Can I please ask for a critique?

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Roxy's Run

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I would really appreciate an honest critique on my three year old boy. He is still a stallion (though I have no intentions of using him for breeding at this time). He is AMHR registered and around 34". I have him listed for sale at $900 o/b/o and have received numerous inquiries and many compliments on him, but no sale. So could you please point out to me his good points but most importantly, his bad points? Oh, and to set things straight ahead of time, I do want to have him gelded but for reasons that I will not go into here (no fault to him), this is not an option at this time. Thanks for any honest opinions about him.

Linda

Roxy's Run Miniatures

These pictures were taken today - Sept. 29, 2007

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Well I sure do like the looks of that colt and think he is priced quite low for the quality he is. What a wonderful show gelding he would be! He has a nice length and set to his neck, he has substantial hindquarters, and nice legs from the side anyway. Nice shoulder and pretty "look at me" color. His head is a little on the plainish side, but hey! For $900 I think he is very well priced. I bet he moves nicely too, based on his conformation.
 
I personally think he is very pretty -- love his coloring and think that he would be a good addition to anyone's herd -- I am sure if you wait someone will pay what you are asking
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Thank you Amy. I really appreciate it. His legs are straight both in front and behind. He is not cow hocked or anything like that. He has a beautiful trot - at least I think he does, anyway.
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: Here is a picture of him on the move taken today also. Not the most clear, but he was running all around with his sire when he thought I was finished with the photo shoot. :bgrin

Linda

Roxy's Run Miniatures

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Thank you DGR Minis. I really wanted to show him at the NJ Bred show a couple of weeks ago, but I had to work at the yearling sale for my job which happened to be at the same place as the NJ Bred show. Talk about jealous!!! There I was right there and couldn't show my guy! :eek:

But back to the point of my post. I think a big fault with this little guy is not his conformation but he has "no pedigree" so to say. He doesn't have the "big" names in his family and I truly think this hurts him even though he may be a good contender in the ring. Or is he?

Linda

Roxy's Run Miniatures
 
Very nice colt! I'm not fond of white faces, but other than that he is what I look for in a driving horse.
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He's a nice little guy. I love his color and I've always been a fan of that type of head, I don't know why. I just think it's adorable. What I don't like about him is that his hindquarters appear to be on the weak side and his loin coupling looks very long and very weak. Because of that his hind legs will probably have trouble tracking up well under his body and it will be very difficult for him to round his back and collect up for show ring driving or jumping. He really is adorable though and might do well at obstacle classes as well as being someone's best friend.

Leia
 
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Linda, he is NICE!! He sure is a "showy/flashy" little guy. Unfortunately I have noticed around my area (southern NJ) that there are not very many miniature horses, therefore the market is very low here. And if you go to the sale, the prices are rediculously low. I'm wondering if it's the area you're networking him in. Have you tried to list him on the sales page here on LB? Maybe branch out towards PA, DE and NY?
 
Wow Leia, this is one time I think we are in disagreement! I actually think he has a rather nice hindquarter for a mini!
 
I think he could have a stronger hip he is a bit "front heavy and he is a bit more heavy boned then not but that said I think he will make an adorable gelding and I am sure some kid would LOVE to have him
 
ClickMini said:
Wow Leia, this is one time I think we are in disagreement! I actually think he has a rather nice hindquarter for a mini!
Hehe. Well, it could just be the photo angle but his loin really does look sort of hollow on top to me and that's one of my pet peeves, being a performance junky. I like him, don't get me wrong! But she did ask for a critique and to me that's a likely weakness in this horse. I'd like to see some other moving photos, or a side shot of him taken from lower to the ground and against a solid colored background. It would help me tell if it was just a trick of the light and his color or if he's really built that way. We all know that photos can be misleading, especially when it comes to movement!

Leia
 
I am often hesitant to offer a 'critique' on threads like this, for the very reason noted...that photos, especially ones that don't have the horse standing square, in good lighting, on a good solid surface, and taken at the horse's level(for starters!)are very 'iffy' to use as the basis for such!

With that caveat--this is a flashy, eye-catching little horse. I do agree with Leia's assessment of a weak loin/coupling, and too long a back-you want it 'short' between withers and loin, and 'long' between elbow and stifle/flank--he appears long in both areas. It appears to me, also, that the horse may be somewhat sickle-hocked, which could definitely interfere with the ability to get up under himself as well as one would want. He is just a bit lacking in overall 'refinement'--just a bit 'heavier' all over than I would like. (and on a strictly personal note--though I am fine with the kind of head he has, I just really don't care for pink skin around the eyes!) He has a bit of a dropping-off croup. I think the length from point of hip to point of buttock is OK; however, I find the 'breeching' area a bit weak, and the hocks a bit coarse, in addition to the percieved sickle-hock connection....

Overall, though...with that flashy color, I have no doubt this little guy would have wide appeal as a gelding, who would likely make a wonderful companion, and in-hand horse to show, especially for a youth or amateur!

Margo
 
I would agree that this fellow is a bit heavier boned than some would like, but as a driving gelding I don't see that as a conformation fault. I don't care for all the white on the head, but that is just my preference. I disagree completely that this horse has a long back. His shoulder is long & quite nicely laid back, with a good wither (better than many Minis have, by far!) and I do find that when they look at a horse with a long shoulder many people are fooled into thinking the back is long, just because the horse looks long overall. If you break the horse into thirds, this horse is not long from wither to loin.
 
Thank you everyone for your responses. I am finding this extremely interesting. I am sure learning alot. Thank you.

Here are some more "action" pics of him trotting. These are taken in succession one right after the other by the camera. I hope these will help you see his hind end movement better. Please let me know your comments. Again, I am learning so much. Thank you.

I have also attached a pic of his hocks for your opinion.

Linda

Roxy's Run Miniatures

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The other side:

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I still think he is really nice. This photo shows a lot of scope with his front end, what I would expect with his shoulder.

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In this photo he is showing a clear overstep:

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He has very good angles from behind. In some of the early photos he appeared sickle hocked from the side because he was so rocked back...when he stands normally is there a straight line from the point of his buttocks running down the back of his rear cannons? Or do his cannons angle forward under him when he stands at rest? I had the opinion that the photos were taken at a moment when he was rocking back, but maybe he is slightly sickle-hocked. He does appear to travel a bit heavy in front, but that could definitely be improved with training. I still think he would be a great performance prospect!

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I could totally see him being a very cute driving horse!

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Of course, more can be seen with more photos. The horse does not look as (possibly)sickle-hocked as in a couple of the earlier photos; he appears to me to have an "OK" slope of shoulder, not an extraordinary one, though. I still see him as a bit long , and therefore a bit weak, through the coupling/loin--I will admit it might not be by much, though, based on being able to see 'more' of him. He certainly isn't cowhocked! However, I note that he is wider at the 'top' than at the breeching(stifle)area as seen from behind--this is very common in minis, and is what I was referring to in my previous post...I want to see any breed of horse be at LEAST as 'wide'(due to muscling)at the breeching(stifle)as they are at the 'top'(points of the hips). I also see something I 'suspected' in the earlier photos--that his neck is 'set on' somewhat low, appearing almost to arise from between his front legs--there is a bit of definition, but not enough, IMO. He appears to be,like many miniatures, an average mover...not particularly 'scopy',IMO. Again, this is very typical of (I believe)the majority of miniature horses, and certainly would not 'disqualify' him from being driven-nor doing other performance activities. He is what I would call a 'cobby' type--overall, reasonably well-balanced, and fairly compact, except for being a tad long through the coupling. He is not a horse I would consider breeding, but then, he is being discussed as a gelding prospect---and should make quite a decent little gelding, all things considered.

It needs to be remembered that there are NO perfectly conformed horses; deviations from the 'ideal' can be found in ALL horses, period. Some deviations have little to no effect on the horse's action and abilities, others could have more effect--and occasionally, you see a horse that is athletic IN SPITE OF, or even 'with the probable help of', a MODERATE conformational deviation!

Margo
 
I agree with Amy he would make a nice driving horse. I would not post a picture of my gelding for you guys to critique as you would NOT like his conformation as he is sickle hocked has a large head and not the greatest conformation. That said he is a three time national champion driving horse and a hall of fame halter horse. Lisa Singer [the pairs driver] loved him in her clinic and had nothing but praise for his driving ability. Some of the very best performance horses do not have the greatest of conformation but they do have the heart and the presence and substance which this horse appears to have. The only way to figure that out is to break him to drive and find out.
 
A lack of pedigree doesnt matter on a gelding.... papers dont perform! I like this horse. I think driving him will strengthen his rear. On the 1 pic he looks high in the butt but not the other so I tend to think its the pic not the horse. I love his length of neck and placement and his color. I think he is worth more than 900 if you geld him and promote him as a flashy show gelding you will get more for him.

Im with Amy Lacy, I like this horse!

Lyn
 
Thank you everyone. This has been such a learning experience for me. I'm glad that the additional pictures were a big help. I will definitely look into getting him gelded which has been my plan all along and I will get it done eventually. It is so expensive to have done here in NJ. But I know this is something I should do. Thanks again.

Linda

Roxy's Run Miniatures
 
Margo_C-T said:
It needs to be remembered that there are NO perfectly conformed horses; deviations from the 'ideal' can be found in ALL horses, period. Some deviations have little to no effect on the horse's action and abilities, others could have more effect--and occasionally, you see a horse that is athletic IN SPITE OF, or even 'with the probable help of', a MODERATE conformational deviation!
Margo

Fred said:
I would not post a picture of my gelding for you guys to critique as you would NOT like his conformation as he is sickle hocked has a large head and not the greatest conformation. That said he is a three time national champion driving horse and a hall of fame halter horse. ... Some of the very best performance horses do not have the greatest of conformation but they do have the heart and the presence and substance
:aktion033: Well said, you two! :worshippy: As someone who owns a sickle-hocked, large-headed, cow-hocked, excellent-minded driving mini who has a heart bigger than he is, I agree!
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: And Roxy, my guy has no pedigree either and I happily paid $800 for him and then another $250 to have him gelded. Geld your colorful boy and drive him, my dear! I'm sure he'll enjoy the driving as much as his owner.

Leia
 
Thank you Lyn, Leia, Fred, Click Mini. You have no idea how much I appreciate your comments. With all of your accomplishments in the mini horse world, I am honored that you all like my guy and have inspired me to try to get out there and break him to drive. Which, to be honest, was never a thought with him. But now with the cooler weather and your encouragement, I will try to find the time to start him with the basics for now. I also will speak to a vet tomorrow about gelding him and take things from there. Thanks again. You guys are the best!!!!

Linda

Roxy's Run Miniatures
 

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