"with her sire and dam, she couldn't be bay unless her sire is a silver bay pinto instead of a sorrel pinto, much made mistake"
I agree
"As for the palomino, the horse in my avatar is without a doubt palomino and both his sire and dam are black. The dam carries the red gene as her dam was palomino which means she did get the creme gene as well making her smokey black. Lord help us, don't you just love the color of minis LOL."
This one is more fun. Your palomino is two red based genes and one cream gene. So
BOTH of her black parents carry one red gene and one black gene each.... And because your girl is a palomino that means that one or both of the parents carries a cream gene... meaning that at least one of them is a smokey black instead of a black, really easy for creme gene to hide on a black horse so misidentified really often. Because the dam is out of a palomino yes its probably her.
"how does a bay tovero lwo +and a palomino pinto produce a black tobiano?!?!"
Easy really. I will just cover the base color issue and leave the pinto markings to someone else. The bay has at least one black gene which makes the base black, with an Agouti gene which turns the black to bay. the Palomino is is two red genes which make horse red and then a cream gene which turns it palomino. The black foal got a red gene from the palomino parent and a black gene from the bay parent. In this case the bay parent did not pass the Agouti gene to the foal and so the black did not change to bay. And if the foal is actually black and not smokey black then that means the palomino parent did not pass on the creme gene to this foal. Yes I do know that this can be confusing but lots of fun once you figure it out.
I think the easiest way to figure it out is this.
A red horse has two red genes. It will always throw a red gene into the mix.
A black horse can have either...
-Two black genes making it homozygous for black. This horse can only have black based foals because it will always throw a black gene which always takes over the red gene.
-One red and one black gene making it heterozygous for black. This horse can have red or black based colors depending on what you breed it to and which gene it throws on that particular foal.
WOW was that long enough??