti. These tests are done with a mane sample and would answer a ton of your questions. If the dam's results come back as her carrying the cream and the augoti, then you know for sure that a buckskin is possible out of this cross. Now on the other hand, if your mare isn't an augoti carrier, then you can rule out a buckskin. And if you know for sure about the sire being a cream carrier, then you know that you can get a double dilute if you breed him to a cream carrier.

Of course you could just have the foal tested. That would tell you genetically if she was an augoti carrier and a cream carrier which I would bet she does carry at least cream. But this wouldn't tell you for sure which parent was the cream carrier.

Unfortunately, the foal can not be tested for silver, so one would have to decide once they know for sure what else the foal is. Testing would also verify the presence of black.

Hope I didn't confuse you any, but from the sounds and looks of it, I would bet she is a silver buckskin, and a pretty one at that.
 

~Palomino~

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littlesteppers said:
Gage said:
well he has 50% chance of not even being cream! if one of his parents was double dilute he would 100% forsure have the cream gene!!

I just dont think that that filly is double dilute! if he didnt have the cream gene the filly would forsure not have two cream genes!!

-Gage-

Oh YES she could theoretically..since her dam is a palomino ..I am not saying she is I am saying she COULD BE!!

435593[/snapback]

It takes both a cream dam and a cream sire to have a double dilute baby! so if the sire is not cream the baby cant be double dilute, but I dont think she is double dilute so I think that is out of the question!

just because the sires mom or dad had the cream gene dosent mean he has to have it unless one of his parents was double dilute!

-Gage-
 

~Palomino~

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kaykay said:
it takes some time for buckskins and bays to get their black points.  I dont think her eyes will stay blue.  I think she is buckskin and just hasnt colored up yet.  I have had bays take almost a month to get their black points.  Now if the palomino is carrying silver that kinda muddies the water LOL
Gage smokey blacks are not white.  they are very hard to tell that they are carrying the cream gene as they look like a black horse.  Usually people only find out they are carrying cream when they throw a dilute foal.  Also smokey blacks only have one cream gene not two. 


435594[/snapback]

I didnt say smokey blacks are white or they have two cream genes? if it had two cream genes then it would be a white color and be called a smokey cream!

the only thing I said was if she were double dilute she would be almost white(creamy)

-Gage-
 

~Palomino~

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kaykay said:
it takes some time for buckskins and bays to get their black points.  I dont think her eyes will stay blue.  I think she is buckskin and just hasnt colored up yet.  I have had bays take almost a month to get their black points.  Now if the palomino is carrying silver that kinda muddies the water LOL
Gage smokey blacks are not white.  they are very hard to tell that they are carrying the cream gene as they look like a black horse.  Usually people only find out they are carrying cream when they throw a dilute foal.  Also smokey blacks only have one cream gene not two. 


435594[/snapback]

Kay, I went back a reread it and it did look like i said that smokey blacks are almost white!

I said I dont think she is a smokey black or a perlino!!! those are almost white, I only ment the perlino is almost white(creamy colord)

sorry bout that!

-Gage-
 

littlesteppers

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Aww...Thanks Nila!!


Unfortunately her sire has been bred ONLY to palominos since we got him and he produced 100% Buckskins..lol..Not much help..huh? I will have him tested for the creme gene anyways..
 

SunQuest

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littlesteppers said:
Aww...Thanks Nila!! 
 
 
Unfortunately her sire has been bred ONLY to palominos since we got him and he produced 100% Buckskins..lol..Not much help..huh? I will have him tested for the creme gene anyways..


436074[/snapback]

No double dilutes??? Humm... That is strange as being crossed to nothing but dilutes gives you a 25% chance at a double dilute if he is smokey black!

Are you sure he isn't a really dark black bay???? Smokey blacks often can look like black bays. If you get him tested for cream, get the augoti test as well. It can be done with the same mane sample that is used for the cream, and UC Davis will do it for a minimal added charge. I had our smokey black mare done when the cream test first came out and they did the augoti for about half the amount more than it cost to just do the cream test. The reason was that she was dark enough, but light enough to be either black bay or smoky black and she does have a palomino dam. Anyway, hope the tests tell you the answers to your mystery and no matter the color, your filly is darling!
 

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