Can men and women just be friends?

[SunQuest]

wanted to add...I too have never ever had to tell my husband of 12 yrs "no you can't" when it came to anything...and he has never had to tell me no, simply because I would never even consider doing anything that would raise suspicion or hurt his feelings....I do have male friends from work and he has female friends at work...do we talk or do things with them outside of work...absolutely but it's done as a group or couple.

and remember....affairs of the heart are no different than physical affairs! If anything...they are worse!

You are so right Sonya. I think I could handle a one night stand easier than the fact that he said he loved her. It will be a scar forever on my heart.

And like you, I have NEVER told my husband what he could do or whom he could see. That is until this "other" invaded our life. It was me or her. No third wheels allowed in my marriage!!! Yep, the anger and hurt still burns.

And after this, I definately changed my mind on how I perceived this issue. At one time I would have been open minded to the idea that men and women could be just freinds. Now I say NO WAY is it apropriet for a marriage unless the two freinds are married to each other!

 

[StellaLenoir]

I hope that all is well for you and your husband is innocent. He may be truely just friends with this woman, but she may have other ideas too. I think people assume the man is the one with cheating ideas, but I know too many women that seem turned on by the idea of a married man. They seek them out and start out as friends, but they flirt or tease and try to get the man to cheat. It is like an extra bonus for them. i would meet this woman, get a feel for her yourself. You may find that you are over reacting or are being jealous or you may find you do have something to fear.

I have been insanely jealous on more than one occasion. Before my husband and I were officialy together, he very casualy dated a horible woman. She was a stripper with BIG fake boobs. We all went out one night and she showed everyone these boobs. It was so stupid, I said if he picks her, than I dont need him! After a few weeks, he relized she was kind of a gross person and he never spoke to her again. This was years and 2 kids ago. But at the time I was crazy! I still feel the little green monster when I think about her.

Now, right before my 2nd baby was born, I was insanely mad that he went to Coyoty Ugly. All I pictured was perfect women dancing around, and here I was fat and stretched out and hugely preggo. I could not handle it. That is jealousy. As I felt better about myself my jealousy let up. But it is different than what I think you are describing.

i asked my hubby too about the 12 hours, that seems weird, and coming home at midnight after being with a woman, is weird too.

As far as him wanting you two to meet. my sisters ex (thank God hes an EX) brought his women home so my sister would feel ok about them. But he slept with them all. It took her years to face reality that her husband would do that to her. They had been together since 7th grade. Not saying your husband is doing that but be carefull.

This is so hard, to walk the fine line of trusting someone, and still being comfortable in your relationship. I agree with the others that said, he should put you first, if his freindship is causing you such heart ache, it should not be worth it to him to stay such close friends with her. You should be more important. And I saw your picture on the topic Jill made I think a few weeks back, and YOU are BEAUTIFULL!!!

:

 

[just2minis]

I would say in your situation since you are not happy with the situation and he is continuing to "go flying" with her there is definately a problem !! Tell him to find another guy to go with.

If it was my husband - NO WAY !!

 

[maplegum]

I never imagined that this topic would cause such raw emotions in people. I'm very sorry to the people on this thread who have had to re-live the torture of infidelity. I woke up this morning to 7 pages of replies! It's a hot topic and I'm so thankful to all of my forum friends who replied.

Someone mentioned that they remember my husband building that sweet little barn for Bailey and supporting me in my new found hobby and interest. He gave up his plans to build a big garage/workshop, just so I could follow my own passions. All the money for his workshop went into fixing the property for my horse. So yes, my husband is supportive and NEVER questions my decisions or stops me following my dreams. BUT - the difference is, I don't choose to spend my hobby time with other men! I am a 'family girl' and nothing makes me happier being with the kids and hubby. I don't even give other men a thought! I simply would not make those choices that he has. He has already turned down another 2 flights with her as he knew the fights would start again at home, which leaves me feeling terrible and guilty.

I also feel guilty as my husband is Canadian and I'm Australian. He moved his entire life across to the other side of the world to be with me and to help raise my 2 children! He moved his life over in 2 suitcases....for me!! He left behind all his family and friends and had to make new friends all over again, which can be hard when you are in your 40's. This is what he keeps pointing out. That's one of the reasons, a very BIG reason that I feel so bad for putting up a fight. He's been here for 4 years and for the most part, we have been very happy.

I think I will make the effort to meet this girl. Have her over for dinner one night. I am sure that I will get a 'feeling' for the kind of person she is once I meet her. It's not that I don't trust my hubby, I just don't feel good about this situation. I don't get the feeling anything is going on, BUT- it opens the door to temptation.

I am still as confused as ever, and yes, I am a jealous person, with my own fair share of insecurities so it doesn't help. I'm going to try to be very brave through this one.

 

[Danielle_E.]

DH says.. men and women can't just be friends.....he has never seen it in his life. And this is coming from a Man.He says if a man is spending time with another women ...that man has something in mind be he married or not.

That is absolutely not true, sorry. As I have previously said a very close friend of mine is male, I probably spent 12 hours days with him and NOTHING was going on except the mutual passion of horses. That was it, that was all. I have more than one male friend, mind you not as close as the other but when I read statements like that I think "what the heck???"

When or if someone strays in a marriage there is usually something else going on in that marriage, the affair or whatever you want to call it is usually a product of something much deeper. Someone who is happy in their marriage and in love with their partner doesn't just wake up one day and say "hey, I think I will have an affair today". For those of you who have gone through divorces, seperations, etc. I am truly sorry for the pain you have felt but projecting your fears and hurt on the situation we are trying to help out on in here...that's not fair to the poster. I would suggest that she ask her husband if he would be willing to seek a professional in this, explaining how it is making her feel, how she is having all these thoughts of him having an affair, etc. Getting advice from people who have been hurt badly in their marriages will just conjure up all kinds of thoughts at this point which may well not be founded in anything factual and that in itself could cause the end of the marriage without anything having ever happened between her husband and this other woman. All I am saying is you need help in dealing with your anger, your jealousy and your husband needs to face what this is doing to you and TOGETHER you need to come to a willing solution. If he is not willing, then I think you have your answer and it's time to find a lawyer.

The other thing I find interesting in some of these posts is that many of you or maybe this is my perception and correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that you think you "own" the other person, that you can tell that person, well you can have this friend but not this one because it is a female or a male, whatever the case may be. I find that very "controlling" and nobody has the right to "control" another person to that extent because of THEIR insecurities without concrete foundation for taking that stand. I guess my point of view stems way back to when I was a teenager and was going out with this guy who was so jealous it was ridiculous and who tried to control me. It was a very destructive relationship and one thank God I got out of. It's not healthy in a marriage either.

 

[SWA]

I wasn't going to respond mainly because so many already have, but here goes anyways...

:

I can sort of understand both sides of this fence...yet to a degree that is. First, yes, I do believe that men and women can truly be JUST friends. I had a friendship with a guy that I grew up with, all through middle school and high school we were best buddies. Having 5 brothers, I always seemed to "relate" better with guys than I did with girls. To this day, I am always most comfortable hanging out with the "guys" in my life than I am with the girls, including my own mom and sister, who I love with all my heart and have a wonderful relationship with both. Yet, I feel more open and in my "comfort zone" when I'm around my hubby, my dad, all my brothers and any "guy" friends. I guess, from growing up with so many brothers, all the guys I grew up with always knew one brother or the other, and were always very respectful of me, some out of mutual respect and yes, some out of their fear of my FIVE brothers.

: (Needless to say, I never had a "real" date till AFTER high school ). Most the girls I grew up with, well, it always came to the point that their only motive for being "friends" with "me" was in their hopes of getting a date with any of my brothers

: so there really was never any "real" forms of female friendship throughout my teen years. Many "acquaintances", but nothing really notable as far as genuine female friendship perse'. My sister is 11 years younger than me, so in growing up we never really had much in common to bond with until much later in life after we've both become adults with families of our own, etc. Through that, we've long since bonded much closer now, and I'm thankful for that, as she's about the closest female friend I really have, even now, and I love her to pieces for that.

:

Anywas, back to gender relationships involving marriage and the "just friends" thing... My first marriage was a total fiasco. My one male friend that "I" had sinch childhood, was to both of us, nothing more than and nothing short of a brother/sister relationship. Our mutual ground was our love of horses and cows. We showed our steers toghether all through our FFA years in High School, and went horseback riding together often when we were kids growing up. BUT, then we did grow up and each to our own relationships. I was the first between us to get married, like a doofus, I married the very first guy I had a "real" date with right out of high school...we met through one of my brothers no less.

: Shortly there after, Glen also found a really great gal and they too got married. Neither of us would have ever even THOUGHT of going out and spending time with each other without either of our significant others right there along with us, let alone having actually gone anywhere. My "then" husband knew that, and so did Glen's wife.

:

My "then" husband, on the other hand, around the 3rd year of our marriage began developing newfound friendships along the way. Being the gullable trusting BLOOMING IDIOT that "I" was, I always thought nothing of it, being that I totally understood, or so I thought, because of my friendship with Glen. Little did I know...these "friendships" ALL FOUR OF THEM...(at least the 4 that I became aware of after the fact) were all little "side shows" as I call them of my THEN hubby. Each "thinking" THEY were the ONLY little "side show" of his beyond his wife, (that would be "me") they all knew full well of the "wife", but NOT "the others". Well, as THEY all became aware of one another, they each one by one, had the AUDACITY to come to me, for which I am thankful, strange as that is, and wanted to be FRIENDS with ME because THEY understood now, how "I" must have felt being the "wife" and all.

:

I told all of them, thank you very much for coming forward and telling me of YOUR little "side show", but NO THANK YOU for your "kind offer"

: of "friendship". Of course, I told them in a much more "colorful" manner... immediately followed by filing for DIVORCE!

Had it been just ONE...perhaps MAYBE I would have been STUPID enough to give him the benefit of the doubt in thinking it would never happen again, but with 4, and those were just the ones that had the guts to come forward, and I have no doubt in my mind nor heart that there were likely others. Because of that...I was pretty much DONE with THAT!!!!

Anyway... two months after my divorce I met my "now" hubby, Lee, and we married 4 months after that, and we just celebrated our 19th wedding anniversary earlier this month. He knows that he IS my "unanswered prayer", and I thank GOD every day for knowing what was to be for me and my son. My son is the ONLY part of that whole fiasco that was the blessing of it all. Then came much better for both of us. PRAISE GOD!

My friendship with Glen, to this day, still stands, but haven't actually seen him in years. He's called intermittently to tell me how he and his family are doing, and we have our 25th High School reunion next summer, and we cannot wait to see each other again. Hubby knows of him, the first few years of our marriage, Glen was very much a part of our family and often he and hubby would go off and do "guy" stuff, same as my other 5 brothers, but he since moved out of state, as did we, and we just keep in touch by phone now, if at all. But, I value his friendship dearly, and hubby is understanding of that, but NEVER would I have a notion to go off and spend time with him, without my hubby or his wife right there WITH us the WHOLE time. Thankfully, my "now" hubby does not do this either, at least not to my knowledge. Usually, if either of us do ANYTHING seperately, it's with my brothers or his.

He IS my best friend and the love of my life, and I can only hope and pray that I am his, no one else even factors in.

Just wanted to share my experience, and let you know that I hold you in prayers, and just pray that your hubby will take this newfound friendship of his into consideration of what it might really be...and I pray that he chooses MARRIAGE over FRIENDSHIP, and realizes that even though personal interests in life may differ, the Marriage and Friendship thing, should really be one in the same. Lord willing.

HUGS to you, and prayers lifted.

:

 

[LowriseMinis]

Wow. I don't think I'm cut out for this marriage business.

:

Best of luck to you and your hubby.

 

[Sonya]

Marriage is not about control...it's about respect...I have been fortunate to never have had to tell my husband "no" about something like this, but if the situation arised you bet your sweet cheeks I would...however, this has already happened to her and yes, she has a right to say no I don't want you going it upsets me and if he still goes, it certainly doesn't say much about how he feels about her feelings. It sounds like he is already realizing that his decisions have not been the best for the marriage (the marriage- number one thing here) and is starting to back off with the friendship already...as he should!

It is a hot subject...I know many people who've been hurt very badly by these situations..both men and women and children....

 

[just2minis]

You should not have to feel guilty. He moved to be with you, so what. He did that because he loves you.

This is an entirely different situation involving another woman. You have a right to be jealous.

It's your feelings we are talking about and your hubby should respect them.

 

[TriggynBluenDaisy Too]

I too have had and will continue to have many male friends in my life. I used to work in a male-dominated profession and found many of the male friends I still have to this day at that time. However spending 8 hours plus per day with them at work was more than enough. Any time after my workday was reserved for my husband and family, not to dump them so I could go out and socialize with my “buddies” some more and the ones that obviously had more than friendship in mind were given the boot long ago. I’d never keep a threat to my spouse in my life and I don’t know what some fools are thinking when they do. Maybe just an immature ego craving attention, perhaps? While hubby and I have none of the same obsessions, we do have things we like to do together despite our differences.

My husband also has many female friends with the same interests but they sure as heck do not pal around together, nor do I spend time alone with my male friends. We don’t feel the need. We easily could though, my hubby trusts me completely and I him but I wouldn’t want anyone for a moment to perceive that something could be going on. If you respect your spouse, and he you, then you both are not only considerate of each other’s feelings but also the possible fall out that your actions might bring upon the other inadvertently. It's called LOVE and that is what real marriages are made from. Few really seem understand that concept anymore, it seems to be all about themselves, what they want and what they want to do. To heck with how the other feels about it. :no:

I also think it has a lot to do with personality. If having a female friend is a new behavior for your husband you DO have reason to be suspicious and concerned. It may be completely innocent but the perception is there no matter how hard some try to dismiss it. However, if it was part of his normal nature to befriend those of the opposite sex, common interests or not, then it could be just your own personal insecurities coming out. Unfortunately, many women tend to dismiss, or let others dismiss the red flags or their intuition for them, about a situation. Nine times out of 10 gut instincts are correct and it’s when we go against them for whatever reason is what sets us up for the fall. Trust your instincts regardless the advice one way or the other here. Only you are experiencing the entire picture. You'd have a sure bet though if this were my husband we’d be having a very long talk about this very soon.

:

 

[Girrawheen]

I just have to add something here.

Danielle E you may be a exception to the rule in this situation. It sounds like you have a totally innocent relationship with your male friend. That is great.

I still firmly believe that when a married man/woman is seeking the company of the opposite sex it is fishy! Warning bells would also be sounding if my husband told me I was "insecure", and was not prepared to end the friendship knowing it was hurting me!

I also believe a little jealousy is healthy in a relationship. There is also a huge difference in being controlling and caring about your marriage.

Meeting the "other woman" is just a huge kick in the face as far as I am concerned, and why should Maplegum even have to meet her! :no:

If you want to have friends of the opposite sex (when your significant other finds it offensive) then don't get married! Marriage is about respect & commitment to each other. I guarantee that at least one of the "friendships" mentioned in this post has one party that is interesred in the other. Danielle E you truly may not be "interested" in your male friend in that way, but is he interested in you??????

:

I believe there is usually a ulterior motive behind such friendships.

I would also be very interested to know if Maplegum's husband would take her up on the offer to meet this "other woman" anyway! Is he just offering this to her to put her mind at rest? That would be a test in itself!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Who wrote the rules on friends? Since when can men and women not have a friendship without having anything more than common interests? Not every man finds every woman attractive - nor does every woman find every man to be "the one". Maybe they DO have just a friendship. You said you didn't enjoy flying and he obviously does - maybe he doesn't see her as a "woman" but rather a friend who enjoys to do something similar so he doesn't have to go alone. I'm not saying communication isn't key, but rather than accuse, how about find out everything. It seems he hasn't tried to "hide" anything and in fact has encouraged you to meet his friend. Why not take him up on it? Maybe you'll find that she is just, indeed, a friend.

Also, maybe he's just as jealous of you and your friends.

I have to say I agree with Adam here... not every person of the opposite sex is someone I want to have sex with

: Yet I can enjoy spending time with them, talking about horses or laughing or whatever

I find the harder you hold on to a relationship the quicker it tends to end and really .. if he is going to cheat on you TRUST ME he doesnt need the excuse of a friend to do it.

If you are that concerned about that (not to be mean) I think there are bigger issues then this woman if he is untrustworthy to keep it in his pants he will find any excuse for that.

 

[Charlene]

what it boils down to is simply respect for your spouse or the lack of it. so he built her a barn and indulged her hobby. big deal. my then-husband spent thousands of dollars on me. passier dressage saddle for x-mas, if i wanted a new horse, i bought a new horse. no questions asked. did i NEED 3 horses? of course not. but, it seemed to be his way of soothing his guilt. he spent a LOT of money on jewelry. i don't wear jewelry and i didn't back then. when i found receipts in his drawer while putting laundry away (how stupid can you be??), i asked what he spent 300$ on at a jewelry store. oh, it was "HER" birthday and he wanted to get her something nice. ah, well, ok. i would do a slow burn and then i'd go out and spend the same amount of money on myself.

he made a six figure income so it wasn't like i was throwing him into debt. quite the contrary, if i wanted it, i got it and i usually got it because HE bought it for me. he bought it for me because whether he wanted to admit it or not, he felt guilty because he was disrespecting our marriage.

six months after our divorce he called me and asked me to come back to him. although he would never admit to physical infidelity, he told me he knew he had hurt me terribly by his actions and he bawled like a baby. i felt nothing. i was alone and i was enjoying life for a change.

within a year of my divorce, i met my now-hubby. we have been together 11 years, every single day has been a joy. not one time in 11 years have we exchanged so much as a sour look. we are soul mates. life without him is unthinkable. so, something really good came out of "that" other situation.

:

maplegum, i wish you the very best. as has been said, follow your gut. you know this man, we do not. if you feel comfortable meeting this woman, go for it. i will say this to you though, no matter what you think you are feeling, you will go into this meeting already resenting her presence in your life so don't expect bells and whistles and finding your long-lost sister. if you can keep an open mind, you have every ounce of my admiration because you are a better woman than i!

 

[minisaremighty]

I am absolutely floored at how many of you have the opinion that women and men and vice versa are unable to be good friends (close friends) without it turning into something else.

Seems that a large number of those people you refer to developed their opinions based on personal experience. :no: It's not a cut and dried subject. Some people can, some can't, just depends on the circumstances surrounding the relationship. Enough said.

 

[REO]

maplegum, it seems that him telling you that he turned down two fly dates with her just so there would be no arguments at home, have had the desired effect. That made you feel guilty like you did something wrong (no you have not) Now you're going to try and deny your feelings and go along with it from the guilt trip that was laid on you.

Sorry, but I would have much rather if you had said that he sat down with you and told you how much he loves you and that because he loves you, he won't see her any more. That a new friendship is not worth hurting you over. That he will find a MALE friend to fly with!

The only one compromising is you. The only one putting aside their feelings to please the other is you. The one making it seem like all the strife is coming from you is him.

I have been through many games from guys and men in my life (before this hubby) and I know all the "make her feel it's her fault" BS. I'm NOT saying that that is what your hubby is doing but.....

If you sit with him, look him in the eyes and calmly explain how it makes you feel and why.... and he still turns it around to being "your" hang up instead of understanding and wanting to change things to please you, then I just don't know. Marriage takes two, not one doing all the accepting and bending.

Have you sat with him and talked to him like that? Have you asked him why he can't find a man friend to fly with?

These are my thoughts. I trust my husband but if there was a woman trying to spend time with him when HE and SHE both knew I didn't like it, all crap would break loose!

Just talk to him and I'm sure things will be fine.

:

.

 

[capall beag]

Lots of opinions!

Mine is that YES men and women can be friends BUT it depends on many factors.

I have friends who are male who I knew before I was married. They were friends, never became boyfriends for a reason, :lol: I am not attracted to them. I could spend a week with them and still wouldn't be attracted to them

: .......of course, I am not planning to!

I think you have to trust your spouse. If he wants to cheat on you he can do it anytime, anywhere.

If he is attracted to this friend I do think it is very dangerous to spend too much time in a little plane with her

:

: That definately could be a temptation waiting to happen.

Spending 12 hours with anyone is excessive IMO..even if it was a male friend! Surely he can go flying for a few hours during the day.

Tell your husband how you feel.

I really wouldn't care if my husband spent the day with a female friend. Could he be tempted, sure he could.

I think well enough of him to know that he is good guy with good intentions and a love for his family and that he would make the right choice.

If he didn't I guess je would have proven me wrong!

I am not willing to get all upset about what 'could' happen.............way too much wasted energy!

 

[Shari]

DH says.. men and women can't just be friends.....he has never seen it in his life. And this is coming from a Man.He says if a man is spending time with another women ...that man has something in mind be he married or not.

That is absolutely not true, sorry. As I have previously said a very close friend of mine is male, I probably spent 12 hours days with him and NOTHING was going on except the mutual passion of horses. That was it, that was all. I have more than one male friend, mind you not as close as the other but when I read statements like that I think "what the heck???"

Maybe for you. But both my Hubby and I have lived all over...seen a lot and he is just going by what he has personally seen.

If you have male friends...good for you.

I have a friend that obcesses about another man that is not her husband and makes me feel very uncomfortable when she keeps talking about it. Her Husband doesn't mind. But that other man's wife does care and doesn't like it and my friend is helping to drive a wedge into that other marriage.

I guess to each their own.

My DH talks with women he works with and I have no worry about it. Neither one of us feel the need to spend time with the other genders.

We do not control each other... but what we do, is deeply respect each other and would never do anything that would cause each to doubt one another. We are a family and act as such because it is the way we are.

So your what the heck....is rather confusing. As I said...and none of this was pointed at you originally... but if you want or have male friends that is your choice. But you have to respect what other people have seen. All my hubby and I can talk about is what we have seen over the years.

As for the original issue.... I would not feel guilty about your DH moving from another country maplegum. My Husband and I are from different worlds.. he grew up in the UK....and I am west/Eastcoast and Canadian...needless to say we both come from many different areas. Both sides of our family live all over the world.

One of my friends was born in Denmark... raised part time in Australia... now lives in the US and has an Irish born husband!

:

Nor should you feel gulity about asking him to spend time with you...you are a family after all.

<hugs> and best of luck to you!

 

[susanne]

Of course men and women can be friends.

What bothers me about your husband's friendship is that If he truly considers this woman a friend, he would want you to like and respect her and would bend over backwards to avoid anything that made you uncomfortable or caused you to think badly of her.

most of my best friends have been male. I told Keith this when we were first dating, and let him know that I do not give up close friends, male or female, for boyfriends. This holds true for husbands as well.

I grew up with 3 brothers and was quite a tomboy, and then have played in bands and various musical ensembles where I was often the only female. I never looked at men as potential dates...I have always viewed them as potential friends/brothers. These friendships are always and have always been based upon mutual respect. It is quite obvious when a man is thinking something other than platonic friendship, and those are not candidates for friendship.

I love my husband beyond all words, and I love my friends dearly. It is of utmost importance to me that my husband and my friends get along, and almost always, my friends become his friends, and vice versa.

Keith would never dream of asking me to give up a friend, and I would never ask it of him, but we are so closely attuned that I would question my choice of a friend if he didn't like one of them. I would assume that he was picking up on something that I somenow had missed.

It would bother me terribly if he did not like one of my friends, or worst of all, if something I did, said or implied made him not like one of them.

Love, friendship, and marriage are all about respect, integrity and conerns for the feelings of others. He is not being a great husband OR a great friend with his actions.

 

[maplegum]

So you dislike his activity - you mentioned it to him. Hypothetically, then, if you expect him to drop his flying habit since you dislike it, are you then willing to walk away from something he dislikes. There are a lot of men showing horses these days - be careful what you wish for. If he DOES give up flying and then asks you to stop with the horses, be prepared to send them packing. It is INDEED a two way street.

I think we are talking about two completely different issues here.

My love of horses never compromises my marriage. There is NO other man involved. I don't show, I only have a backyard pet. If he felt uncomfortable with me being out with another male, I sure as heck would put a stop to it. My husband is my 1st priority but it seems that I am not his.

What bothers me most is his lack of compassion and understanding for the way I feel. It's like I don't have any say in the matter. If he stops seeing her, it will be at the expense of our marriage. It will always be held against me and bought up in conversation time and time again, almost rubbing my face in it.

 

[HGFarm]

Interesting reaction by him about it..... I wouldnt ask him to give up flying. Just flying with her. Sounds like he is awfully defensive and good at making you the guilty party in all things. When you feel bad and guilty, it lets him off the hook. And also is supposed to make you feel badly about questioning his motives. Hmmmmmm