Color Question!

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Chamomile

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My colt Zorro was born a golden palomino pinto with a white mane and tail. This year, as a yearling he is developing some seal brown points, but no dorsal stripe. So now I'm wondering what color he is! His mama is a golden dun with a white mane and tail and his sire is a black and white pinto...

Zorro, my yearling colt:

83c227_039c0a4167fa4fbca7c13bac2a2bf0f6~mv2_d_2779_2067_s_2.jpg


His back:

83c227_cdca67ba83eb424ea4fd9bc8b9231cd8~mv2_d_3344_2224_s_2.jpg


His legs:

83c227_122ceed088b8481fb97e71bd45b2aa72~mv2_d_2224_3344_s_2.jpg


His mane:

83c227_cddc228f0a9744599235845900d28bdc~mv2_d_3344_2224_s_2.jpg


His mama: She does have a very strong dorsal stripe and leg barring.

83c227_01283c981ce7414288aa70d9dfd05b4b~mv2_d_2792_2097_s_2.jpg


His daddy:

cal.jpg


Thanks for any help you can give!
 

Magic Marker Minis

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I'd still say he is a palomino. He's just a cool shade.

Figuring out baby colors can be a challenge. We have a baby this year that is a buckskin, but with a very noticeable dorsal stripe. Dam is a black medicine hat and sire is a cremello. No dun.
 

chandab

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Parent colors as stated don't/can't make a palomino. You have to have cream in the mix to make palomino; for that the sire would have to be a smokey black and white pinto (cream on black, looks just like regular black). What color are the sire's parents.

The mare looks like she could be a silver bay and if she has dun characteristics, then a silver bay dun.

The yearling looks like it could be a silver buckskin.
 

Debby - LB

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The dam looks to me to be a bay pinto, and as stated IF the mare is dun then the colt could be a bay dun pinto But with no dorsal on him I would say there is no dun, If your colts sire is Pistolero he is who could have passed on the creme gene since he has sired a perlino.... so bay palomino pinto ?? There could be silver there as well I'm just not seeing it from the photos and pedigree.

Do I see blue eyes there too? he's a pretty boy!
 
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Miniv

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The color of your colt has me stumped........Often a silver gene can make things confusing, but I don't see that in him......but just wanted to say I like him very much! His shoulder and hip triangulation are very balanced....and I like how his neck arches nicely off his chest. He also has a distinct throat latch and jowls!
 

Chamomile

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Thank you! LOL I think I'm just as confused as before
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The sire is KLS Pistolero! And he has sired a palomino and a perlino before. I just found out that the palomino was out of a red and white pinto, makes sense! And the perlino was out of a bay and white pinto... His sire was palomino and white and his dam was black and white.

Sky, the mama, is registered as a red dun. Her sire was a yellow dun and her dam was a red and white pinto. Both the mare and the colt have blue eyes.

I sure like the colt a lot and love how well he is put together. Plus he has an awesome mind and is a very fast learner. I can't wait to see how he matures! Man can he walk out and his trot!! Whoot whoot! He will make a wonderful driving horse. His mama is and so was his grandsire...

So armed with that info... would we say a silver buckskin?

Just for fun here's a head shot of the colt, Zorro:

83c227_b69c4813392942e3b31597fc617e2fd8~mv2.jpg


And one of his mama, Sky:
83c227_d99ac446d64743fb87543dab116be018~mv2_d_2224_3344_s_2.jpg


Thanks all!
 

paintponylvr

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I answered in this post - purple - and then put more info below...

Thank you! LOL I think I'm just as confused as before
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The sire is KLS Pistolero! And he has sired a palomino and a perlino before. I just found out that the palomino was out of a red and white pinto, makes sense! And the perlino was out of a bay and white pinto (a bay/white has no cream gene - so resulting foal can't be perlino BUT could be a very light buckskin as our filly is)... His sire was palomino and white and his dam was black and white. (If Pistolero's sire is a palomino and white, then he could certainly be a smokey black or a black carrying a cream gene which he can then pass on)

Sky, the mama, is registered as a red dun. Her sire was a yellow dun and her dam was a red and white pinto (I don't really know how the dun gene works, but Sky's red/white dam could easily carry/hide a silver AND a bay gene that she passed on to Sky - making it quite possible that Sky is a silver bay/white. Skye "looks" like a silver bay/white to me. I know what a red dun is and I know that both parents do not need to pass it on for the foal to be a red dun. What is a yellow dun? Palomino or buckskin base?). Both the mare and the colt have blue eyes.

I sure like the colt a lot and love how well he is put together. Plus he has an awesome mind and is a very fast learner. I can't wait to see how he matures! Man can he walk out and his trot!! Whoot whoot! He will make a wonderful driving horse. His mama is and so was his grandsire...

So armed with that info... would we say a silver buckskin? (I would, yes)

AND YES, he is one GOOD LOOKING COLT!!! I'd love to know what you find out if you ever get him color tested - just 'cuz. Color can be so interesting in minis and small ponies.

Thanks all!
I have done some color testing on our "herd". Others are waiting to be color tested. When I purchased a mare and stallion back this past spring, we were all excited about the color possibilities even though I'd been disappointed that the stallion hadn't been castrated as I'd sold him to them to be (I usually do it and he'd been scheduled then I sold him before the procedure for less $$ - they never got it done...).

The sire - Toro - is a dark bay tobiano. His sire is homozygous for black and tobiano. His dam is a bay tobiano that wasn't color tested. So, Toro looks like this - E?, Aa, ?T.

The mare - Kechi - is a cremello that is color tested as having a bay gene. Her color test - ee, Aa, CrCr. She has not been tested for silver, though I may have that test run - since it's possible on either side there could be a hidden silver gene.

The resulting filly, Jynx, is a buckskin tobiano. We know that she should look like this - Ee, A?, nCr, nT. She appears VERY LIGHT buckskin in her foal coat. This was a surprise and we can't wait to see what color she sheds out to be... Because her black is "definite", I really doubt she carries a silver gene.

Toro as a foal and then just before turning 5 yrs of age -

11apr26mcolt962.jpg
16may7toro1539.jpg


Kechi as a 2 yr old and then at 6.5 yr old -

11sep25ke319.jpg
16feb27ke165146.jpg


and Jynx - on 13 May, still wet after birth & then on 28 June (in the water).

16may13keFilly1559.jpg
16jun28jynx1801u.jpg


We have no need to test her for red/black or tobiano - but would test her for bay and possibly silver (IF her dam tests positive)... That way we will know, definitively what she'd produce in our future if we use her for breeding. Right now, crossed on either of our two stallions - we know we could get a bay, black, buckskin, chestnut or palomino. Bred to either of our stallions, all foals will be tobiano and some could be homozygous for tobiano. Of course, could just breed her and wait, once she's old enough.
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paintponylvr

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Why would you test for bay? Just to see if she's homozygous for it?
Yes, I would prefer to know if every foal she produces - someday - will be bay "based" or carry a bay gene if a "ee"... One of our stallions is homozygous for bay, and I don't know if I'd breed that way or not. Would depend on how she matured - and then, too, since he's already proving to put a fantastic and nice, friendly personality on his babies, may go that way because this filly is already so like her "over reactive" dam - it's amazing.

Then, too, our program is changing a bit. May never breed her, even though we plan on retaining her. We'll have to see, but the market for small ponies is tough right now, and while I have a lot more acreage than I used to have, it's not enough to support them w/o lots of supplemental hay/feed. 30 head at the moment is stretching us a bit more than I like to be stretched, LOL... 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other - my hours were cut by almost 1/2. Now have lots less $$ to get things done BUT was always so tired before that getting ponies worked, while also doing all the necessary projects of building/settling was hard... Oh well. Eventually, I'll manage to make it meet in the middle nicely again -
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paintponylvr

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I never realized just how much our daughters did when they were so little and so involved! And then we'd have pre-teen kids spend weekends over. The boys didn't usually spend the night (a few times we did boys in the living room on the floor) - kids were put to work on the properties. They groomed, bathed, led, did obstacle & trailer work, rode (the big horses), did some lounging/ground driving. Picked up manure, helped clean out the barn, rebuilt walls and fences...

Need about 5 good working teens right now...
 

paintponylvr

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Chamomile -

In 2009, when I made a big shetland purchase to get back into the Shets, I bought a colt at the side of my silver mare. Had no idea/clue what color he was - he, too was born a "palomino". His dam tested homozygous silver, heterozygous black and his sire was a cremello (also sire "Kechi" the cremello mare above).

When these pics snapped, we didn't know what color he was or that his dam had two silver genes (giving him a silver automatically). He was born in late June (I think, now I have to find a copy of his papers). The head shot taken on 22 September, the day after arriving in NC from IA. That was the first of several baths! Nasty mud and cockle burrs, LOL.

09sep22kr613.jpg


09oct17kr962.jpg


28 April 2010 - 18 days after his 1st body clip. Looks palomino? I want to say he is 10 months old here.

10apr27kr196.jpg


13 June 2010 -

10jun13kr172.jpg


His winter coat in 2010/2011 was almost white (again). My pony girlfriend purchased him in Mar/April 2011 and she has pics of him for a while. Then I had him color tested - it was driving both of us crazy!!! Even though I'd had him gelded, I just wanted to know what color he really was, LOL. Ee, Aa, nCr, nZ. So he is a silver buckskin.

Here's what he looks like as a mature boy! My pics taken at Vicki's farm.

15apr28kr183711.jpg


15nov14kr144629.jpg
 

paintponylvr

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Then there is this mare. I've not had her color tested yet, but pretty sure she is a silver buckskin. She produced a palomino colt by a chestnut stallion in 2012. She hasn't had any other foals yet.

taff1.jpg
taff21.jpg


She is deeply related to Kreature and is only 1 year older. She is the granddaughter of our "Bell" mare - the one homozygous for silver. Don't have a picture of her dam - papers say she is silver (she's out of "Bell" homozygous for silver; sired by Pagasus - a dark silver stallion who was sired by Captains Showman so is heterozygous black). Her sire is Captain's Showman. Really wonder, with the number of silver buckskins and buckskins that Henry had "pop up", if "Showman" carries a bay gene. Or it might be that some of the foals may have been sired by different stallions - I'm not sure and I don't know all of the stallions that Henry utilized...

CaptainsShowman.jpg


"Taff" again - yes, her legs are disgustingly nasty - that is NC mud!! LOL... Jan 2013

13jan27taf617.jpg


June 2013 -

13jun8taf235.jpg


16feb19taf172615.jpg


I need to get some pics of her now that she is shed off. She is kind of light gold with red/brown/flaxen tints in her "hogged" mane. Later this fall, she should look like a "Trojan Horse" as her mane grows out...
 
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paintponylvr

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How is Zorro looking now?

OK, got some pics of our silver bay gelding that looks like a chestnut. He is homozygous for black and tobiano, 1 bay gene and 1 silver gene. Except for right up between his ears, his mane is white and he has very little flax in his tail.

16jul31dan112013.jpg


16jul31dan112015.jpg


and the mare I'm pretty certain is silver buckskin (will be getting her tested).

16jul25taf085710.jpg


16jul25taf085657.jpg
 

Magic Marker Minis

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She is a buckskin pinto, possible homozygous. The spots are called paw prints and sometimes mean the horse is homozygous. Meaning, if bred when older, she would produce a pinto everytime. Even if bred to a solid colored stallion.

She is very cute.
 

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