Color Question

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elizabeth.conder

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So this might be a very simple question, but I was just wondering. I have a miniature mare that is 4 years old and registered as a bay. However, she definitely appears black to me, even if she is sun bleached. Her sire is a beautiful black and her dam is a palomino. When I clipped her this spring, I was prepared for a bit of a color change but I noticed her legs were much darker than the rest of her body. Is that some of the bay she is registered showing through? Or is it just normal with clipped black horses?

Fist pic is her in winter coat
Second pic is her in summer coat
Third pic is her clipped, although badly clipped. (dark legs are much darker than the picture shows)

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Miniv

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Knowing that you have a dilute gene involved, I'd lean toward what Mona says. Her clipped picture almost looks like she's grulla! But a grulla would shed out naturally to that color.
 

chandab

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With her parentage, she could possible be either the "black bay" (seal brown) or smokey black.

What color are the palomino's parents?

What color are her soft points; muzzle, flanks, armpits, ear hairs and under the tail?

Here's a picture of my bay stallion looking very black (2 summer's ago):

Topper - June 24, 2015 - checking out mare pen.jpg

One of his LKF sale pictures (looking more bay):

CatonTop.jpg

He has not been tested, but is by a buckskin stallion and out of a black mare.

Contemplating testing to see if he's homozygous for black pigment (E) or not.
 

elizabeth.conder

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Thank you for the replies.

I have been told she is possibly smoky black, but I was just looking for more opinions.

Her soft points are definitely black. I could never find out for sure what color Belle Stars dam's dam, Uno-Ginger, was, but her dam's sire was a cremello son of Boones Little Buckaroo.
 

chandab

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What's throwing me, is that her legs are staying dark clipped; but I'm not sure if a smokey black clips that way or not. She sure does look black, and there is no visual difference between black and smokey black.
 

elizabeth.conder

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What's throwing me, is that her legs are staying dark clipped; but I'm not sure if a smokey black clips that way or not. She sure does look black, and there is no visual difference between black and smokey black.

Do you think it would be worth it to color test her?
 

chandab

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Do you think it would be worth it to color test her?
That is entirely up to you. Knowing if she is black, smokey black or bay isn't a life or death color test like lethal white. It would be interesting to know, but not a necessity.

I'm curious about color genetics on a few of mine, but at the moment, other expenses are more important so come first in the budget.
 

elizabeth.conder

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I was looking in the rules but I couldn't find this out. Can I post a picture that someone else took of my horse if I get permission from them?
 

Ryan Johnson

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If its your horse , im sure its fine. Permission is needed if the horse belongs to someone else.

Admin please correct me if im wrong
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elizabeth.conder

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Well if that's the case, this is a picture of her as a yearling, when she was being shown. She didn't have the dark legs then I guess...

She obviously is clipped better then she is now.
 

chandab

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Dang, without the difference in color on the legs that a bay has, and I'm pretty sure it stays clipped; I'll say she is black or smoky black. If you are dying to know; then Red Factor, Agouti and cream tests will tell you if she's black, smokey black or dark bay.

She's lovely.
 

elizabeth.conder

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Dang, without the difference in color on the legs that a bay has, and I'm pretty sure it stays clipped; I'll say she is black or smoky black. If you are dying to know; then Red Factor, Agouti and cream tests will tell you if she's black, smokey black or dark bay.

She's lovely.
Well, I guess it is not that big of a deal, but I just might have to test her some time.

Thank you.
 

chandab

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Black foals often have brown fuzzies, so the registry may have made the call to put bay on the papers based on foal picture color.
 

Cayuse

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Elizabeth, your mare is beautiful.

I've been following this thread and found it interesting as I have a "black" mini that clips out grey. He is the exact color of your mare in the show picture. I am never sure what color to call him.

My bright coppery bay mini just clipped out dark grey/black. That was a surprise! He is not recognizable as the same horse. Last year he clipped out his usual bay.
 
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