TrinityFarm
Member
Parm, Ive seen pics of Corona and hes nice so take this advice and be downright MEAN! tell her no way uh-uh never!!
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nootka
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You are so great to keep trying, and all that you've done. YOU are making a difference with YOUR decision as well as your example.
Too bad it always seems to be the smaller breeders that put their money where their mouth is.
I agree with the "minimal vs. actual dwarf" comments.
It is what it is.
I had a filly here that had characteristics. To me, she IS a dwarf and that's why she was sold as a pet only. Her disposition was sweet and she was basically sound, but she would have or very well could have produced another dwarf. Even if they're "minimally afflicted" (my choice of words because it implies much more than just minimal) they are unsuitable for show and likely have issues themselves let alone an awful prognosis as a breeding animal.
It's preventable to a degree, and yet I see some people making the same mistakes over and over. It's clear that most don't really and truly understand proportion how it relates to dwarfism.
Good luck and let me know if there's anything I can do to help. I'm sorry that this other person doesn't understand the moral implications of breeding a severely afflicted animal (doesn't matter if mom or dad is mildly afflicted, they can still have one that is severe), let alone the other issues that one tends to think of in relation to people that are only motivated by $$$.
Liz M.
Too bad it always seems to be the smaller breeders that put their money where their mouth is.
I agree with the "minimal vs. actual dwarf" comments.
It is what it is.
I had a filly here that had characteristics. To me, she IS a dwarf and that's why she was sold as a pet only. Her disposition was sweet and she was basically sound, but she would have or very well could have produced another dwarf. Even if they're "minimally afflicted" (my choice of words because it implies much more than just minimal) they are unsuitable for show and likely have issues themselves let alone an awful prognosis as a breeding animal.
It's preventable to a degree, and yet I see some people making the same mistakes over and over. It's clear that most don't really and truly understand proportion how it relates to dwarfism.
Good luck and let me know if there's anything I can do to help. I'm sorry that this other person doesn't understand the moral implications of breeding a severely afflicted animal (doesn't matter if mom or dad is mildly afflicted, they can still have one that is severe), let alone the other issues that one tends to think of in relation to people that are only motivated by $$$.
Liz M.
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Sue_C.
Well-Known Member
:aktion033: :aktion033: I agree...do NOT breed either of this woman's mares...it does your reputation no good. and yeah...definately remind yourself not to buy from, or recommend this other breeder who IS going to breed this dwarf.
Now...for this...I crawl into my flamesuit...
Why is it then, that nobody will breed to a dwarf, (rightiously so!) yet, many WILL breed a horse again, that has produced a dwarf.
Genetically speaking, aren't the chances of producing another dwarf not the same, from a true dwarf...and a dwarf gene carrier?
Honestly...what IS the difference?
:
Now...for this...I crawl into my flamesuit...
Why is it then, that nobody will breed to a dwarf, (rightiously so!) yet, many WILL breed a horse again, that has produced a dwarf.
Genetically speaking, aren't the chances of producing another dwarf not the same, from a true dwarf...and a dwarf gene carrier?
Honestly...what IS the difference?
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nootka
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Sue_C, I sure don't know the answer to that question other than I know that there are quite a few breeders out there that believe that ALL miniature horses carry the gene (then why isn't it so prevalent in actual Shetlands...it isn't, is it?), and so it's "ok" to breed the ones that HAVE had dwarfs.
I personally don't think so. Most often I can see why they had a dwarf in the proportions of the parents. Sometimes one parent looks normal but the other has what might be called "minimal" or one or two characteristics.
I don't know how or why of all of it, but I truly hope we get a test for those of us that really care about this issue. Even if it were determined that all carried it (I HIGHLY doubt this), I would imagine there would be ways of testing to avoid a dwarf birth. I hope so.
IMO, though, it would be useless to some because they sell to other uneducated (as in the implications of dwarfism as well as what it looks like) as well as those in denial and do just fine.
Liz M.
I personally don't think so. Most often I can see why they had a dwarf in the proportions of the parents. Sometimes one parent looks normal but the other has what might be called "minimal" or one or two characteristics.
I don't know how or why of all of it, but I truly hope we get a test for those of us that really care about this issue. Even if it were determined that all carried it (I HIGHLY doubt this), I would imagine there would be ways of testing to avoid a dwarf birth. I hope so.
IMO, though, it would be useless to some because they sell to other uneducated (as in the implications of dwarfism as well as what it looks like) as well as those in denial and do just fine.
Liz M.
L
Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis
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I have to admit I was thinking the same thing - now I did justify my own actions by breeding a mare who had a dwarf and i will NEVER do it again... it was simply that my trying to justify my actions with reasoning that seemed to "fit what I wanted to hear ":Why is it then, that nobody will breed to a dwarf, (rightiously so!) yet, many WILL breed a horse again, that has produced a dwarf.
Genetically speaking, aren't the chances of producing another dwarf not the same, from a true dwarf...and a dwarf gene carrier?
Honestly...what IS the difference?:
nootka
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I would guess we've all been guilty of similar reasoning to a degree. I know I have. The one mare that had the little filly I am referring to had an underbite (less than a half tooth) and a domish head. She wasn't badly conformed other wise though in hindsight she DID have a large frame for her height (which I think is a "characteristic" esp. when combined with others).
Sounds like these people the OP is referring to are really guilty of justifying their lame-brain thinking. I hate to say that I don't see where any amount of effort towards education will help, though I understand Parmela wanting to try.
Hopefully more people will stand for the "right thing" in the long term, but in light of $$ being involved and people being people, I am cynical.
It IS all about making a living, after all, for some. Not to say that all who are doing this for business are doing the wrong thing, it's just that you combine a certain type with these situations and they will always go for the money and not look at the other sides of the coin (even when, in the long run, they may LOSE money because of their actions).
Liz
I think you are doing the right thing by not breeding either and thinking of the breed, your reputation and not settling to 'breed down' to a lower level, rather than striving for the best quality, which I know you are.
Good for you- I would explain why to her and hey, don't mind being the 'bad guy' if that's what it turns out to be, because you are absolutely RIGHT in your decision.
Good for you- I would explain why to her and hey, don't mind being the 'bad guy' if that's what it turns out to be, because you are absolutely RIGHT in your decision.
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S
StarRidgeAcres
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Not that this is going to surprise any of you, but the owner of the two mares isn't responding to my emails or phone messages anymore! :new_shocked: And her two mares are STILL at my place! 
What have I gotten myself into??? :no:
I think what did it was I emailed her an invoice totalling what she owned me so far. I've heard NOTHING since. And now I'm actually starting to become attached to the appy mare.
What have I gotten myself into??? :no:I think what did it was I emailed her an invoice totalling what she owned me so far. I've heard NOTHING since. And now I'm actually starting to become attached to the appy mare.
Here you can file a 'feed lien' through the sherriff's office or someone---- check in your area to see what the requirements are to do that. They will be given a short time frame to pay you (I would take CASH ONLY) and if they dont, the horses are yours.
Do you have her mailing address? I would send her a certified letter, advising how much is owed and state when it needs to be paid by and the horses need to be picked up by such and such a date. Make sure your letter is thorough and you may want to even give a breakdown on a summary of the charges- board is how much per day, for how many days, etc.... for two horses...... Check it and double check it so that it is all covered.
I would also state that if not paid in cash by what ever date you decide and the horses are not picked up by that date, that you will proceed with a 'feed lien' or whatever it is that you can do in your state, and that daily board fees will continue until the date that either the horses are picked up and the board paid in FULL in cash, or they become yours.
What is the matter with people??!!
:
Do you have her mailing address? I would send her a certified letter, advising how much is owed and state when it needs to be paid by and the horses need to be picked up by such and such a date. Make sure your letter is thorough and you may want to even give a breakdown on a summary of the charges- board is how much per day, for how many days, etc.... for two horses...... Check it and double check it so that it is all covered.
I would also state that if not paid in cash by what ever date you decide and the horses are not picked up by that date, that you will proceed with a 'feed lien' or whatever it is that you can do in your state, and that daily board fees will continue until the date that either the horses are picked up and the board paid in FULL in cash, or they become yours.
What is the matter with people??!!
S
StarRidgeAcres
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I do have her mailing address and the certified letter is an AWESOME idea! I will start putting it together tonight plus I'll make a list of the dates/times I've arealdy tried to contact her via email and phone.
This is unbelieveable! :no:
mad for mini's
Well-Known Member
I can't believe the nerve of some people , incredible ! I would definitely be contacting authorities . If you have an animal rescue agency or animal control , I would be calling them to see what you can do . What if she shows up to get her mares and refuses to pay you anything?
S
StarRidgeAcres
Guest
Honestly, I'd really be OK with that. At this point I just want the whole situation to be over. She gave me $200 as a deposit on the breeding, but nothing toward board, feed, etc. The check cleared my bank a month ago so I at least have that. It probably doesn't cover everything because I've wormed and vaccinated these mares, I had their feet done and I've had the one cultured. Plus I've been giving them quality feed and they don't even look like the same horses they did a month ago. It's amazing how quickly these little guys can rebound if they're just given proper care.
Thanks for all the offers of help, etc. I am going to make some decisions tonight and stick to them. I'm lacking a proper backbone for some reason in this case and I'm not sure why. I normally don't have any trouble speaking my mind or stopping people from walking on me. Something just isn't right with this and I don't know if it's deep down I'm concerned for what their lives are going to be like when they go back home and at least at my place I know they're getting basic care.
I know I can't save them all and these horses belong to someone else. I have no control over the decisions their owner makes.
Thanks for listening.
S
StarRidgeAcres
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Sorry, just realized that many things happened between my last post last year and today. I bred the appy mare to a stallion I owned at the time. I'd hoped it was satisfy her and she'd be happy with just one baby. I did later learn that the "dwarf" didn't take so she ended up open. Thank God for that! So then here's the update:
So, the mare I bred had a colt this summer. It actually was a really, really nice colt - which totally surprised me based on the mare. She sends me a picture and tells me she has a buyer for the foal. What?! I thought she wanted this foal because she wanted to raise a baby??
So, this is the snotty email I get tonight:
The colts papers were returned unprocessed. It seems that you neglected to file your stallion report, they need you to file it and you owe a late fee. The colt is set to be delivered but I cannot until you do your paperwork that should have already been done long ago. Why would you sent me the paper if you knew that you had not filed your stallion report, does not make good sense to me. If you cost me this sale I am going to be livid. I can't put it any other way. I paid you on time and more than you had told me that it would be, this is not good business. In the alpaca world you would have caused yourself a lot of bad news. Service after stinks, I need you to fix this right away. I will be in contact with the registry.
First of all, I most certainly DID send in the stallion report. Must just be a mix up somewhere, not the first time that's happened.
But what do you guys make of the attitude from this chick? I feel like driving over there and taking that baby away! All it was to her was a SALE!
So many of you told me to get rid of her and I thought I'd be nice and try to educate and help her with her dream of having a foal. Guess I learned my lesson.
So, the mare I bred had a colt this summer. It actually was a really, really nice colt - which totally surprised me based on the mare. She sends me a picture and tells me she has a buyer for the foal. What?! I thought she wanted this foal because she wanted to raise a baby??
So, this is the snotty email I get tonight:
The colts papers were returned unprocessed. It seems that you neglected to file your stallion report, they need you to file it and you owe a late fee. The colt is set to be delivered but I cannot until you do your paperwork that should have already been done long ago. Why would you sent me the paper if you knew that you had not filed your stallion report, does not make good sense to me. If you cost me this sale I am going to be livid. I can't put it any other way. I paid you on time and more than you had told me that it would be, this is not good business. In the alpaca world you would have caused yourself a lot of bad news. Service after stinks, I need you to fix this right away. I will be in contact with the registry.
First of all, I most certainly DID send in the stallion report. Must just be a mix up somewhere, not the first time that's happened.
So many of you told me to get rid of her and I thought I'd be nice and try to educate and help her with her dream of having a foal. Guess I learned my lesson.
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ClickMini
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I am so sorry that you have to deal with this Parmela.
That being said I think I would treat her as if she had no snotty attitude at all. Do not acknowledge her threats. If it were me, I would just say, "I am sorry for the mix-up at the registry, as your horse was most definitely on the stallion report for the year. I will look into it this week and let you know." Sincerely...
Short and SWEET, try to deal with her only via email if you can so you don't get drawn into an argument. She is the type that can make your life heck as I am sure you have figured out by now. Don't get sucked into her drama.
I learned this from the absolute queen of drama, my daughter. The more you don't acknowledge her bad behavior, the better. Say as little as possible, and always polite. I know that is your nature anyway, so it should be pretty easy.
Some People!!! Sending hugs your way! (((((PARMELA)))))
Short and SWEET, try to deal with her only via email if you can so you don't get drawn into an argument. She is the type that can make your life heck as I am sure you have figured out by now. Don't get sucked into her drama.
Some People!!! Sending hugs your way! (((((PARMELA)))))
S
StarRidgeAcres
Guest
Thanks for the advice. I feel very stupid; I really made a rookie mistake with her. I should (and now would) have told her to get both of those horses back in her van and leave. I let my emotions get in the way of making a good decision. And now there is another foal out there that I'm responsible for bringing into the world and who knows what kind of life it will have.
I really screwed up on this one.
mydaddysjag
Well-Known Member
Oh my, what a mess. Do you by chance make copies of your stallion report before you send it in, so you could show it to her to prove her horse was on it?
My reply would be something like...
"I do apologize, however there must have been a mixup at the AMHR office. I did send in my stallion report, and your horse most certainly was on it. I didn't realize you were selling the foal, I thought that you were breeding the mare for a foal to keep for yourself, however i'm sure if you explain to the buyer that there is a mixup at the registry office that will be corrected as soon as possible they will understand. If you would like to contact the registry as well that would be great. Maybe if we both call them they will work faster at having this unfortunate mistake resolved for you. I do not feel that you were overcharged for the services I provided, you were charged for the stud fee and your horses expenses, which were your responsibility as the mare owner. I will contact the registry to see why they think your mare is not on my stallion report, and if there is anything else I can do for you please do not hesitate to contact me."
Telling this lady what you actually think of her is just going to have her badmouthing your farm name, and you know what they say, word of mouth is the best (or worst) advertisement.
Good luck!
My reply would be something like...
"I do apologize, however there must have been a mixup at the AMHR office. I did send in my stallion report, and your horse most certainly was on it. I didn't realize you were selling the foal, I thought that you were breeding the mare for a foal to keep for yourself, however i'm sure if you explain to the buyer that there is a mixup at the registry office that will be corrected as soon as possible they will understand. If you would like to contact the registry as well that would be great. Maybe if we both call them they will work faster at having this unfortunate mistake resolved for you. I do not feel that you were overcharged for the services I provided, you were charged for the stud fee and your horses expenses, which were your responsibility as the mare owner. I will contact the registry to see why they think your mare is not on my stallion report, and if there is anything else I can do for you please do not hesitate to contact me."
Telling this lady what you actually think of her is just going to have her badmouthing your farm name, and you know what they say, word of mouth is the best (or worst) advertisement.
Good luck!
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Urgh!!!
I think if you're anything like me, it's GOOD it was in email and not a phone call. I couldn't have kept it nice over the phone, I'd have been so slapped in the face MAD!!!
I think if you're anything like me, it's GOOD it was in email and not a phone call. I couldn't have kept it nice over the phone, I'd have been so slapped in the face MAD!!!
