Can soneone do a lookup for me?

Discussion in 'Miniature Horse Forum' started by mini horse mania, Jun 30, 2012.

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  1. Jun 30, 2012 #1

    mini horse mania

    mini horse mania

    mini horse mania

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    She is ghe dam to two of my mares..she is amhr...Double aa Ginger II...i wanted to know what foals she has had and if anyone could find a picture of her.on my horses papers where color would be it says VHP...anyone know what that means? Thanks [​IMG]
     
  2. Jul 26, 2012 #2

    mini horse mania

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    Can anyone help me on this...none if my friends have a clue either...her parents were stouts apple jack...sorrel pinto..and her dam double aa little ginger was a palomino..thanks!!
     
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  3. Jul 26, 2012 #3

    minimomNC

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    I can't find a picture of her, but I would guess her color is sorrel pinto. Three of her foals are pinto, two bay and one sorrel. The fourth is solid palomino. Her sire is sorrel pinto and dam is palomino. So while I am not sure, I would say sorrel pinto.






    AMHR - 100710B DOUBLE A.A. GINGER II




    Sex: MARE Color: VHP Height: 35.50" Mane & Tail: LIGHT Date Foaled: 04/21/1995 Markings (1): STAR, STRIP & SNIP; Date Registered: 05/05/1999 Markings (2): LEFT FRONT & LEFT REAR SOCKS, Current Owner: JOHN HUGHES, IV Markings (3): RIGHT FRONT & RIGHT REAR STOCKINGS; Breeder: ARNOLD AKERS Markings (4):


    [​IMG]




    Click on any of the progeny to view it's details and pedigree.





     
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  4. Jul 26, 2012 #4

    JAX

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    IF (and thats a big if) her parents are really sorrel and palomino, then she has to have a base color of sorrel or palomino, there would be no other options. LOL but we all know how messed up it can be when the parents are not really what they are registered as. [​IMG]

    Were her pinto foals sired by solid stallions or pintos? That might help you... maybe
     
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  5. Jul 27, 2012 #5

    minimomNC

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    All of her foals are sired by pinto stallions, so yes, she could be either pinto or solid, but with the markings listed for her face and legs, she is genitically a pinto. Socks on both left feet and stockings on both right, star, strip snip on her face. I don't get the mistake with the letters, my first thought was bad typo for bay but with her sire and dam, she couldn't be bay unless her sire is a silver bay pinto instead of a sorrel pinto, much made mistake. As for the palomino, the horse in my avatar is without a doubt palomino and both his sire and dam are black. The dam carries the red gene as her dam was palomino which means she did get the creme gene as well making her smokey black. Lord help us, don't you just love the color of minis LOL.
     
  6. Jul 27, 2012 #6

    mini horse mania

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    Wow thanks.this is tvfs made in america off of lucky four medicine man..and that mare..how does a bay tovero lwo +and a palomino pinto produce a black tobiano?!?!

    2012-07-26 15.53.33.jpg
     
  7. Jul 27, 2012 #7

    mini horse mania

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    And here is lil miss chessie mae off that mare and cherjoes halfpint

    2012-07-26 15.55.44.jpg
     
  8. Jul 27, 2012 #8

    minimomNC

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    Ok, my first try at this so I could very well be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, thats for sure. The bay pinto sire could be homozygous for black since bay is a black based color, the dam is palomino so does carry the creme gene plus pinto thus making your mare a smokey black tovero. The only way to find out for sure is testing. And the second mare while looking sorrel could be silver bay because of the dark but not black look of her tail. With very little color on her legs, you wouldn't see the usual smoky look where it would be black on a bay horse. Again, this is just guessing, I don't do the color thing very well, but it does interest me alot.
     
  9. Jul 27, 2012 #9

    mini horse mania

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    The second mare does have a wierd patch on the other side..in the middle of the sorrel..its a black...dark bay rub the size of your hand.
     
  10. Jul 27, 2012 #10

    JAX

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    "with her sire and dam, she couldn't be bay unless her sire is a silver bay pinto instead of a sorrel pinto, much made mistake"

    I agree

    "As for the palomino, the horse in my avatar is without a doubt palomino and both his sire and dam are black. The dam carries the red gene as her dam was palomino which means she did get the creme gene as well making her smokey black. Lord help us, don't you just love the color of minis LOL."

    This one is more fun. Your palomino is two red based genes and one cream gene. So BOTH of her black parents carry one red gene and one black gene each.... And because your girl is a palomino that means that one or both of the parents carries a cream gene... meaning that at least one of them is a smokey black instead of a black, really easy for creme gene to hide on a black horse so misidentified really often. Because the dam is out of a palomino yes its probably her.

    "how does a bay tovero lwo +and a palomino pinto produce a black tobiano?!?!"

    Easy really. I will just cover the base color issue and leave the pinto markings to someone else. The bay has at least one black gene which makes the base black, with an Agouti gene which turns the black to bay. the Palomino is is two red genes which make horse red and then a cream gene which turns it palomino. The black foal got a red gene from the palomino parent and a black gene from the bay parent. In this case the bay parent did not pass the Agouti gene to the foal and so the black did not change to bay. And if the foal is actually black and not smokey black then that means the palomino parent did not pass on the creme gene to this foal. Yes I do know that this can be confusing but lots of fun once you figure it out.

    I think the easiest way to figure it out is this.

    A red horse has two red genes. It will always throw a red gene into the mix.

    A black horse can have either...

    -Two black genes making it homozygous for black. This horse can only have black based foals because it will always throw a black gene which always takes over the red gene.

    -One red and one black gene making it heterozygous for black. This horse can have red or black based colors depending on what you breed it to and which gene it throws on that particular foal.

    WOW was that long enough?? [​IMG]
     
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  11. Jul 27, 2012 #11

    mini horse mania

    mini horse mania

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    The black pinto mare produced the first foal bred to a hz black pinto stalliin..the *chestnt pinto mare produced the second colt bred to the same stallion.he was born black and white...both these mares appear tobiano..ive never noticed the tail of chessie being off color..but it is!

    from what ive seen of lucky four medicine mans foals..he produces lots of sorrel medicine hats with lots of white. occassional black..but depending on the mare

    2012-07-18 14.04.01.jpg

    _facebook951178732854.jpg
     
  12. Jul 27, 2012 #12

    mini horse mania

    mini horse mania

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    Just got iff the phone with amhr...double aa ginger II is a chestnut pinto..vhp was a typo....so...a bay tovero + chestnut pinto made a black pinto?
     
  13. Jul 27, 2012 #13

    JAX

    JAX

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    "so...a bay tovero + chestnut pinto made a black pinto?"

    In my earlier LONG post ... Yep.

    It happens all the time.

    go here and have fun

    www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp

    BTW check out my avatar. Red pinto mare, Black pinto sire... Solid bay colt.
     
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